Should Americans brace themselves for the erosion of many more of their rights?

[Hardkill]

I get that devilry doesn't win in the long-run and there is hope that democracy in America will eventually be fully healed decades from now.

However, given that the right wing has already significantly damaged the democracy of the US and they will continue to damage it even further and further and further over the next few decades, should most Americans who are not rich and not white expect that A LOT more of their rights will taken away from them over the next decades?

Will something like the Jim Crow laws or nationwide ban on gay rights return in America for about a decade or so?

Will social safety nets such as Medicare, Social Security, Obamacare, etc. all be gone within the next few decades?

[BlueOak]

Yes.

There will be a rubber band effect eventually but unless someone keeps the courts in check, you can expect this. From my understanding, there have been US presidents which have put a leash on the courts before but failing that yes its a distinct possibility.

People's willingness to protest or tolerance of it is an all-time low, so the people's response is muted.

Its highly like this will create two countries inside America, and further divide your population for generations.

Edited July 10, 2022 by BlueOak

[Bojan V]

I have a feeling that here in Slovenia we are going in the oposite direction. New government is left wing. The constitutional court just legalized gay marriage few days ago. There will be more rights for emigrants, more free press. The fence on the border with Croatia will be removed soon. The unemployment is low.

There is no danger for abortion ban etc. Healthcare sistem is much better then in the Usa.

However there will be difficulties in economy. But that is a worldwide problem anyway.

I think your country is in a downward cycle, however it will go up again. I just don't know when...

[Hardkill]

So, then what should Americans like me do for the next decade or two?

[Bojan V]

@Hardkill

1 hour ago, Hardkill said:

So, then what should Americans like me do for the next decade or two?

I hope i am wrong, but maybe your username is an indicator of what you will have to do...

Edited July 11, 2022 by Bojan V

[BlueOak]

2 hours ago, Hardkill said:

So, then what should Americans like me do for the next decade or two?

People need to see how bad it will get while the reformist half of the liberal party is constantly ignored and put down. Where there is no pushback to the continued rise of the authoritarian right. You could accelerate the awareness of what abandoning the activist half of the party is doing to the country. The understanding will probably get there eventually on its own after some more suffering, that or your country will eventually have a third party break through the legal redtape, especially as the boomers eventually lose their grip on power. One of the defining trait of generation X was always not to be labeled, so if their time finally comes in power a third party is increasingly likely. But no amount of calling for unity while admonishing the progressive half of the liberal party will actually create it.

That's outward.

Inward you can look for a state that does more represent your values, it looks like states will be increasingly split as to the quality of life and values within them. If a place for you doesn't exist I hate to say but i'd move. Thankfully in America you have more choice as to where to move and if not easy access to canada. 

Though we value our rights more, we are not entirely different to America in the UK, and face a continued push of our politics to the right. I keep looking at Scandinavia myself as the quality of life there of workers seems to be in the top of anywhere in the world, up until recently I was strongly considering germany also because in previous crisis I'd always thought they'd managed them very sensibly. That has changed with their dependency on Russia, with them still going ahead on removing nuclear fuel. That's a huge misstep when these power sources need to be expanded to allow for a country to decide its own foreign policy. Canada was also a place I looked at for the quality of life, the relatively cheap value of land compared to here, and I seem to like Canadians as a people. 

 

[Razard86]

On 7/10/2022 at 1:07 AM, Hardkill said:

I get that devilry doesn't win in the long-run and there is hope that democracy in America will eventually be fully healed decades from now.

However, given that the right wing has already significantly damaged the democracy of the US and they will continue to damage it even further and further and further over the next few decades, should most Americans who are not rich and not white expect that A LOT more of their rights will taken away from them over the next decades?

Will something like the Jim Crow laws or nationwide ban on gay rights return in America for about a decade or so?

Will social safety nets such as Medicare, Social Security, Obamacare, etc. all be gone within the next few decades?

