Jordan peterson message to muslims is a big projection

[Ulax]

I quite liked the content of the video, apart from the woke bashing. However, I dislike that it was only for the muslim audience. I think it implies some level of blame onto their community.

I think it disregards the sociological and politics background that creates the conflicts within islamic sects and between different religions.

--------------------------------------------------------

And, re Leo's epistemology comment, I think that's spot on. Epistemology can't be overlooked. If it is, to my mind, you're building a castle on sand.

[BlueOak]

Let's break down the video in detail:

• Spends a minute of time building himself up in his introduction to sound like an authority figure.
• It is time for people to stop fighting against each other, whenever possible.
• It is always time for self-reflection and improvement.
• Highlighting common values is always useful.
• Beating the drum of hatred for his own political ends, giving them a common enemy.
• Labeling other's life values as satanic because they do not align with his.
• Points people toward spreading their values outward.
• Plays the victim of being attacked, while attacking others in the previous sentence. Then wondering why.
• Gives people a platform to publish these types of articles. 
• Heralds a book that was written thousands of years ago as the way to bind communities, including those who have opposing views to the book.

He is a man of contradictions. 

Speaks about peace while calling for hostility. 
Speaks about unity while spreading division.

[Danioover9000]

@Ulax

7 minutes ago, Ulax said:

I quite liked the content of the video, apart from the woke bashing. However, I dislike that it was only for the muslim audience. I think it implies some level of blame onto their community.

I think it disregards the sociological and politics background that creates the conflicts within islamic sects and between different religions.

--------------------------------------------------------

And, re Leo's epistemology comment, I think that's spot on. Epistemology can't be overlooked. If it is, to my mind, you're building a castle on sand.

   Dude, what do you expect from a seven minute motivational video? It's not some 30 minute or hours long video of what and how to over come blame in one's community, over come sociological and political obstacles, not just within Islam but with other various sects within their religious orders. At least, relative to JP, being a Caucasian Christian professor of psychology, it's actually some feat for him to be a little bit humble in his message.

   Also, do you think it's easy to spot one's epistemic blind spots? Fuck no! It takes a higher, more developed intrapersonal, philosophical and existential intelligence to see, hear and even feel something is off. There's very few people similar to Leo that can pull that off, as if it's obvious that there's a problem. A lot of factors like one's stage of development, cognitive and moral development, personality typing, states of being, and especially life experiences and other lines of development, as well as upbringing and the type of mind/body you have, determines how easy or how difficult it is to be aware of one's blind spots. A conservative who rarely goes on vacation, spends 30 plus years living in a country, is vastly different and lower in development than a conservative that grew up moving to various other countries, that spent 2-5 years in each one, with 2-3 other languages spoken and thought in, with a richer experiences in overall life domains.

[Danioover9000]

@BlueOak

8 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

Let's break down the video in detail:

• Spends a minute of time building himself up in his introduction to sound like an authority figure.
• It is time for people to stop fighting against each other, whenever possible.
• It is always time for self-reflection and improvement.
• Highlighting common values is always useful.
• Beating the drum of hatred for his own political ends, giving them a common enemy.
• Labeling other's life values as satanic because they do not align with his.
• Points people toward spreading their values outward.
• Plays the victim of being attacked, while attacking others in the previous sentence. Then wondering why.
• Gives people a platform to publish these types of articles. 
• Heralds a book that was written thousands of years ago as the way to bind communities, including those who have opposing views to the book.

He is a man of contradictions. 

Speaks about peace while calling for hostility. 
Speaks about unity while spreading division.

Yes, this is common for almost everybody, like why won't you attempt to empower yourself in some way, in comparison to those in your competitive field?

Yes, nothing wrong with calling people to work together to achieve peace.

Yes, always time for self reflection and improvement, although that depends on the context. Running from an attacker? Good luck self retrospection there.

Yes, this builds common ground, stating common values one may have to build some kind of band wagon, or common grounds. Nothing wrong here.

Yes, JP sort of straw mans the left a bit, as most people of Islam is likely stage blue/orange or blue/red values, obviously good idea short term to create an enemy to further build a cause worth banding together and working towards, all correct, from his point of view. Yes, it's a problem if those are more developed, but be careful that you look down on JP for this. In any day and age, you could easily be JP.

Where exactly did he label life values as satanic? He's making a comment that deep down, you have the devil inside you. Course, open to interpretation, to me he's talking briefly about your ego.

Yes, he's encouraging people to live their values, why is it bad? That's like if you told me you found your LP, I'd encourage you to explore that and express that outwards.

