What’s the difference between Sadhguru & Shinzen Young?

[Spiral Wizard]

Edit: maybe better title: What’s the difference between enlightened masters?

To me, Sadhguru seems to have a completely different level of radiance and vibrancy than Shinzen Young. What makes the difference? 

Is it the level of kundalini awakening? I don’t believe it’s just charisma. @GreenWoods talked a lot about different dimensions of consciousness. Maybe it has something to do with that?

 

Edit: My inquire does not aim to judge anyone. Both Shinzen & Sadhguru are incredible and worth studying deeply. This thread is not necessary about them specifically. I’m genuinely curious about understanding how different paths lead to different results. Because there certainly is a difference between different traditions and enlightened masters. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by Spiral Wizard

[LSD-Rumi]

@Spiral Wizard too much Zen kills the heart. Too much peace make the mind sleep. Too much nothingness kills joy. This is the difference between Indian gurus and Buddhists. Their approach is more wholistic.

[Spiral Wizard]

8 minutes ago, LSD-Rumi said:

@Spiral Wizard too much Zen kills the heart. Too much peace make the mind sleep. Too much nothingness kills joy. This is the difference between Indian gurus and Buddhists. Their approach is more wholistic.

I love that! What you are saying really resonates. I perceive Shinzen Young as dead and dull in comparison to Sadhguru or other yogis who overflow with joy and love. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by Spiral Wizard

[Consilience]

Shinzen is overflowing with joy, not sure what you guys are talking about. 

Shinzen is definitely comparable to Sadhguru. Not only that, but the precision from which he speaks is radically more advanced than anything Sadhguru has to offer, and it’s all free and on YouTube or in manuals. Shinzen’s UM system is a path to God for those who understand what he’s pointing to. 

Shinzen is intentionally meek, doesn’t seek to accumulate endless followers, or wealth. He intentionally limits how much he “transmits” and to the masses, this will be mistaken as “not as enlightened,” or “Zen kills the heart.” Which is particularly funny given that the Zen Master’s ultimate goal is to walk the path of the Bodhisattva, which is the most intense, heart wrenchingly compassionate heart centered path any being can walk. You’re literally vowing to continue being reincarnated until all beings are Awakened which is an impossible goal, yet they strive, endlessly and eternally. Should be noted though Shinzen isn’t a Zen teacher.

At the end of the day, Shinzen wont resonate with everyone, but from my own biased experience, I would put Shinzen as being well beyond Sadhguru in level of Awakening. But Ive heard stories about and had one on one conversations with Shinzen that give me that impression. Dude is actually insanely woke, way more than you’d ever expect watching his YouTube videos. 

[Razard86]

5 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Shinzen is overflowing with joy, not sure what you guys are talking about. 

Shinzen is definitely comparable to Sadhguru. Not only that, but the precision from which he speaks is radically more advanced than anything Sadhguru has to offer, and it’s all free and on YouTube or in manuals. Shinzen’s UM system is a path to God for those who understand what he’s pointing to. 

Shinzen is intentionally meek, doesn’t seek to accumulate endless followers, or wealth. He intentionally limits how much he “transmits” and to the masses, this will be mistaken as “not as enlightened,” or “Zen kills the heart.” Which is particularly funny given that the Zen Master’s ultimate goal is to walk the path of the Bodhisattva, which is the most intense, heart wrenchingly compassionate heart centered path any being can walk. You’re literally vowing to continue being reincarnated until all beings are Awakened which is an impossible goal, yet they strive, endlessly and eternally. Should be noted though Shinzen isn’t a Zen teacher.

At the end of the day, Shinzen wont resonate with everyone, but from my own biased experience, I would put Shinzen as being well beyond Sadhguru in level of Awakening. But Ive heard stories about and had one on one conversations with Shinzen that give me that impression. Dude is actually insanely woke, way more than you’d ever expect watching his YouTube videos. 

Sadhguru purposefully limits his teachings to reach the masses you cannot judge Sadhguru's level of knowledge based on his basic interviews. What he teaches within his Isha Foundation is different than what he offers the public. He dumbs things down and presents them very non threatening to the ego just to help the masses find Yoga practices as an integral aspect of their life.

Both teachers have their methods. There is no better or more admirable way. If everyone followed Shinzen's methods less people would be exposed to Spiritual teachings from the East. Just like its good to have diverse paths of food, for nice cuisine we need diverse methods of reaching people.

Each are doing good work of raising awareness.