Jim Crow or bans on gay rights...I doubt that is happening. Majority of the young generation is pro gay rights so even if some states try it wouldn't last long.

Medicare, Social Security, and Obamacare is another story especially the first two. America has mismanaged its tax dollars so America does not have enough tax dollars to fund Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security for the Millennial Generation. If you don't save and prepare for retirement you are going to work until you die in America. Sounds fun huh?

[BlueOak]

9 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Jim Crow or bans on gay rights...I doubt that is happening. Majority of the young generation is pro gay rights so even if some states try it wouldn't last long.

Medicare, Social Security, and Obamacare is another story especially the first two. America has mismanaged its tax dollars so America does not have enough tax dollars to fund Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security for the Millennial Generation. If you don't save and prepare for retirement you are going to work until you die in America. Sounds fun huh?

Not to be too descriptive but if Texas bans two methods of intercourse as they are trying, then they largely ban gay people from having sex. A dozen other states have the same anti-sodomy law they can enforce. They don't need to ban gay marriage to persecute gay people. Contraception is also on the table for a ban.
 

This video is more reactive than i'd like but its true.

Most people would have been shocked abortion was under threat a few years ago, so yes its perfectly possible. I don't know how much more people need convincing. Your unelected court can decide policy, they've decided the EPA doesn't have the power to enforce anything like clean air.

So that's gay rights, trans rights, right to contraception environmental protection, child labor laws and other employment laws that I can think of. They don't care if its unpopular, they are a court, they are not elected and their position is for life.

Edited July 12, 2022 by BlueOak

[DocWatts]

If you are able to, consider donating your time or money to one of the organizations that's fighting this in the legal system, and providing relief to people who are being negativity impacted by these rulings.

A few good organizations to consider donating to:

• The ACLU
• OxFam
• National Network of Abortion Funds

While 'just voting' on its own is not enough, doing whatever you can to ensure that everyone you know comes out to vote in the mid-term elections will make it more difficult for Republicans to turn the country into a christo-fascist theocracy.

For the time being the battle for the continuance of democracy will be fought at the States, so become knowledge about local politics

Beyond that, some sort of large scale civil disobedience that leads to civil disruption is one of the few tools we have, but short of a general strike it's not clear how that would materialize.

If you live in an urban area, be prepared to defend your community and neighbors from fascist gangs like the Proud Boys and Patriot Front, since local law enforcement is often sympathetic to these groups and not interested in protecting citizens from them. Consider firearm ownsership, since if there's some sort of civil strife (ala a modern version of Bleeding Kansas) it would be better if fascists weren't the only ones who managed to arm themselves. And as Uvalde horrifically demonstrated, the police are not under any legal obligation to protect anyone.

Edited July 12, 2022 by DocWatts

[ZenAlex]

Move out of America, that's what I'd do. 

[Hardkill]

On 7/11/2022 at 2:19 PM, Razard86 said:

Jim Crow or bans on gay rights...I doubt that is happening. Majority of the young generation is pro gay rights so even if some states try it wouldn't last long.

Medicare, Social Security, and Obamacare is another story especially the first two. America has mismanaged its tax dollars so America does not have enough tax dollars to fund Medicare, Medicaid, or Social Security for the Millennial Generation. If you don't save and prepare for retirement you are going to work until you die in America. Sounds fun huh?

Actually, you're right about social injustices such as Jim Crow laws or bans on gay rights largely not coming back ever again. After contemplating more on this issue over the past week and having brushed up on my history of politics and US history, it would be impossible for something like to ever to come back.

It would also be impossible for most of the equal voting rights for non-white Americans to ever be abolished. This is because unlike the nationwide abortion rights, desegregation and equal voting rights for Americans of all races were codified by Congress during the 60s.

