The United States Is Doomed...where Do I Move To?

[Elzhi]

7 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

Don't worry!  It's just Maya making fun of us!

See, this is why I despise most new agers. Mya this, oneness that. It's such an overly simplistic viewpoint. You can't just sit around on your ass because "life is all an illusion". You need balance. 

 

18 minutes ago, Nahm said:

No leader takes power. Power is given. 

If it gets bad enough, US will use FB to demonstrate like Egypt, Spain and other countries have in recent years. Everything's aight guys. 

 

I doubt Facebook can save you from a nuclear warhead exploding outside your home. Even with that said, President Pussy Hands already wants to silence ANY and ALL opposition. Go look at his twitter. I keep saying this, but people are taking this shit WAY too lightly.

 

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

My parents are actually thrilled Donald Trump got in, and want me to move to the US now. If I had the chance, I would move to the US in no time. You keep forgetting that just because Trump is in, doesn't mean America will change that much. As a Chinese proverb stated about the differences between china and the US: "In China, you can change the policies, but you can't change the party. In the US, you can change the party, but you can't change the policies"

Trump has signed a lot of executive orders, have you noticed that he is having trouble implementing them? Because the US is clunky and resistant when it comes to policy change. 

 

Wow, I hate you so much.

 

@carlos flores I'm with you but i think it's too late for this. I don't know how much longer until everything falls apart.

 

[eskwire]

Original comment is gone. Got sucked into arguing. 

Is anyone else part of Wolf PAC? I keep putting off the orientation, partly because I'm already scattered between too many obligations and partly because I don't feel confident in it. 

Edited February 11, 2017 by eskwire

[abrakamowse]

On 2/11/2017 at 8:33 AM, Elzhi said:

See, this is why I despise most new agers. Maya this, oneness that. It's such an overly simplistic viewpoint. You can't just sit around on your ass because "life is all an illusion". You need balance. 

Balance? Balance is just a thought, you are scared of the truth. There's no "balance" when you talk about realizing yourself.

"The seer and the object seen are like the rope and the snake. Just as the knowledge of the rope which is the substrate will not arise unless the false knowledge of the illusory serpent goes, so the realization of the Self which is the substrate will not be gained unless the belief that the world is real is removed."

Ramana Maharshi

[Emerald]

On 2/11/2017 at 8:33 AM, Elzhi said:

... but people are taking this shit WAY too lightly.

I'm right there with you. I think people are assuming that America is an unsinkable ship, and that people who are cautious (like you and I) are just conspiracy theorists with tin foil helmets. They fail to recognize that this type of thing has a ton of historical precedence. It happens all the time with humanity. As far as humanity goes, longer-standing empires have fallen and democracies have (on occasion) given way to dictatorship. This is definitely a different sort of situation with Trump and he's displaying an alarming number of Fascist tendencies, so it's wiser to make preparations and be made fun of for "over-exaggeration" than to be caught unprepared in a major upheaval with no reserves or plan B. Now, if nothing happens, it's cool to live life like normal. But it's important to know the warning signs and to get out while the getting is good. Just ask the people who opted not to go to the lifeboats on the Titanic... Oh wait... you can't. 

[Bodhi123]

How is it possible for anyone who supposedly has a higher-level of consciousness to be a Trump supporter?

• Trump's EGO is so large that he is delusional
• Trump spreads hate and fear

Also, the stance that Trump is alright because his policies do not affect me is Bullshit. What about compassion for others?

As the world begins to be swayed by hate and fear it is necessary for all of us to look within ourselves and determine where we stand.

 

[Bodhi123]

@Captain Flint Self-actualization is about manifesting your full potential.

Enlightenment is about realizing your true nature.

All of this self-development takes place in a larger context. Politics is part of that larger context.

To deny this larger context and to act like it has no impact on your self-development is disingenuous. Politics is not the problem. The hate and fanaticism that it engenders is the problem. An honest discourse about issues shouldn't necessarily lead to an argument.

However, I'm of the mindset  "don't talk about it be about it."

So for those of you that are interested here is a link to a website that will enable you to action: Indivisible Guide

[Elzhi]

@Captain Flint Consider this a discussion of what happens when ego runs amok and destroys the fabric of American society. Being self-actualized or becoming enlightened won't really mean much if China blows the United States into the next galaxy. What the fuck is a "life purpose" then? This is what matters. This needs to be addressed.

I'm not just gonna sit around meditating and jerk myself off with sexy affirmations and visualizations. Thats just as bad as the masses who are completely tuned out of the unraveling of America which we're currently witnessing. Only a 1/3 of eligible voters in this country actually voted. Most people probably don't even know what CItizens United v FEC is. People are already apathetic and being constantly outraged is exhausting. 

