Do Psychedelics Make Me More Conscious?

[UnbornTao]

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by UnbornTao

[puporing]

It's amplification of what's close to your awareness/grasping. Like going through the "next door" but you can't skip doors. I've met plenty of psych users who just imagine more stuff and not getting to any kind of truth...coz they're not actually interested in that, mostly interested in having some experience, or healing from a psychological problem. So in that case no matter how much psych you take it's likely not gonna help getting you closer to truth.. in fact it can even make you more trapped in dream if you're not aware and become yet another distraction from truth.

The other issue potentially is that if you haven't gotten good at identifying what's true, and just take everything on trips as absolute truth is also problematic, coz if your mind is biased for something then it's gonna get amplified. So being able to distinguish things post trips is also crucial. 

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by puporing

[UnbornTao]

On 7/9/2022 at 3:34 AM, puporing said:

So being able to distinguish things post trips is also crucial. 

Then you're invalidating the possibility of drugs producing enlightenment.

Enlightenment happens now.

Edited July 12, 2022 by UnbornTao

[Thought Art]

I can say, that if you are contemplating, meditating and reading and you are grounded and healthy.. Experiencing these higher states can increase consciousness.

How do you know someone is more conscious or less conscious just by looking at them? 

Why is he making such a clear distinction between states and consciousness. ?

He makes a good point about, if you practice boxing you know a lot about it. If you contemplate you know a lot about it because you've done it a lot. However, he doesn't seem to extend this same idea to the psychonaut.  So, at around 12 minutes he starts making an equal defense for psychedelics and an argument against his earily comments... Which were ambivalent. 

He makes a good point, if you are in an altered state are you really more conscious? Be honest with yourself about it. 

He says, investigate your awareness. Good points. He talks about how awareness is stable in sober states. "Get it for yourself" he says. 

He kind moves like Leo lol. At the end he basically goes off topic.

He sort of answered "No" to the questions of psychedelics, though there was a bit of "Maybe" mixed in. Then he just talked about his own contemplation practice, the need for your own direct experience and then he rambled about elron humbard. 

He says "Don't believe me. Discover it for yourself"

So, yeah. Thats true. Don't ask him about psychedelics figure it out yourself.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Thought Art

[UnbornTao]

On 7/11/2022 at 0:31 AM, JoeVolcano said:

That was like 18 minutes of nothing. He literally didn't actually say anything. Just 18 minutes of talking without actually saying something. Saying nothing while talking but really just talking while saying nothing. See what I'm saying. Like poof, nothing. But sounding like something. But when you get right to it, grasp the enlightenment of the thing in your direct consciousness then zzzzzzp what the fuck it's just nothing, right? Right. So anyway. Whatever.

Cheers

Elaborate your stance please.

Brendan has contemplated a lot. He also has had enlightenment experiences and tried 5-MeO. He said that that's not it.

Why weren't Timothy Leary and Shasha Grey enlightened? They consumed psyches. extensively. The former was especially committed to using them in order to become enlightened. However, he ultimately didn't achieve it.

Edited July 12, 2022 by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

1 minute ago, UnbornTao said:

 

Why weren't Timothy Leary and Shasha Grey enlightened? 

Lol not Sasha Grey. What was that guy called? 

What was I thinking? ?

[RMQualtrough]

They alter your perception to an astronomical degree. The bizarre visuals and such are a sideshow, and on very intense trips I can't explain that element anyway except by sort of word association... Like uh... Glue. Plasticine fingers. Army soldier figurine fingers. POP. Traffic lights....... Etc etc.

The shift in perspective that can happen I also don't think is describable. You can describe ego death though. And also the cessation of seeing segments but the whole. So the objects surrounding you, instead of "chair, jacket, fan" etc becomes "reality, reality, reality"... But as said the psychotic type stuff, I don't think you can really capture that.

I think that's all the drugs do in terms of what you're discussing.

[UnbornTao]

On 7/11/2022 at 1:06 AM, JoeVolcano said:

@UnbornTao Sorry, I wasn't commenting on his stance on psychedelics, I was just watching him blabber like a Ralston clone and I couldn't stop laughing.  

(no disrespect to Ralston).