Also, the 1964 civil rights act which outlawed segregation everywhere in the country (except in schools) at the time needed a two-thirds majority in the Senate and a simple majority in the House to pass. Ultimately the bill was passed with overwhelming majorities and a significant amount of bipartisanship in both chambers of Congress. The Senate voted for cloture by a 71–29 vote, which was more than enough to overcome the filibuster and passed the bill by a 73–19 vote (which includes 47 Democrats who voted yes, 16 who voted no, 30 republicans who voted yes, and 2 republicans who voted no. As for the House of Representatives, 290 Democratic and Republicans representatives in the chamber voted yes, and 130 representatives who voted no. 

The 1965 Voting Rights Act, which prohibited the federal, state, or local governments all over America from having poll taxes, literacy tests, and many other racist bureaucratic restrictions on all black and brown voters in the south and anywhere else throughout the whole country was also passed with overwhelming majorities and a significant amount of bipartisanship in both chambers of Congress. The Senate voted for cloture by a 70–30 vote, which was more than enough to overcome the filibuster and passed the bill by a 77–19 vote (which includes 47 Democrats who voted yes, 16 who voted no, 30 republicans who voted yes, and 2 republicans who voted no. As for the House of Representatives, 333 Democratic and Republicans representatives in the chamber voted yes, and 85 representatives who voted no. 

Plus, there's the Twenty-fourth Amendment (Amendment XXIV) of the US constitutional amendment, which bans Congress or any of the states to enact any kind of laws that allow any of kind to occur poll taxes on any one throughout the entire country no matter what any one's reasons or argument for having poll taxes are. This amendment was ratified in 1964, which needed the requisite two-thirds majorities in the House and Senate two-thirds of majorities in the House and Senate. After that, it needed a solid majority of each of the state legislatures to sign off on it as well. It got passed in the House with 295 Dem and Repub representatives who voted yes and 86 Dem and Repub representatives who voted no. It got passed in the Senate with 77 Dem and Repub senators who voted yes and 16 Dem and Repub senators who voted no. Afterwards, each of the states ratified the amendments with overwhelming majorities and great bipartisan support within each of the state legislatures throughout the whole country.

Plus, all of these laws have been amended several times over by Congress and president several times within the last 5 decades. 

Furthermore, there probably have already been way too many courts cases over the past 50+ years that already been ruled in favor by countless  courts from the local level to the highest level of the courts throughout the whole USA for keeping all of the major or core provisions of each of these laws.

Plus, with regard to the culture of current society, even though there are still a lot of racists in America, I believe that a solid majority of people in the US don't believe in racial desegregation or having the levels of racial discrimination that occurred in the mid 1900s or any time before that. We of course can't forget that America already twice elected the first black POTUS in all of US history (Obama even won his first presidential election in a landslide, and his second one decisively), and just elected the very woman of color VPOTUS in all of US history about a year and a half ago. Not to mention that the amount of other non-white people that having been holding all other various kinds of high level government positions has kept growing even after Obama left office.

Lastly, conservatives have never in US history ever had a massive majority in either chamber Congress (Except in the House during one 2-year period in the early 1920s).

Therefore, there's absolutely no way that any conservative or Republicans fascist would ever have anywhere near the level of support they would need to be able to bring back Jim Crow to level that happened long ago. 

As for nationwide gay rights, Congress never codified that into law. So, that still vulnerable to being struck down by SCOTUS.

Regarding, Medicare and Obamacare, I am no longer worried about those being totally eliminated. There was always way too much support for Medicare since the 60s and conservatives have proven for well over a decade that they are unable to repeal it all through Congress (except for the individual mandate) or get it struck down by any of the courts. Even SCOTUS last year, which had 6 conservative justices on the bench, ruled 7-2 in favor of keeping it. So, there's no way that the core of that act will ever be gone.

I am now very worried about what the EPA can do now and what will happen to it in the future.

[Razard86]

On 7/12/2022 at 2:46 AM, BlueOak said:

Not to be too descriptive but if Texas bans two methods of intercourse as they are trying, then they largely ban gay people from having sex. A dozen other states have the same anti-sodomy law they can enforce. They don't need to ban gay marriage to persecute gay people. Contraception is also on the table for a ban.
 