[Jodistrict]

Shinen was my meditation instructor.  I had a chance to observe him over a long period of time.  Shinzen is the real deal.  That's the difference.

 

 

[Salvijus]

Buddhists have a very deceptive presence about them. They usually look very very ordinary. Kriya yogis are a different kind, they glow like crazy. The entire hall can blow up from their presence. I think that's the difference u see. I think a more fair comparison would be sadhguru with buddha. Shinzen is not even enlightened, he's still on a path.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Salvijus

[Eternal Unity]

Both expressions of the ONE that is whole. Individuationly, they present two routes of experience as to how attain enlightenment.

Sadhguru's methods are faster and appropriate only to those who are already more advanced spirituality.

Shinzen Young is a fine teacher for beginners, I believe.

Ultimately, you yourself take apprentice-hood, if so you wish, under guidance and intuitive connection will lead you to your path.

Greg.

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, Salvijus said:

 Shinzen is not even enlightened, he's still on a path.

He really is dude. He really is. Of course he has no reason to flaunt about it or compare himself to others. Way beyond all of that. 

[Spiral Wizard]

2 hours ago, Consilience said:

Shinzen is overflowing with joy, not sure what you guys are talking about. 

Shinzen is definitely comparable to Sadhguru. Not only that, but the precision from which he speaks is radically more advanced than anything Sadhguru has to offer, and it’s all free and on YouTube or in manuals. Shinzen’s UM system is a path to God for those who understand what he’s pointing to. 

Shinzen is intentionally meek, doesn’t seek to accumulate endless followers, or wealth. He intentionally limits how much he “transmits” and to the masses, this will be mistaken as “not as enlightened,” or “Zen kills the heart.” Which is particularly funny given that the Zen Master’s ultimate goal is to walk the path of the Bodhisattva, which is the most intense, heart wrenchingly compassionate heart centered path any being can walk. You’re literally vowing to continue being reincarnated until all beings are Awakened which is an impossible goal, yet they strive, endlessly and eternally. Should be noted though Shinzen isn’t a Zen teacher.

At the end of the day, Shinzen wont resonate with everyone, but from my own biased experience, I would put Shinzen as being well beyond Sadhguru in level of Awakening. But Ive heard stories about and had one on one conversations with Shinzen that give me that impression. Dude is actually insanely woke, way more than you’d ever expect watching his YouTube videos. 

@Consilience I somewhat agree. No doubt, from shinzen’s point of view he’s overflowing with joy but wouldn’t you agree that his  demeanor, radiance, and vibrancy don’t make that too obvious? I’m not saying this means he’s less enlightened. Frank Yang actually said if the kundalini juice is still pouring out of you, the process isn’t finished yet. He and Shinzen explained that once the 10th Oxherding picture is reached you become extremely ordinary for outsiders unless they know what to look for. 

My inquire does not aim to judge anyone. I’m genuinely curious about understanding how different paths lead to different results. Because there certainly is a difference between different traditions and enlightened masters. 

[Consilience]

2 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Each are doing good work of raising awareness.

Agreed.

But as I said, I've had private conversations which give me the impression Shinzen is beyond Sahdguru. At the bear minimum, Shinzen is older and therefore has more training hours under his belt. The only reason I'm defending him here is that some noobie reading this thread could misinterpret Shinzen as not being a good source of information based on some of these comments when in reality, he's an enormously powerful source of information and inspiration. 

And again, unlike Sadhguru, all of Shinzen's main teachings are free in video and written format. His main teachings also cut to the heart of Enlightenment in unusually precise language, and provide a very basic framework of how to bridge practice with living life. I haven't studied with Sadhguru one on one, but from what is publicly available and popular, he is very vague, flashy, and seems to make it about him more than Shinzen, who makes it about the practice, the work. 

But again, I recognize both are doing good work in terms of raising awareness and that's an important acknowledgment.  

[Consilience]

1 minute ago, Spiral Wizard said:

@Consilience I somewhat agree. No doubt, from shinzen’s point of view he’s overflowing with joy but wouldn’t you agree that his  demeanor, radiance, and vibrancy don’t make that too obvious? I’m not saying this means he’s less enlightened. Frank Yang actually said if the kundalini juice is still pouring out of you, the process isn’t finished yet. He and Shinzen explained that once the 10th Oxherding picture is reached you become extremely ordinary for outsiders unless they know what to look for. 

My inquire does not aim to judge anyone. I’m genuinely curious about understanding how different paths lead to different results. Because there certainly is a difference between different traditions and enlightened masters. 