 

Richard Alpert?

OK.

Sasha Shulgin

Edited July 12, 2022 by UnbornTao

[Thought Art]

@JoeVolcano Yeah, it’s tricky business. Who we think is or isn’t conscious depends on our own consciousness. 

[puporing]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

So then you're invalidating that drugs produce enlightenment?

No I'm not invalidating that it expedites awakening, probably by an astronomical degree. But one has to do the work of deconstructing as well. I'm saying there're many different kinds of intentions and uses with psychedelics most don't produce awakening, and that might be what Brendan is referring to/knows about here.

A distorted mind will have those distortions amplified, like imagining more of "the other" for example.

And then the embodiment aspect which also takes work/integration that is not at all guaranteed by just having awakenings. This is prob why manual meditation tend to produce more embodiment because of the long and tendious journey one has to take on and the more disciplined environment it happens in, vs expediting it with psychedelics.

Edited July 11, 2022 by puporing

[Salvijus]

"There are no degrees of consciouness and no drug can ever alter or affect consciouness in any way and will not be able to do that in any time in the future".

That's a decent argument and I agree with it. But drugs can alter the ego. It can (potentially in some cases) eliminate the influence and contractions of the ego and remove the veils that make the realization of the absolute eternal reality difficult.

So yea. There're no degrees of consciouness. But there are degrees of ego trancendence. The more ego is trancendenced and deeper depth of absolute gets realized...  this one argument would be enough to debunk what brandon and ralston says about psychedelics imo.

Tho i still don't support psychedelics because they have other problems with it. Sometimes i wonder if ralston understands that, but is just playing coy for people's benefit. Almost every legit guru do these tricks in my view.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Salvijus

[Leo Gura]

This is so wrong I can only Lol.

Not wise to listen to psychedelic dabblers.

[Salvijus]

@JoeVolcano ?

[Thought Art]

11 hours ago, Salvijus said:

 

So yea. There're no degrees of consciouness. 

 

Tell this to your cat

[UnbornTao]

18 hours ago, JoeVolcano said:

Because they didn't know what it was.

On 7/11/2022 at 1:08 AM, JoeVolcano said:

 

Because psychedelics don't produce it.

The only way to know what enlightenment is is to become enlightened for yourself.

Edited July 12, 2022 by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

2 minutes ago, JoeVolcano said:

Right, like I said you can't expect to take a pill and think you know what's going on. There should be no surprise about this.

But nothing produces it. Contemplation or meditation also don't produce it, if you don't know what the hell you're doing.

So there goes that argument.

Cheers

You produce it.

Contemplation is what happens while you're becoming conscious. 

[UnbornTao]

@Salvijus 

Those terms (consciousness and awareness) are often used interchangeably. A vague use of them can be problematic.

The author makes a clear distinction between them while others don't most of the time. If you fail to differentiate between them, you may then believe that dramatically increasing awareness is the same as becoming enlightened.

Edited November 8, 2022 by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

@Thought Art I think the argument here is that, unless your mind makes them up, degrees don't exist for themselves out there.

There's only Consciousness. Without a mind to interpret and make sense, degrees don't emerge by themselves. Which isn't to say that realization is an off/on switch.

Edited November 8, 2022 by UnbornTao

[Salvijus]

What a hell is going on here. 

Mash potatoes.

[Thought Art]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

@Thought Art Seems to me the argument here is that unless you're mind makes them up, degrees don't "exist."

There's only consciousness. Without a mind to interpret and make sense, degrees don't emerge. Which isn't to say that, relatively speaking, one cannot be superficially or deeply enlightened, or that it is a matter of an off/on switch.

Yes, I realize that. Everything that is, is equally consciousness as anything else.

But, you as a conscious being can increase your ability to be more and more aware, of conscious of God, Reality, Truth and many finite relative aspects of reality. 
 

You can become more conscious of things than others through spiritual practices. A human may be conscious but lives very unconsciously. 
 

The homeless drug addict or the man full of hate is less conscious than the sage or prophet. 
 

David R. Hawkins has a neato map of the levels of consciousness and… even if it’s not perfect… psychedelics do in fact reveal the higher states and pull you out of the lower ones. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Thought Art