This video is more reactive than i'd like but its true.

Most people would have been shocked abortion was under threat a few years ago, so yes its perfectly possible. I don't know how much more people need convincing. Your unelected court can decide policy, they've decided the EPA doesn't have the power to enforce anything like clean air.

So that's gay rights, trans rights, right to contraception environmental protection, child labor laws and other employment laws that I can think of. They don't care if its unpopular, they are a court, they are not elected and their position is for life.

Again like I said earlier none of these changes will be long lasting. Think of this as the last fight of a dying beast. The generation in power determines the laws. All the people doing this are not the millennials, once the millennials take office in all of the major branches all of these things are going to be overturned so I don't even care. 

Its the money problems that is going to be more of an issue for this country.

[Razard86]

28 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Actually, you're right about social injustices such as Jim Crow laws or bans on gay rights largely not coming back ever again. After contemplating more on this issue over the past week and having brushed up on my history of politics and US history, it would be impossible for something like to ever to come back.

It would also be impossible for most of the equal voting rights for non-white Americans to ever be abolished. This is because unlike the nationwide abortion rights, desegregation and equal voting rights for Americans of all races were codified by Congress during the 60s.

Also, the 1964 civil rights act which outlawed segregation everywhere in the country (except in schools) at the time needed a two-thirds majority in the Senate and a simple majority in the House to pass. Ultimately the bill was passed with overwhelming majorities and a significant amount of bipartisanship in both chambers of Congress. The Senate voted for cloture by a 71–29 vote, which was more than enough to overcome the filibuster and passed the bill by a 73–19 vote (which includes 47 Democrats who voted yes, 16 who voted no, 30 republicans who voted yes, and 2 republicans who voted no. As for the House of Representatives, 290 Democratic and Republicans representatives in the chamber voted yes, and 130 representatives who voted no. 

The 1965 Voting Rights Act, which prohibited the federal, state, or local governments all over America from having poll taxes, literacy tests, and many other racist bureaucratic restrictions on all black and brown voters in the south and anywhere else throughout the whole country was also passed with overwhelming majorities and a significant amount of bipartisanship in both chambers of Congress. The Senate voted for cloture by a 70–30 vote, which was more than enough to overcome the filibuster and passed the bill by a 77–19 vote (which includes 47 Democrats who voted yes, 16 who voted no, 30 republicans who voted yes, and 2 republicans who voted no. As for the House of Representatives, 333 Democratic and Republicans representatives in the chamber voted yes, and 85 representatives who voted no. 

Plus, there's the Twenty-fourth Amendment (Amendment XXIV) of the US constitutional amendment, which bans Congress or any of the states to enact any kind of laws that allow any of kind to occur poll taxes on any one throughout the entire country no matter what any one's reasons or argument for having poll taxes are. This amendment was ratified in 1964, which needed the requisite two-thirds majorities in the House and Senate two-thirds of majorities in the House and Senate. After that, it needed a solid majority of each of the state legislatures to sign off on it as well. It got passed in the House with 295 Dem and Repub representatives who voted yes and 86 Dem and Repub representatives who voted no. It got passed in the Senate with 77 Dem and Repub senators who voted yes and 16 Dem and Repub senators who voted no. Afterwards, each of the states ratified the amendments with overwhelming majorities and great bipartisan support within each of the state legislatures throughout the whole country.

Plus, all of these laws have been amended several times over by Congress and president several times within the last 5 decades. 

Furthermore, there probably have already been way too many courts cases over the past 50+ years that already been ruled in favor by countless  courts from the local level to the highest level of the courts throughout the whole USA for keeping all of the major or core provisions of each of these laws.

