What’s the difference between Sadhguru & Shinzen Young?

[Raptorsin7]

8 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

That's just u trying to explain your resistence to him ? It's probably just the impurities and darkness in your mind speaking if i had to guess... 

Yeah it's possible. 

[Bojan V]

@Raptorsin7

1 hour ago, Raptorsin7 said:

Yeah it's possible. 

He is to pushy with Sadhguru and is using all the tactics other fundamentalists are using. All who do not conform to sadhguruism are wrong and in error. 

[voxun]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

One has too much hair, the other too little.

Find the Middle Way

Next year Leo with a Sathguru beard. Then he found the middle way.?

[Spiral Wizard]

3 hours ago, Salvijus said:

The heat and conflict energy is going up guys...

I agree. It’s unnecessary, inefficient, and contra productive.

@ EVERYONE Please do not post if you are not in a state of neutrality, acceptance or love. 

I’d appreciate kind and compassionate communication.

Thank you! ❤️

 

Edited July 15, 2022 by Spiral Wizard

[Salvijus]

@Spiral Wizard true. I lost myself a little bit. 

[Salvijus]

26 minutes ago, Bojan V said:

@Raptorsin7

He is to pushy with Sadhguru and is using all the tactics other fundamentalists are using. All who do not conform to sadhguruism are wrong and in error. 

My bad. There was a gentler more conscious way of having this conversation. Maybe then the outcome would've been different and wouldn't come out as too pushy.

Sorry

[Salvijus]

Even my apology sounds triggering lol

[Spiral Wizard]

2 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

Shinzen is a former monk, who is a meditation/mindfulness teacher.

Sadhguru is a guru.

That’s an interesting distinction! Could you elaborate? How would you define the different ‘roles’? 

Edited July 15, 2022 by Spiral Wizard

[Razard86]

15 hours ago, Consilience said:

Agreed.

But as I said, I've had private conversations which give me the impression Shinzen is beyond Sahdguru. At the bear minimum, Shinzen is older and therefore has more training hours under his belt. The only reason I'm defending him here is that some noobie reading this thread could misinterpret Shinzen as not being a good source of information based on some of these comments when in reality, he's an enormously powerful source of information and inspiration. 

And again, unlike Sadhguru, all of Shinzen's main teachings are free in video and written format. His main teachings also cut to the heart of Enlightenment in unusually precise language, and provide a very basic framework of how to bridge practice with living life. I haven't studied with Sadhguru one on one, but from what is publicly available and popular, he is very vague, flashy, and seems to make it about him more than Shinzen, who makes it about the practice, the work. 

But again, I recognize both are doing good work in terms of raising awareness and that's an important acknowledgment.  

Oh well I have no comment on Shinzen, this is actually the first time I have ever heard about him. I may look into him as a result of this thread. I understand you like Shinzen, that means you identify with him. You have integrated him as a part of you. This is why you defend him. Its also why I defended Sadhguru. We are just mirroring each other is all. But I'm glad you speak so highly of Shinzen I'm sure he would be pleased he has had such a positive impact on you.

[ValiantSalvatore]

21 hours ago, Spiral Wizard said:

Edit: maybe better title: What’s the difference between enlightened masters?

To me, Sadhguru seems to have a completely different level of radiance and vibrancy than Shinzen Young. What makes the difference? 

Is it the level of kundalini awakening? I don’t believe it’s just charisma. @GreenWoods talked a lot about different dimensions of consciousness. Maybe it has something to do with that?

 

Edit: My inquire does not aim to judge anyone. Both Shinzen & Sadhguru are incredible and worth studying deeply. This thread is not necessary about them specifically. I’m genuinely curious about understanding how different paths lead to different results. Because there certainly is a difference between different traditions and enlightened masters. 

I never meet both of them in person as they live to far away I've been following Shinzen for about 6 years approx. now as he was the only one making meditation available for me on demand pratically with highly comptent no b.s people.