Given what JP had to experience so far, this playing the victim is anticipated. Again, put yourself into JP's life, easily could have been you.

Yes, nothing bad with giving a platform to those who want to voice their view. A podcaster does this also, and many others do.

Yes, makes sense to herald a book when that book makes up part of your worldview.

[BlueOak]

15 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@BlueOak

Yes, this is common for almost everybody, like why won't you attempt to empower yourself in some way, in comparison to those in your competitive field?

Yes, nothing wrong with calling people to work together to achieve peace.

Yes, always time for self reflection and improvement, although that depends on the context. Running from an attacker? Good luck self retrospection there.

Yes, this builds common ground, stating common values one may have to build some kind of band wagon, or common grounds. Nothing wrong here.

Yes, JP sort of straw mans the left a bit, as most people of Islam is likely stage blue/orange or blue/red values, obviously good idea short term to create an enemy to further build a cause worth banding together and working towards, all correct, from his point of view. Yes, it's a problem if those are more developed, but be careful that you look down on JP for this. In any day and age, you could easily be JP.

Where exactly did he label life values as satanic? He's making a comment that deep down, you have the devil inside you. Course, open to interpretation, to me he's talking briefly about your ego.

Yes, he's encouraging people to live their values, why is it bad? That's like if you told me you found your LP, I'd encourage you to explore that and express that outwards.

Given what JP had to experience so far, this playing the victim is anticipated. Again, put yourself into JP's life, easily could have been you.

Yes, nothing bad with giving a platform to those who want to voice their view. A podcaster does this also, and many others do.

Yes, makes sense to herald a book when that book makes up part of your worldview.

@Danioover9000

Much of that post was in agreement with the basic values he started with.

If I were to complain about your response and say I was a victim of it, then I would be running the same line Peterson does for example. It is expected when you make negative remarks about something they return to you, especially in his case when you call them satanic.

Where?
He says: The woke political Correct Degenerate Neo marxist Ideas are in fact just the satanic enemy within, not the individuals themselves. Materialists are only partially consumed by the devil LOL. etc etc

Conflating socialism and liberal wokeism together is bad enough, and is my pet peeve of modern politics. Seeings as I hate the cultural war and see it largely as an endless distraction to avoid talking about other issues, ones that affect substantial change in people's lives. Many socialists share this sentiment, that liberals are the best interference capitalists ever have to economic change. 

Then adding the devil, satanic impulse in there to make socialists out to be biblical enemy, to those who define their lives by the bible, then wondering why people respond negatively. You can't see why people would respond negatively? Honestly? 

You can't see why this time of extreme division this rhetoric causes people who believe in things like the devil as an absolute, to go do extreme things in the name of their bible? There is certainly something wrong when you are promoting your political opponents as satanic, something fundamentally wrong with the person's mind.

It makes no sense whatsoever to promote a set of cultural values from any source across populations that don't share them, or worse share an opposing position to them. It doesn't make any sense when atheists do it, and it doesn't make any sense when religious people do it.

Edited July 14, 2022 by BlueOak

[Danioover9000]

@BlueOak

5 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

@Danioover9000

Much of that post was in agreement with the basic values he started with.

If I were to complain about your response and say I was a victim of it, then I would be running the same line Peterson does for example. It is expected when you make negative remarks about something they return to you, especially in his case when you call them satanic.

Where?
He says: The woke political Correct Degenerate Neo marxist Ideas are in fact just the satanic enemy within, not the individuals themselves. Materialists are only partially consumed by the devil LOL. etc etc

Conflating socialism and liberal wokeism together is bad enough, and is my pet peeve of modern politics. Seeings as I hate the cultural war and see it largely as an endless distraction to avoid talking about other issues, ones that affect substantial change in people's lives. Many socialists share this sentiment, that liberals are the best interference capitalists ever have to economic change. 

Then adding the devil, satanic impulse in there to make socialists out to be biblical enemy, to those who define their lives by the bible, then wondering why people respond negatively. You can't see why people would respond negatively? Honestly? 

You can't see why this time of extreme division this rhetoric causes people who believe in things like the devil as an absolute, to go do extreme things in the name of their bible? There is certainly something wrong when you are promoting your political opponents as satanic, something fundamentally wrong with the person's mind.

It makes no sense whatsoever to promote a set of cultural values from any source across populations that don't share them, or worse share an opposing position to them. It doesn't make any sense when atheists do it, and it doesn't make any sense when religious people do it.