By the way, even if you don't live in the US you should be concerned too because we're the most dominant/influential economic force on this planet. When the United States implodes it's gonna fuck up a lot of people's money worldwide and their lives in the process.

[Elzhi]

@abrakamowse It sounds like you would prefer living in a cave.  Am I wrong? I mean, oneness is cool and all but we're still egoic beings living on the planet Earth. We're not about to "manifest" our way out of this predicament. Sure, I should probably accept that humanity will come to an end but as long as I'm here I'm going to engage.

[Leo Gura]

Certainly higher-consciousness and politics intertwine at some point.

The reason our politics is so nasty is because of the general low-consciousness state of most individuals in our society. As ego and materialism runs amok on a personal level, it will run amok on a collective level. All our individual neuroses are perfectly reflected at the collective level.

Which explains things like why psychedelics are demonized and outlawed by society.

Spiral Dynamics tells us exactly why all of this is happening, where its going, and what the solutions are. Spiral Dynamics could easily have predicted Trump's election. But how many people understand Spiral Dynamics? Almost no one. Most of the country is stage Blue/Orange, busily waging war against stage Orange/Green/Yellow, and stage Red (terrorism).

What we're seeing at the collective level is a backfiring of a century of rampant materialism. It's going to get worse before it gets better, because the root issue is hardly being acknowledged by anyone.

It's like Zen Devilry, without the Zen.

[Elzhi]

@eskwire I'm already telling everyone I know about wolfpac and joined but I don't know how much good it will do. I think society will collapse. Congress has already allowed President Pussy Hands to get away with murder. They won't check him or impeach him. I'm just bracing myself for impact and trying to enjoy what I can. Although it's difficult to do that when you're so stressed out you can't fucking sleep. 

[Emerald]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Certainly high-consciousness and politics intertwine at some point.

The reason our politics is so nasty is because of the general low-consciousness state of most individuals in our society. As ego and materialism runs amok on a personal level, it will run amok on a collective level. All our individual neuroses are perfectly reflected at the collective level.

Spiral Dynamics tells us exactly why all of this is happening, where its going, and what the solutions are. Spiral Dynamics could easily have predicted Trump's election. But how many people understand Spiral Dynamics? Almost no one.

Well said. I think there's a lot of spiritual bypassing in circles of people seeking enlightenment due to a misunderstanding of the truth of no self or the illusion of Maia. So, people set aside real world concerns and political concerns because they assume they are not relevant because 'it's all Maia anyway', and they neglect the awareness of the broader context in which their lives occur or seem to occur. But this sort of higher spiritual wisdom is not really applicable or effective in these scenarios and just acts as a shield from reality. Just another ego defense to guard from the unpleasantries of mundane human life. The reality of the matter is that we have to remain vigilant and informed, and focus on practical solutions to potential abuses in political power (and all the potential scenarios that stem off of these abuses) that may be coming down the pipe for us. Sometimes practical wisdom is far more applicable than higher wisdom.

Also, relative to what you wrote more recently regarding the specific role of Spiral Dynamics, I've had similar thoughts. I think that the collective works a lot like the individual human mind. Right now one of our collective Shadows is rising up into conscious awareness in the form of divisiveness, racism, and xenophobia. It's a difficult thing to come to terms with, and is nasty like turning over a rotting log. But now that we're aware we can actually address these issues, and hopefully get past them in a much deeper way than we ever have. I hope that it will bring us closer to the next phase of human evolution. Spiral Dynamics gives me a bit of hope for this. But I anticipate that it will be very difficult and bloody in the mean time as so many people are going to be caught completely off-guard, due to buying into the unsinkable ship fallacy.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Emerald Wilkins

[Leo Gura]

It's important to keep in mind just how vicious and repressive mankind has been in the last 2000 years. Society has certainly improved. No matter how bad things are now, it's still WAY better than 1000 years ago. So we're definitely evolving. The question is, will it be fast enough not to kill ourselves?

[Leo Gura]

@Maorice Take a look at the war being waged against environmental scientists and the EPA, as one example.

[Leo Gura]

@Maorice Of course! Stage Orange materialism.

It's very knowingly and intentionally designed to generate profit (i.e., egoic self-benefit, damn the collective costs).

Stage Orange co-opts science and government for the purpose of unlimited material acquisition. Of course, when you're spiritually disconnected, what else is there but unlimited material acquisition? Look at Trump. He's the living embodiment of Stage Orange consciousness run amok.