Shinzen has a bit of a rigorous approach that might does not appeal to westerne standars sometimes he is one of the people I'd say where the threshhold beginns of saying this is serious spiritual practice and not my wo-wo teaching group only. As he emphasis retreats a lot and he is teaching meditation forever. I particiapated at least approx 20-30+ micro retreats of 2-3 days over the past 6 years or more as this was one of the only things available to me in terms of retreats. Yoga seems more comfy and less dry but more effort.

I interacted with a deeply enlightend soto zen master for western standards let's say who also had more of this tougher eastern approach mindset. A lot of sort of healthy tough love attitude that I find in Zen is lost through the emphasis of the western mindset of wanting everything comfy so a bit of this is lost.

I did an introduction course from Sadghurus yoga and I pretty much have every audiobook spoken by him and listend to it's full duration not including retention. So I have definitely a good amount of exposure to what sadghuru wants to teach I dunno how often I was tearing up when listening to him. They definitely have both a different approach towards compassion.

I'd agree with @Consilience that Shinzen has a lot of joy his inner child in a sense is so happy and bouncing you would not believe it as well as his wit and solution oriented advice. Also he combined dry burmese vipassana and rinzai zen from mahsi and IIRC his roshi sasaki roshi. I am unsure how advanced his techniques are some I can't follow for very long that are more in the rinzai-zen direction like expansion and contraction techniques and gones.I am not familar with both traditions outside Shinzens context so it's definitely a different kind of practice than what people would imagine and I do believe it can lead to deeper realizations especially if they take the practice seriously. Also his techniques go very far and also similar to Sadghuru goes into the area of high performance. A lot of high performance workers enjoy Shinzen content many people with phd's or impressive academic records and life stories. That is also very inspiring. He also rates himself as a person because people critiqued this about him in the past as someone who is on the dry side of compassion, somehow in the sense of compassion is the healer arts. He compared himself in the video to a surgeon and his healers art and he certainly has that quality. It's not easy to describe imgaine a doctor/nurse/rescue service stiching a wound and after that you notice that you are healed. He is very good at that finding the sweat spot and helping with whatever you need while being very uplifting and inspiring himself. That is sort of shinzens approach to compassion from what I notice and practiced.

He does emphasis and include loving kindness meditation in his own system as a vipassana pratice and it definitely works it's a very active style of meditation you have to do a lot in a sense as you label anything. As well as the techniques are endless I don't even want to explore all of them because of how deep they seem. 
----
Sadghuru I have less experience with only that what I mentioned. He definitely seems to be more expressive and warm by nature or genetics than Shinzen, Shinzen definitely seems like a person who had to deal with fear more. If we ask about the human side. Which will also coincide with technique choice and teacher preference. 

Reading Wilber ROT different techniques produce different results vispassana can only lead to casual states of "enlightenment" and won't bring you to non-duality apparently / non-dual embodyment. 

What I find is that generally yoga people are very much intune with their kinesthetic intelligence especially how it is marketed in the west. Doing kriya yoga for exampled showed me how serious yoga can be done and not what is marketed to the west, altough I find their level of realization is to much in the plain of beign human. Sadghuru like Shinzen combines a lot of Yoga practices seemingly so there is a unification of enlightenment and people create commonalities etc. you can clearly tell this from his talks and books by both. I did hatha yoga, suriya kriya and upa yoga in his online course although the focus was on the theoretical aspects of it and had not all to many practices. 

Both also love science.

In terms of realizations I did not read a single word in the entire thread that would help me clarify as well as explore stuff as I see some issues on the technical side of things, yet I'd personally say Sadghuru is one if not the most enlightend person on earth publically known. With including people in the scene like Adyashanti/Ralston/Young/Kahn/Tolle maybe the Dalai Lama or Mingyur Ringpoche is at such a deep level of realization. I don't think Shinzen can compare to someones level of awakening who grew up in the east and started very young. Shinzen started at 25 and went hardcore. 

