If you are satisfied, you are doing it wrong

[Ulax]

I think there's some value to what you say.

However, I think it is more of a spiral dynamics thing. It sounds very orange like to me, mixed with some endorsements of other stages.

I think its important to remember that tier 1 stages are not merely to be moved through, but integrated with other stages. Otherwise, one is left with a shadow, which can cause things to happen in their which people tend to usually not want to happen.

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I would also wonder about what your definition of suffering. On a meditation retreat, some time ago now, a monk proffered that suffering was the result of pain + resistance to pain. We worked, during the retreat, on placing awareness on the pain, whilst doing strong determination sitting. The result sought was to no longer resist the pain, and therefore suffering was avoided.

So, in this context, if I were to love my suffering as you advise, would I really be suffering anymore? Or would I simply be aware of my pain. So, perhaps, it is pain you want to remain, rather than suffering.

[r0ckyreed]

14 hours ago, Christoph Werner said:

Why not grow out of love for something and at the same time always be satisfied?

Stated that question and answer in my original post.

There is a difference between loving yourself and being complacent/satisfied. 

It really depends on what you are meaning by satisfaction. If you being satisfied means that you are complacent, satisfied with just eating junk food and watching movies, then satisfaction is an obstacle. Like I keep saying, if you are happy where you are at, then you will stay there. But if you want to live up to your full potential, that is gonna take a lot of work and suffering to attain.

Whatever goal you have in life, you gotta ask how much am I willing to suffer for this goal? It’s important to have realistic expectations. 

If you aren’t where you wanna be in life, then don’t be satisfied with that. Go after your dreams and fight for them. Of course you always wanna strive to be satisfied with yourself existentially speaking, but I am focusing on circumstances. 

 

 

 

 

[Christoph Werner]

@r0ckyreed To me it sounds like you are justifying your suffering here through building an identity of someone who will suffer to reach his full potential, who is above mediocrity. Do you feel guilty when you're not suffering to work on your goals?

The story that you need to do something or achieve something or be a certain way in order to feel satisfied is an illusion. It's a story of the egomind. Like this the ego can delay satisfaction, always change the narrative of what needs to be done to feel satisfaction. And it is a black hole, because you can never satisfy the fantasies of the ego mind. Also this then manifests in your body. If you buy into this story a sensation of lack and incompletness will manifest in your body. Probably something like a hole in your stomach. 

Now there is also the possibility to let go of stories of lack and needing to be a certain way to feel satisfaction. If you truly let go of these beliefs you will find true satisfaction from seeing that you are already complete. 

And then if you choose to you can strive to improve yourself. But it will come through a motivation of love for something.

I'm conpletely  happy where I am, yet I'm striving to be better in Order to share this happyness with as many people as I can.

 

 

[r0ckyreed]

 

16 hours ago, Ulax said:

would also wonder about what your definition of suffering.

I see suffering as being of the body, which I think of as pain and discomfort. Then, there is also suffering of the mind, which I think is dissatisfaction, unhappiness, depression, greed, anger, etc. Basically taking the present moment for granted and not liking it.

16 hours ago, Ulax said:

So, in this context, if I were to love my suffering as you advise, would I really be suffering anymore? Or would I simply be aware of my pain. So, perhaps, it is pain you want to remain, rather than suffering.

Yes. What I’m talking about here is learning to accept what naturally arises. So I am speaking learning to love the suffering of the body, pain/discomfort. And learning to accept and love yourself when you are frustrated, sad, or whatever as a natural consequence to things that can happen. If your house burns down, people you love die, or you fall and break your leg, you are naturally going to suffer if you care about those things: your house, family, and your health. And that is okay to feel those emotions. When I say love your suffering, I mean to give yourself love as if you loved a child when they are suffering, so self-compassion.

I am saying that you can always see the magic of life and fall in love with it and still experience all the emotions too. In fact, I suggest it is important to be emotionally sensitive and not closed off like I used to believe. I used to take a Jedi approach where you were always calm and happy and never expressed any other “negative” emotions. The thing is to never lose sight of maintaining self-control and self-love when feeling frustrated or fear or sadness, etc. A deeper level of love is to love all the emotions you feel, not just the “good” ones. The “negative” ones can give you great power and can keep you on track, but if your not careful, they can break you. Even positive emotions can also break you. Too much positivity can collapse into negativity if not careful.