Why is he running a country at 80 years old? Because that ego can't help itself. It needs more, it needs more, it needs more! No amount is ever enough! He should be preparing to face his own death, not bickering with people over Twitter. The entire Trump presidency is an ego distraction. Of course, some folks are too far gone.

[eskwire]

@Elzhi If things are going to collapse, it's inevitable, and you don't have a plan you believe in right now, then meditation is the way to go. We are going to need our equanimity to get through what happens. And you need some sleep.

I've been angry and depressed since November, too. 

Oh yeah. I just realized the poster boy for stage orange IS orange! 

[sweater]

On 2/9/2017 at 8:32 AM, Psychonaut said:

I think Trump is pretty funny. No need to freak out about one guy that is a nutcase. There are thousands that are even more lost than Trump. Just because a comedian is running the country there is no reason to freak out. 

- Not in the US ?

[abrakamowse]

1 hour ago, Elzhi said:

@abrakamowse It sounds like you would prefer living in a cave.  Am I wrong? I mean, oneness is cool and all but we're still egoic beings living on the planet Earth. We're not about to "manifest" our way out of this predicament. Sure, I should probably accept that humanity will come to an end but as long as I'm here I'm going to engage.

Well, you are "thinking" that I am not going to engage because I say world is an illusion, that's your belief. Knowing that the world is an illusion gives you a much more strong place to confront it. Try it one day and you will know how it works. You won't be overwhelmed by the situation, and you will act getting the best possible results, if you continue "thinking" in being attached to worldly problems, you won't act to get the best results, you will act from your unconscious ego and probably you will feel overwhelmed by the "problem". If you think we are egoic beings on the planet earth, that's what we will be. But you know we are not that. I am not trying to say that I am right, I just act from a different perspective, that in my experience is much better than believing the world is the "ultimate reality".

Edited February 13, 2017 by abrakamowse

[Leo Gura]

@Maorice Oh, it has everything to do with psychology.

He's not in it for the money of course. He's in it for the ego.

[Martin123]

2 hours ago, Maorice said:

We are talking about different things here. You look at it from a psychological perspective, while I am talking about the monetary system itself. This system has a very fundamental error, which forces it to endless economic growth. It is a system with a terrible bug, which has nothing to do with psychology. The error can easily be explained, but I don't know if you are interested, so I leave it at this point.

Honestly, I don't think he is in it for the money or any other form of material acquisition. I think he is driven by genuine patriotism and the will to improve the conditions in the US. That said, he definitely seems to be a "type orange guy". He is totally a businessman and barely has any classic diplomatic skills. Kinda funny that the US is run by a businessman now and not by a politician.

Hm, again different view here. He is a fighter kind of guy. He fought on the economic battlefield successfully for half a century and now he carries his mindset of fighting into his "political carrier", which starts at the very end of the political carrier ladder, namely the US-Presidency. Let's see where this leads to.

It's already leading to catharsis of mankind

[Elzhi]

@Maorice What Leo is trying to say is that the state of our political-economic system is the result of our society, in the aggregate, being mostly stage-orange. Perverted capitalism did NOT cause stage orange consciousness. It is the RESULT of stage orange consciousness. What you're suggesting is the equivalent of putting the chariot in front of the horse. It's just straight up illogical. 

The fact that you believe that President Pussy Hands is it it for the "patriotism" is deeply concerning and laughable at best. Go look at his twitter. He says: Any negative polls are fake news. He's deliberately trying to silence any and all opposition that conflicts with the self image he's trying to uphold. Feel free to go visit his twitter page. He's also demonstrably a pathological liar. Do you want me to list out each and every single lie he has stated since his campaign until now? As a matter of fact, you can watch this: 

 

 

The President is driven purely by ego. He recently proposed a tariff on all Mexican imports because the Mexican president is refusing to pay the wall he want to build. Does putting a tariff on Mexican imports sound like an intelligent decision to you? Or is that an economic disaster waiting to happen?

If Donald Trump is such a "patriot" why is he openly breaking the law and demonstrating dictatorial tendencies? It's illegal to use the office of President for the advancement of your own financial interests. You can go watch Kellyanne Conway literally advertise Ivanka Trump's clothing brand on Fox News. That's ILLEGAL. And also, where are his tax returns? Why does he refuse to release them? 

Lastly, back in 2001 when the 9/11 attack happened, it was the direct result of President Bush failing to read and act upon a  national security briefing that explicitly said we should anticipate an imminent terror attack from the middle east. Guess who else doesn't read their national security briefings?

Also, if you think that he has "successfully" fought across the "economic battlefield" then why do nearly ALL of his businesses fail? Why has his casino filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy more than ANY other US company? 

Edited February 13, 2017 by Elzhi