Sadghuru was always like ever since he was born he self-reports this also. Sadghuru seems to me to be one woke "beep" and I can only say after following 6 years of Shinzens work as much as  I could he could not compare to Sadghuru. People who generally talk about re-incarnation and are actively spiritual praticioners etc. and more of this sidhi stuff some to be on a different level. Maybe Shinzen has 10% of what Sadghuru has and Ralston 20-25 and vice-versa approx to diminish bias without testing. 

Shinzen was also initiated in the shingon tradition of Vajrayana and tells crazy visual experiences with what they did there. I never heard someone here speak for example about this tradition and it's techniques and effects.

Conceptual common language is really missing here yet if I'd go by what I know I'd put Sadghuru 1 max 2 stages above where Shinzen is when Shinzen is at non-dual and sadghuru is at non-dual I'd say sadghuru is one level deeper. Excluding lower TIER 3 realizations as dream,casual state etc. 

As well as my experience to higher TIER 3 realms is limited. So I can't really talk about it and usually it's biased towards the teacher. Shinzen is not that friendly with himself either I believe in terms of still wanting growth and impacting with his work. I'd personally say after talking to him a couple of times he has enough humility to admit Sadghuru is on a deeper level if it truely is the case. And I think both would be wise enough to not bother about it.

Besides if it's for technical clarification or exploration.
 

Edited July 15, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[Salvijus]

@ValiantSalvatore your name is salvatore? That's a beautiful name

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Salvijus No it's a name of a friend lol I once liked we are not friends anymore. It's a very common pattern also unfortunately.

Edited July 15, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[Salvijus]

Tbh the question is about what makes different people to have different auras and energy about them. Not how their teaching style differes from each other.

I think there arę very noticeable difference in those who practice energetic path and zen awareness path. 

A christian would have a totally different presence also. Mooji radiates a very powerful field of love all the time. I haven't seen such presence in other path people.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

6 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

@Salvijus No it's a name of a friend lol I once liked we are not friends anymore. It's a very common pattern also unfortunately.

U are male or female? My name is (salvijus) means salvatore in italy. That's why it cought my attention ? 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Salvijus No, there are multiple questions. Also asking open questions leaves for a lot of room for interpretation which is good imo.

1 hour ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

What’s the difference between enlightened masters?

To me, Sadhguru seems to have a completely different level of radiance and vibrancy than Shinzen Young. What makes the difference? 

1 hour ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

I’m genuinely curious about understanding how different paths lead to different results. Because there certainly is a difference between different traditions and enlightened masters. 

46 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Tbh the question is about what makes different people to have different auras and energy about them. Not how their teaching style differes from each other.

I think there a very noticeable difference in those who practice energetic path and zen awareness path. 

A christian would have a totally different presence also. Mooji radiates a very powerful field of love all the time. I haven't seen such presence in other path people.

Edited just now by Salvijus

Their teaching style and technique emphasis creates differnt auras and energies no? Which would be one cause for their difference in energy. In that sense style matters. That is what I explained and I showed commonalties as people focus on differences although there are plenty commonalities. The issue is when you want to compare traditions and techniques. The realizations matter more than the experience so it's actually permanent and they seem to differ between tradtions the experience is the gateway into the realization. Then the issue is what tradition gives me what degree of realization for example vispassana having it limits at casual relaziation of non-form IIRC is the content and context of the realization. 

Let's take a christain as a prime who practices johns prayer of XYZ technique (IIRC there is some effective christian method with that name) which has an emphasis on loving kindness but reaches non-dual realizations.

Now it's clear that one entity is has realization X at stage X with content X because of tradition X. This goes for every tradition/technique/method.

I find common language for permanent realizations in higher and lower order is missing to make proper distinctions between realizations and to properly understand for example: "Oh Teacher A is talking about an experience in permanent realization/structure-stage/embodyment stage/ Y. There seems to be a confusion between realizations and experience imo in general. 

For example for me it would be intersting to see.