16 hours ago, JoeVolcano said:

As far as I know, those who have ostensibly transcended suffering function much more efficiently, effectively, and effortlessly.

What does it mean to “transcend suffering?” Do you still feel fear, sadness, pain, etc.?

4 hours ago, Christoph Werner said:

To me it sounds like you are justifying your suffering here through building an identity of someone who will suffer to reach his full potential, who is above mediocrity

That’s right. I am willing to put in the work to achieve my goals, but I still backslide in my pursuits. This is normal. To me, it is okay to be frustrated with backsliding. But like I say, never lose sight of loving yourself fully, which I see as accepting yourself and striving to improve. 

I don’t think I’m above mediocrity. I think I am exceptional at some things, but am mediocre in other areas. I strive to be exceptional in all things that matter to me.

The hard paradox is if I am satisfied and complete as I am, how do I improve? Doesn’t improvement imply something isn’t complete? If it is perfect, why improve it? The thing is that I am complete as I am already. Improvement is something I give to myself because I love how complete I am already and know the potential of more that I can do with time. The default position is complacency which is being satisfied with no striving to improve.

4 hours ago, Christoph Werner said:

The story that you need to do something or achieve something or be a certain way in order to feel satisfied is an illusion. It's a story of the egomind.

I agree. No amount of achievement will ever satisfy you if you cannot be happy with yourself now. What I am saying is that satisfaction for life is critical, but being satisfied with no aim to improve (complacency) is a trap. If I run for an hour and meditate for an hour very deeply, I will strive to improve that. My goal is to have fun, enjoy the process, but also to improve as well. I set high standards for myself. If I don’t follow through on it, I am dissatisfied. Not in myself, but in my performance.

4 hours ago, Christoph Werner said:

If you truly let go of these beliefs you will find true satisfaction from seeing that you are already complete. 

And then if you choose to you can strive to improve yourself. But it will come through a motivation of love for something.

I'm conpletely  happy where I am, yet I'm striving to be better in Order to share this happyness with as many people as I can.

I totally agree. Maybe I was unclear in my communication. But what I was saying is yes, the deepest levels of satisfaction come from within but that it is okay to experience dissatisfaction to help you grow. Not dissatisfaction in yourself, but in your performance. That is the key that I was trying to illustrate. Always love yourself and accept the performance you gave, but don’t be satisfied with it if it doesn’t live up to your standards. Set high standards for yourself to honor your life is basically what I am saying. Aim for the sun. If you land on a moon, keep going and enjoy the ride. Yes, you are complete even if you land on a moon, but the sun is where you are fully blossomed. A seed is perfect and complete as it is, but if the seed wishes to become the highest of what it is, it will have to be willing to bear through droughts, heavy rain, wind, and storms. The same is with us. At least I think.

Edited July 9, 2022 by r0ckyreed

[Christoph Werner]

4 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

I totally agree. Maybe I was unclear in my communication. But what I was saying is yes, the deepest levels of satisfaction come from within but that it is okay to experience dissatisfaction to help you grow. Not dissatisfaction in yourself, but in your performance. That is the key that I was trying to illustrate. Always love yourself and accept the performance you gave, but don’t be satisfied with it if it doesn’t live up to your standards. Set high standards for yourself to honor your life is basically what I am saying. Aim for the sun. If you land on a moon, keep going and enjoy the ride. Yes, you are complete even if you land on a moon, but the sun is where you are fully blossomed. A seed is perfect and complete as it is, but if the seed wishes to become the highest of what it is, it will have to be willing to bear through droughts, heavy rain, wind, and storms. The same is with us. At least I think.

@r0ckyreed I respect your mindset. However there is also the possibility of letting go of the self that needs to be loved ("always love yourself")  and discover the Self that is love.

And if you merge with the Self you probably will choose to always grow and improve your vehicle, in fact have goals that you can never reach. At the same time there will be zero need for any dissatisfaction with anything.

 

[UnbornTao]

Start by recognizing there's nothing wrong with you as a being.

Also, pursue life-long learning and personal development for their own sake. Your motivation should be a positive one, to become conscious and develop mastery. Do not ground yourself on a negative purpose. I mean, you can but it isn't recommended.

Also: When are you going to be happy? Be happy now, and grow as a person. They are not mutually exclusive.