Well maybe it's because I've done a few retreats with him now, but to me he seems very quirky, light hearted, and joyous, but also as you mentioned, extremely ordinary. So yes I can see how some would view that demeanor as flat. As you also mentioned though, once you know what to look for it becomes obvious how far Shinzen has really gone. 

Different paths do lead to different results yes, but the ultimate aim of the path, Enlightenment, the Truth, is synonymous, which is what is most important. At least to me. 

[Spiral Wizard]

4 minutes ago, Consilience said:

some noobie reading this thread could misinterpret Shinzen as not being a good source of information based on some of these comments when in reality, he's an enormously powerful source of information and inspiration. 

And again, unlike Sadhguru, all of Shinzen's main teachings are free in video and written format. His main teachings also cut to the heart of Enlightenment in unusually precise language, and provide a very basic framework of how to bridge practice with living life.

True

[Spiral Wizard]

1 minute ago, Consilience said:

Different paths do lead to different results yes, but the ultimate aim of the path, Enlightenment, the Truth, is synonymous, which is what is most important. At least to me. 

I was told that it’s possible to realize emptiness and get to the first stage of enlightenment without activating the kundalini energy which means that the LOVEBLISS aspect is missing. 

It makes sense to me that the is the divine father (truth, recognition, emptiness, etc.) and the divine mother (kundalini, love, energy, etc.) aspect. 

 

[_Archangel_]

4 hours ago, Spiral Wizard said:

To me, Sadhguru seems to have a completely different level of radiance and vibrancy than Shinzen Young. What makes the difference? 

@Spiral Wizard your biases.
in more general terms, i think hinduist teachers tend to be more charismatic.
But you can't boil down enlightment to a dick measuring contest, expecially at their level. Readiance. really???
Both dudes never gave me the idea that they are not awake, anyway.

[Spiral Wizard]

3 hours ago, Consilience said:

He intentionally limits how much he “transmits”

Why is that? 

[Consilience]

4 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

I was told that it’s possible to realize emptiness and get to the first stage of enlightenment without activating the kundalini energy which means that the LOVEBLISS aspect is missing. 

It makes sense to me that the is the divine father (truth, recognition, emptiness, etc.) and the divine mother (kundalini, love, energy, etc.) aspect. 

 

I'm not sure. In the Advaita Vedanta school, truth IS bliss. I've had experiences of pure emptiness being blissful, but this bliss is very different than the types of bliss from kundalini, feelings of love/energy. The bliss of truth is always present. 

But kundalini, feelings of love, energy and bliss, for sure can be side effects from this work. 

[Consilience]

7 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

Why is that? 

The same reason Peter Ralston does. Because they don't want people to turn the work into being about the teacher. I've heard Ralston say he could get people stoned, but stopped because too many people were not taking the work seriously enough and getting distracted/mistaken with what it was really about. 

[Spiral Wizard]

2 minutes ago, Consilience said:

The same reason Peter Ralston does. Because they don't want people to turn the work into being about the teacher. I've heard Ralston say he could get people stoned, but stopped because too many people were not taking the work seriously enough and getting distracted/mistaken with what it was really about. 

Interesting! Didn’t really consider that. Do you think there no use in transmissions? 

There seem to be very different transmissions. I wouldn’t be surprised of some are useless temporary highs and others actually help you get to self realization faster. 

I’ve been on shaktipat intensives and spoke with people who’ve been doing light/RASA and other transmissions for more than a year. Allegedly it was speeding up their progress significantly. 

[Consilience]

2 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

Interesting! Didn’t really consider that. Do you think there no use in transmissions? 

I think there's definitely uses. Soryu Forall uses transmission and it's had a significant effect on my spiritual growth. I was just meaning it's hard to base a teacher's level of Awakening on whether they're using transmission or not. 

 

3 minutes ago, Spiral Wizard said:

There seem to be very different transmissions. I wouldn’t be surprised of some are useless temporary highs and others actually help you get to self realization faster. 

I’ve been on shaktipat intensives and spoke with people who’ve been doing light/RASA and other transmissions for more than a year. Allegedly it was speeding up their progress significantly

Very interesting. Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if certain beings benefit more from transmission than others. I also am inclined to agree that yes some may no more than useless highs while others are highly intelligent, energetic forms of communication/reconfiguration/transformation. This is based on my own experience plus yes hearing reports from others. BUT! I also see how this could lead someone into the trap of relying on a guru figure, or a guru figure abusing power.