   I guess it makes no sense to me why you and other extremists here with a JP hatred get triggered by him. Maybe it's a stage blue/orange shadow that you gen z and millennials have. Not saying that you should hold it in, I'm saying feel that lack and repression inside you, and check if you actually have out grown JP also others too who shit post on JP. I'm okay, if you're complaining a little bit from a more developed perspective, but I'm not okay if you just blindly complain from a lack of experiences, or from repression. That's when we have a problem.

 

[BlueOak]

@Danioover9000

That is your assumption or projection to your feelings from my own words. There was no emotional trigger there. I've listened to him on some issues and found it beneficial as I have a blue shadow at times and he helps correct it in an intelligent way at times. Not towards religion however, authority. In fact, half of the post was in agreement with his basic philosophy in a way to reach religious people, and the first post was saying he was useful to the conversation overall. My so-called extremist positions would be right-wing to you and Peterson on some issues for clarity, it is only on economic or internal social issues I am a lefty. 

It is not extremist to highlight why calling your political opponents satanic to people who take the bible so literally, is not only extremely unhelpful to intelligent or reasoned debate but also dangerous in the current political climate. Further to then be surprised when you receive a reflection of that hate back shows very little self-awareness.

[SamC]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@BlueOak

   I guess it makes no sense to me why you and other extremists here with a JP hatred get triggered by him. Maybe it's a stage blue/orange shadow that you gen z and millennials have. Not saying that you should hold it in, I'm saying feel that lack and repression inside you, and check if you actually have out grown JP also others too who shit post on JP. I'm okay, if you're complaining a little bit from a more developed perspective, but I'm not okay if you just blindly complain from a lack of experiences, or from repression. That's when we have a problem.

 

Reality is a mirror. The extremists you see outside is the extremists inside. There is nothing wromg with JP but he has gone down the deep end because of fear of not drowning, which just makes him drown in his delusions even more.

I respect him highly and he has done great work, but his obsession with lesser jihad is not something that is in line with what he belives other's should do. He thinks that the world is attacking him, but he don't realize how he is attacking himself. He is not aware of his double standard. He needs to realize that he is the extremists, which is the reason why he hates extremists.

[Razard86]

5 hours ago, Razard86 said:

I ain't got time for that, as I'm busy with my life purpose, and so should you. Go work your LP instead of JP complaining.

.......ummmmm You are literally contradicting yourself writing that statement and by every post you continue to write on this thread.

Can you please notice this? I think you need to stop taking people's opinions on Jordan Peterson as a personal attack. If they don't like what he says... who cares? You are also doing the same thing that you are accusing others of doing.....do you see how this ego blame game leads no where?

Please watch this video by Leo. Debates and arguments can be fun but ultimately they are just an ego game. 

 

[Razard86]

26 minutes ago, SamC said:

Reality is a mirror. The extremists you see outside is the extremists inside. There is nothing wromg with JP but he has gone down the deep end because of fear of not drowning, which just makes him drown in his delusions even more.

I respect him highly and he has done great work, but his obsession with lesser jihad is not something that is in line with what he belives other's should do. He thinks that the world is attacking him, but he don't realize how he is attacking himself. He is not aware of his double standard. He needs to realize that he is the extremists, which is the reason why he hates extremists.

Exactly. Everywhere we look there is only self. We attack what we don't like inside outside. This isn't some spirituality thing this is literally known in psychology. 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-big-questions/201108/we-see-in-others-what-we-fear-in-ourselves

Jordan Peterson knows this, its a fundamental psychological theme and one of the many components Jordan has awakened the world to in many of his speeches. He once talked about how when he was working under his Professor in Grad School he was in a prison. He pondered if he would be capable of some of the violent acts the prisoners there had committed and he realized that if the circumstances were aligned just right he could do the same thing they did.

This is why I say he is too intelligent and brilliant to have the current issue he is having. The same level of introspection a young Jordan Peterson was capable of he surely is capable of right now. I think one day he will realize his folly....probably on his death bed.

[Danioover9000]

@Phil777

14 hours ago, Phil777 said:

Peterson serves the blue niche very well, bridging the gap from blue to orange which is morally much further developed, rejecting any literal, dogmatic and illogical interpretation of the scriptures and grounding the interpretation of the religious source material in a utilitarian, principled mode of thought (reduce harm, aim for the highest good, reject everything else). He stressed that you cannot claim to believe in God if your behaviour doesn't reflect that belief. Muslims who slaughter each other and other faiths over their literal interpretations of the Quran, need to have someone like Peterson to help them out of that paradigm lock. Leo also said in his self reflections that sometimes some of the lower consciousness emotions like anger, shame and guilt are needed to reach people stuck at lower levels of development and consciousness.