Sadghuru:
Traditions: 
Vibe: Compassioante
Structure-stage level: non-dual

Random Person X on Forum:
Vibe: Cognitive
Structure-stage level: casual state
Tradition: Goenka vipassana
Most prominent quality: 

As well as discussion with more conceptual use that is moderated at best by moderators to facillitate what Leo wants to teach in terms of spirituality. For example an arhat IIRC means the person has non-dual realization. So you could use the term arhat to say both Shinzen have arhat levels of awakening as well as Sadghuru meaning they are non-dualy realied. Again the issu is conceptual you can have smaller degress of permanent awakening apparently like the casual state. I am stating there is an issue with wording that could lead to clarification issues. If people would use common or more common spiritual language like arhat, non-dual, god-realization, dream state, casual state, psychic state etc. So there would be less confusion, missunderstanding and unneccessary wars. 

I hope I brought my points across that common conceptual spiritual terms could be used instead of personalized experience to represent a more accurate picture of the realizations. As you'd be forced to make percise distinctions which many do not want to do. I find it for example confusing to read the questions and than answer to I know guru x he is such a charming and loveable character I'd attend any retreat with him. That is good feedback, yet it does not really serve the purpose of making proper distinctions imo. 
 
Maybe I am thinking to far ahead, but I imagined this years ago as this would be very cool, to see a bit more turquioise as turquioise communities are highly conceptual.

Something like this a list of concepts and characteristics would be cool that can be associated with spiritual attainments and realizations for example. I do this myself so I know most stuff is already mapped. Reading Leo's list the discussions here I don't think many read books from his list. I won't deny it's technical as hell. So yeah....

@Salvijus I am a guy. I did not know that Salvijus means Salvatore in Italy or italian? I know what Salvatore means to some extent I still like the name just hate the guy. 

Edited July 15, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[Consilience]

5 hours ago, Salvijus said:

The heat and conflict energy is going up guys...

Here's a simple argument that u can't win. Shinzen is still meditating and trying to go deeper. Sadhguru is already done looong ago. 

The end.

That’s a bad argument man. It assumes If someone stops trying to go deeper they’ve made it. It also assumes Shinzen is still trying to go deeper which Im not even sure where that idea comes from. 

[ValiantSalvatore]

To be quiet frank Shinzen is definitely not meditating anymore to any of the standards described here or impression people have. Like did you guys read 0 books? Hope this spirit of truth still remains. This is meant positive lol!

 

Edited July 15, 2022 by ValiantSalvatore

[Consilience]

Well they say it takes one to know one. Takes someone who‘s enlightened to know another enlightened being. If you can’t see the unimaginable wokeness of Shinzen, well… no amount of internet conversation will do it. Only practice and being woke would  

 

Also Renzai Zen is an energetic path. Shinzen talks about the whole “Zen bounce” for a reason. Zen teaches people how to unlock enormous reservoirs of energy so anyone thinking Zen is dry, tame, boring, stale, hasn’t trained in Zen, or hasn’t trained with an authentic Zen lineage holder. 

[Salvijus]

13 minutes ago, Consilience said:

That’s a bad argument man. It assumes If someone stops trying to go deeper they’ve made it. It also assumes Shinzen is still trying to go deeper which Im not even sure where that idea comes from. 

Shinzen has reached the final goal of buddhists enlightenment? I watched a few of his videos i think he still practices. Could be wrong

And i didn't mean if somebody stops trying he had reached the final goal. I meant sadhguru has reached the final goal of liberation then explored all the facets of consciouness (mystism) and then stopped meditating and now just serves humanity.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

8 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Also Renzai Zen is an energetic path. Shinzen talks about the whole “Zen bounce” for a reason. Zen teaches people how to unlock enormous reservoirs of energy so anyone thinking Zen is dry, tame, boring, stale, hasn’t trained in Zen, or hasn’t trained with an authentic Zen lineage holder. 

Every path is energetic by that logic.

But zen is the path of awareness predominantly.

Kriya is a path of learning to manipulate various energies in the body and outside of body. 

They are very different in many ways.

I think im being fair in saying this.