The One Thing that Makes it Easier

[Devin]

I think the single biggest thing I've found that makes it easier for deep happiness, joy, loving period; is leaving.

Leaving everyone you know behind. And it seems to be the greatest hindrance if you don't.

I'm curious, was anyone in a life situation where you think it was neutral or positive to stay? Or has everyone felt the same as myself?

And do you also think it's the single most powerful thing?

[flowboy]

Leave a toxic family system.

Leave toxic friendships.

 

Leave everyone..?

That sounds like escapism.

Wherever you go, there you are.

[Devin]

8 minutes ago, flowboy said:

Leave a toxic family system.

Leave toxic friendships.

 

Leave everyone..?

That sounds like escapism.

Wherever you go, there you are.

Not permanently, but until you find peace; then you want to be with people and loving sacrifice feels fulfilling.

But you answered my question; No. You seem like a very healthy minded individual, are you anxious though, and just figured out how to conceal it?

Edited July 8, 2022 by Devin

[flowboy]

My money is on escapism.

Nothing wrong with some good old-fashioned escapism every once in a while.

Everyone deserves an experience of peace.

Don't elevate it into a spiritual, high-consciousness thing.

Eventually you'll have to face what you're running from.

Which is what?

[Devin]

2 minutes ago, flowboy said:

My money is on escapism.

Nothing wrong with some good old-fashioned escapism every once in a while.

Everyone deserves an experience of peace.

Don't elevate it into a spiritual, high-consciousness thing.

Eventually you'll have to face what you're running from.

Which is what?

Myself of course, I think eliminating the distractions let's you more easily process what still comes with you. Leaving alone isn't the end.

You answered my question though; No. You seem like a very healthy minded individual, but are you anxious and just figured out how to conceal it? You still seem attached to superficial societal values (worldly accomplishments). I haven't read a ton of your posts though, so I'm sincerely asking.

My understanding of escapism is finding something to distract yourself from looking at your "problem". I think I did the opposite.

[flowboy]

24 minutes ago, Devin said:

You still seem attached to superficial societal values (worldly accomplishments).

That's your shadow talking.

25 minutes ago, Devin said:

You seem like a very healthy minded individual, but are you anxious and just figured out how to conceal it?

I'm not anxious. I have a long track record of facing my fears head-on.

I'm also very much a work in progress. I deal with ego backlashes, binges of unhealthy stuff, lapses in discipline, shame, self deception, and other challenges on a regular basis. I do my best to work through everything that comes up using the techniques I know and more importantly the support of friends, therapists, and coaches I trust, which produces learning, which I then am able to put back into my work helping others.

[flowboy]

33 minutes ago, Devin said:

My understanding of escapism is finding something to distract yourself from looking at your "problem". I think I did the opposite.

It can be very useful to distance yourself, find peace, to get perspective and insight on the situation.

I'm not judging what you are doing one way or another, I have not enough information to understand what you even mean

I'm just responding to the very generalised "Is leaving the most important thing" to which I would say no.

[Devin]

34 minutes ago, flowboy said:

That's your shadow talking.

I definitely still have superficial societal values creep up and I can get anxious when they do. I can feel them melting away though, as I keep cutting through my ignorance.

34 minutes ago, flowboy said:

I'm not anxious. I have a long track record of facing my fears head-on.

I'm also very much a work in progress. I deal with ego backlashes, binges of unhealthy stuff, lapses in discipline, shame, self deception, and other challenges on a regular basis. I do my best to work through everything that comes up using the techniques I know and more importantly the support of friends, therapists, and coaches I trust, which produces learning, which I then am able to put back into my work helping others.

You have long periods during normal life where you don't think there's some underlying anxiety, although not front and center, but something you still slightly sense is lurking?

I don't see how I could have gotten to that point without leaving, although I was in a toxic family and had maybe what you consider mildly toxic friends, I see toxicity in everyone.

I plan on seeing a therapist(been planning this for years though) I just feel like it will be a waste of time and possibly counter productive. Maybe a fear to face head on though, I feel like they could screw you up.

32 minutes ago, flowboy said:

It can be very useful to distance yourself, find peace, to get perspective and insight on the situation.

I'm not judging what you are doing one way or another, I have not enough information to understand what you even mean

I'm just responding to the very generalised "Is leaving the most important thing" to which I would say no.

Thank you, I appreciate the detailed response, the only reason I made the thread is because I am unsure. I mean leave every relationship.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Devin

[flowboy]

1 hour ago, Devin said:

I definitely still have superficial societal values creep up and I can get anxious when they do. I can feel them melting away though, as I keep cutting through my ignorance.

Still your shadow talking.

Your shadow is in the judgment of those values. "superficial", "ignorance" - that's the shadow.

1 hour ago, Devin said:

You have long periods during normal life where you don't think there's some underlying anxiety, although not front and center, but something you still slightly sense is lurking?