Plus, with regard to the culture of current society, even though there are still a lot of racists in America, I believe that a solid majority of people in the US don't believe in racial desegregation or having the levels of racial discrimination that occurred in the mid 1900s or any time before that. We of course can't forget that America already twice elected the first black POTUS in all of US history (Obama even won his first presidential election in a landslide, and his second one decisively), and just elected the very woman of color VPOTUS in all of US history about a year and a half ago. Not to mention that the amount of other non-white people that having been holding all other various kinds of high level government positions has kept growing even after Obama left office.

Lastly, conservatives have never in US history ever had a massive majority in either chamber Congress (Except in the House during one 2-year period in the early 1920s).

Therefore, there's absolutely no way that any conservative or Republicans fascist would ever have anywhere near the level of support they would need to be able to bring back Jim Crow to level that happened long ago. 

As for nationwide gay rights, Congress never codified that into law. So, that still vulnerable to being struck down by SCOTUS.

Regarding, Medicare and Obamacare, I am no longer worried about those being totally eliminated. There was always way too much support for Medicare since the 60s and conservatives have proven for well over a decade that they are unable to repeal it all through Congress (except for the individual mandate) or get it struck down by any of the courts. Even SCOTUS last year, which had 6 conservative justices on the bench, ruled 7-2 in favor of keeping it. So, there's no way that the core of that act will ever be gone.

I am now very worried about what the EPA can do now and what will happen to it in the future.

Very well written post. Informative, historical, good narrative. 

I'm more concerned about the economic state of Millennials when they hit retirement age.

[Hardkill]

36 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Very well written post. Informative, historical, good narrative. 

I'm more concerned about the economic state of Millennials when they hit retirement age.

Yes, I definitely think that along with what's going to happen to our natural environment are cause for real concern. This is all because both the Democratic Party and Republican Party shifted to the right.

The majority of Democrats became Neoliberals starting in the 70s and then by the early 90s shifted even to the right economically and militarily by becoming the centrist corporate Dems that still exist to this day. This is due to both the exponential increase in corporate lobbying within the Democratic Party since the late 1900s and the Party having to shift more to the center in some way in order to compete with Republicans on a national level after being dominated by the conservative resurgence and Reaganism within the country for over 12 years. 

The GOP particularly shifted so far to the right both economically and socially, starting in the late 60s to early 70s, beginning with the Nixon campaign's racist southern strategy after LBJ, the Democrats, and the civil rights movements successfully ended all segregation, won real full US citizenship, major reduction in racial discrimination, and real equal voting rights for all colored people throughout the entire country. The southern strategy worked by using racist dog whistle statements that won over the racist southern and rural democrats who already were prepared to leave the Democratic Party out of resentment for the passage of the Civil Rights and Voting Right Acts and their own party's increasingly liberal stance on racial integration since the late 40s. Then in the mid 70s, the party shifted even further to the right by appealing to even more swaths of conservative voters on conservative cultural issues including anti-abortion, pro-gun rights, and climate change denial. The party shifted even further to the right economically, militarily, and socially during the late 70s to early 80s due to the rise of conservatism and Reaganism all over America. Afterwards, Newt Gingrich and his followers in the 90s took Republican Party even further to right with his Contract with America agenda and pre-Trumpian way of undermining democratic norms and making his party even more noticeably polarizing and hostile than before. At the same time, the voter demographics at the state level in the southern and rural areas of the country became even more Republican. During Obama's presidency, the Republicans particularly those such as McConnell, significantly increased their obstructionism by vowing to stop as much as of Obama's centre-left agenda as possible. Finally, Trumpism as we all know took right-wing extremism in the party to a whole new level with his racial demagoguery and fake right wing populism.

As result, the vast majority of Republicans are not willing to do anything save our natural environment from climate change and provide enough funding for social safety nets such as social security. The conservative justices in SCOTUS and in many of the other federal courts out there have currently greatly limited the government's ability to fix these issues. What makes this even more depressing is that we still don't have enough Democrats in power who are willing to fight against climate change.