Therefore, I think his spoken letter addressed at Muslims is actually quite strong and forward thinking when you leave out his lashing out against Green. It also needs to be acknowledged that Green has a huge orange shadow at the moment being willing to give up freedoms like freedom of speech and even bodily autonomy for the sake of political correctness, social justice and public or "collective" health. Peterson is right to reject that and even right to be afraid of it.

People like him are needed to balance and straighten out the green revolution.

Petersons comments about Elliot were a mess though. Nothing about that made a lot of sense. I think Twitter handled it ok, given that they give him a chance to correct himself and then is page would be online again. It's not like he uttered a hurtful opinion and then was perma banned. He was transphobic the moment he refused to call Elliot by his name, disrespecting and discriminating against his gender identity. 

I think there is an argument to be made against mandated speech when it comes to hundreds of weird and hard to understand pronouns describing 100s of degrees of gender fluidity. But when a woman becomes a man, it's not that hard Jordan, not that hard.

 

   Exactly.

[Danioover9000]

@Razard86

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

6 hours ago, Razard86 said:

I ain't got time for that, as I'm busy with my life purpose, and so should you. Go work your LP instead of JP complaining.

   I'm sorry, but if you want to attack me properly, quote me properly. That statement came from my post that outlays the complexity of this issue first from a developmental perspective, before I reminded some of you you have an LP, somewhere, waiting to be discovered, if only you stopped complaining. That was it, simple.

 

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

.......ummmmm You are literally contradicting yourself writing that statement and by every post you continue to write on this thread.

Can you please notice this? I think you need to stop taking people's opinions on Jordan Peterson as a personal attack. If they don't like what he says... who cares? You are also doing the same thing that you are accusing others of doing.....do you see how this ego blame game leads no where?

Please watch this video by Leo. Debates and arguments can be fun but ultimately they are just an ego game. 

 

   Hahaha, I don't care for arguing and debating, I don't care for people's so called opinions on JP as personal attacks, nor personal attacks, and I don't care. I just noticed a pattern that some users find themselves stuck in, like a broken record, repeating negative talking points against JP, which was also what made me stuck in the past. 

[thisintegrated]

I'm confused.  Did he say something bad in the video?  Or is OP projecting?

Almost all victims of Islamic terrorism are muslims.  Non-muslim casualties make up like <1% of statistics.  Muslim on muslim attacks are a problem that does need more attention.

Edited July 15, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Grateful Dead]

good take by ken wilber

[Danioover9000]

@thisintegrated

15 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

I'm confused.  Did he say something bad in the video?  Or is OP projecting?

Almost all victims of Islamic terrorism are muslims.  Non-muslim casualties make up like <1% of statistics.  Muslim on muslim attacks are a problem that does need more attention.

   No, it's just some reactions to JP's rhetoric against the left.

   Yes, that's why JP made the video.

[StarStruck]

A lot of people lack healthy stage blue, he helped a lot of people. I think he is not all bad.

I found the video a little bit derogative. Like he is all up there and the muslims are all below and he is there literally on his armchair sofa telling how good the muslims are for a part, and naught for another part.

Obviously he is projecting but we are all projecting unless you are fully enlightened which few of us are. The funny thing is that the OP shits on Peterson and calls him out for projecting while you are doing the same thing, by shaming him for shaming others.

[Danioover9000]

@StarStruck

1 minute ago, StarStruck said:

A lot of people lack healthy stage blue, he helped a lot of people. I think he is not all bad.

I found the video a little bit derogative. Like he is all up there and the muslims are all below and he is there literally on his armchair sofa telling how good the muslims are for a part, and naught for another part.

Obviously he is projecting but we are all projecting unless you are fully enlightened which few of us are. The funny thing is that the OP shits on Peterson and calls him out for projecting while you are doing the same thing, by shaming him for shaming others.

   I agree, that was what I was trying to point out to other users here besides the OP, as the other users were more aggressive with their opinions. Seems like their left part of the ego was a bit offended.

[Danioover9000]

@acidgoofy

34 minutes ago, acidgoofy said:

good take by ken wilber

   I agree, although the comments section isn't as good.

[Danioover9000]

   JP talking about Twitter:

   Funnily enough, while there are many differences, there are some similarities to Leo's recent video on the evolution of Actaulized.org, one example being the use of the metaphor of the signal and noise.

[Danioover9000]

   Why is the latest blog post another meme, that's dumb?