Nothing is lurking for me and I don't experience anxiety currently.

1 hour ago, Devin said:

I plan on seeing a therapist(been planning this for years though) I just feel like it will be a waste of time and possibly counter productive. Maybe a fear to face head on though, I feel like they could screw you up.

What is your goal with it? Why would they be able to screw you up?

[gettoefl]

leaving is escapism denial supression

stay

your triggers are your teachers

in the cave you will feel spiritual but you aren't and if you leave the cave you will see so

[Kksd74628]

@Devin

There is a benefit in both having social circle around you and being completely alone. If you have lot of interactions with people you learn to build confidence to express yourself fully and your loving skills. Almost all relationships and friendships teach you valuable lessons if you are just open to learn from them. In the other hand if you want to level down and practice on easier environment first you could just be with yourself meditating and contemplating for a while. Still being with humans is just better if you don't get distracted too much with their stupidity. Just know that they don't know better.

-joNi-

[Devin]

1 hour ago, flowboy said:

Still your shadow talking.

Your shadow is in the judgment of those values. "superficial", "ignorance" - that's the shadow.

Nothing is lurking for me and I don't experience anxiety currently.

What is your goal with it? Why would they be able to screw you up?

I don't know anything about what you're referring to as my shadow, I'll look into that.

My goal with a therapist would be to reveal what I'm missing, what I can't see. I think they can screw you up by sending you into a rabbit hole, offering an attractive distraction like having me question things.

I can really withdraw into thinking, so I'm cautious about what I start to think about, a lot of it if not all of it seems like a waste of time and energy to me, I think just feeling seems to be the better approach, not converting feelings into words, words are so flimsy, you can never truly come to an end.

Thanks

[puporing]

It's more like the feeling of solipsism.. you may be around some people (very few in my case), it's always this conscious awareness that the seperation is an illusion, dream characters. But they're not aware that it is (usually), nor the awareness of their true nature as God. And this comes all the egoic driven things they're doing and expect you to do also. So with most people you have to put on an act of their stories and being in the seperation. That can be exhausting so that's the main thing that makes me enjoy being "alone" more often than not.

Edited July 8, 2022 by puporing

[Devin]

36 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

leaving is escapism denial supression

stay

your triggers are your teachers

in the cave you will feel spiritual but you aren't and if you leave the cave you will see so

Yeah I don't believe in leaving forever, just until you lose the insanity.

[Devin]

7 minutes ago, puporing said:

It's more like the feeling of solipsism.. so even though you may be around some people (very few in my case), it's always this conscious awareness that the seperation is an illusion. But they're not aware that it is (usually). So with most people you have to put on an act of their stories and being in the seperation.

The only way I notice it is when I leave, but I notice the beliefs I pick up from others, and I notice how they were weighing me down.

[Devin]

@flowboy from what I'm reading on shadow(jung) is it's a quality(usually negative) in your blindspot(unconscious). But I know I still have hooks in me for common social values and that I have ignorance, so what could it be in my shadow that you're referring to?

[gettoefl]

49 minutes ago, Devin said:

Yeah I don't believe in leaving forever, just until you lose the insanity.

for a season is great, am looking forward to a 10-day vipasanna retreat the end of the month

[Devin]

5 hours ago, flowboy said:

 

I'm also very much a work in progress. I deal with ego backlashes, binges of unhealthy stuff, lapses in discipline, shame, self deception, and other challenges on a regular basis. I do my best to work through everything that comes up using the techniques I know and more importantly the support of friends, therapists, and coaches I trust, which produces learning, which I then am able to put back into my work helping others.

I don't know if you want it from me but I'll offer you my experience on some of the things you're working on since you're helping me. This is my experience not my advice, I don't believe in following advice, I try to listen to my intuition.

Unhealthy stuff, discipline, shame(seems tied to the former)

What works for me is just going with it, it gets worse but it seems to teach you what you need to learn. The willpower thing for me prolongs the underlying issue, letting go of the belief(healthy, production, shame) happens when I let it hit me hard, sometimes going to rock bottom, then I'm no longer afraid of health, production, shame.

When you're in it deep and then you get a glimmer of joy or bliss popping up spontaneously, it's like the beliefs just fall off like chains. You were the one chaining yourself to health and as counterintuitive as it seems, that causes you to be unhealthy. It seems like a self correcting mechanism in us for positive beliefs, yes they're positive and helpful in society, but they are still beliefs, and all beliefs are limiting.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Devin

[Devin]

4 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

for a season is great, am looking forward to a 10-day vipasanna retreat the end of the month

took me years, but a retreat sounds nice.

[gettoefl]

16 minutes ago, Devin said:

took me years, but a retreat sounds nice.

the continuum from isolation to strong boundaries is a good one to contemplate, strong boundaries can keep out unhelpful energy