The Thematic Hierarchy, Spiral Dynamics and MBTI

[Artsu]

I've changed some of the names so I'm going to post this again.

Definitions/descriptions are still in the works. I'll post them some time next year if interest is shown.

 

A reminder again that the cognitive function listed refers to the theme of that level, not to which types are at that level.

 

Level - name - cognitive function - spiral dynamics level

 

0. Instincts, pre-cognitive, Beige

 

Lower levels - Opinion

1. Appearance, Se, Purple/Red

2. Convention, Si, Blue

3. Success, Te, Lower Orange

4. Modelling, Ti, Upper Orange

5. Community, Fe, Lower Green

6. Introspection, Fi, Upper Green

7. Experimental, Ne, Yellow

8. Holistic, Ni, Turquoise

 

Higher levels - Fact - Post-integral

9. The Now, Se

10. Verification, Si

11. Mission, Te

12. Axiom, Ti

13. Behavioural, Fe

14. Motif, Fi

15. Consequential, Ne

16. Wisdom, Ni

 

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Artsu

[CultivateLove]

It's a lot like this type of art, when looked at from one specific angle, it portrays a pretty clear picture, but when looked at from any other angle, it's just a bunch of strings and pieces.

It's just such a vague model (if you can even call it that), that if you start to actually think about it, it falls apart from pretty much every perspective.

Edited November 19, 2022 by CultivateLove

[Majed]

@Artsu you're right i know people who are stage green progressives (focused outward) and others who are stage green introspective (focused inward) the introspective ones sounds way more mature and developed to me, but i am not sure if it is only because of spiral development or that it has to do with their genetics and personality, environment, age, sexe or whatever.... or maybe it's both.

[Artsu]

8 hours ago, Majed said:

@Artsu you're right i know people who are stage green progressives (focused outward) and others who are stage green introspective (focused inward) the introspective ones sounds way more mature and developed to me, but i am not sure if it is only because of spiral development or that it has to do with their genetics and personality, environment, age, sexe or whatever.... or maybe it's both.

Well it does of course have to do with age and genetics.

Some people, by their genetics, and more importantly their spirit, will ascend the hierarchy faster. The older you are, the further along you will be.

Introverts are naturally more inward focused, and extroverts are naturally more outward focused. This is something completely separate from development.

[Artsu]

The majority of posters to this forum are at Introspective. Some are at Community, and I assume some younger members are still at Modelling however I haven't come across them.

A few are at Experimental, including Leo.

I haven't come across a single member at Holistic, let alone higher.

 

So this is NOT a forum for highly developed individuals. Above average, sure, but not genius level.

I'm only here at the moment because I don't know where else to discuss my work, but I have found backlash so far from low-minded and close-minded individuals.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Artsu

[Carl-Richard]

Why is your model the way that it is? What are the premises for structuring it this way and not another? How did you go about making it?

Edited November 20, 2022 by Carl-Richard

[Artsu]

8 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Why is your model the way that it is? What are the premises for structuring it this way and not another? How did you go about making it?

I studied my own development, and found that those are the stages I developed in.

The cognitive function parallel was too strong to be ignored, and the order the functions go in had been discovered already in other contexts.

I now have research from looking at users of a dating site that confirm my views. Going by their age and Thematic level, it shows that the order of development from, at the very least, Community to Holistic, is sound.

I'm my own main data point when it comes to post-integral. I've yet to find a single person who is beyond Mission (that's the level I'm currently at, but I can access higher levels).

[Carl-Richard]

24 minutes ago, Artsu said:

I'm my own main data point when it comes to post-integral. I've yet to find a single person who is beyond Mission (that's the level I'm currently at, but I can access higher levels).

How would you describe the mission stage?

[Artsu]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

How would you describe the mission stage?

Descriptions are still in the works.

You can read my posts to get an idea.

[Artsu]

I'll just say, that when describing higher levels of consciousness, it's very difficult to convey through ordinary language what it is that makes these states so profound.

For example, you could say, isn't the typical Se dominant type "in The Now"? And all I can say is... Well, no, not in THAT sense. I suspect that at most 1% EVER get to the point of living habitually in The Now. But I don't know how to convey that through a description.

So how does it feel to be at Mission? It feels like, well, being on a mission, in a way that less that 1% of people will ever experience.

When it comes to the descriptions, I may find it too difficult to describe anything from Mission onwards. (I THINK I can describe The Now to an extent)

[Artsu]

Just a note on the Centre of Gravity:

When a person is at a certain level, their lifestyle and the things they talk about will actually be centred on a lower level. Typically this is 2 levels below their "Frontier" (the level one identifies as, where their growth is taking place).

So, although this forum is Introspective, people tend to discuss Modelling. They also discuss Success, especially those at Community.

I'm at Mission, but the things I talk about here are Holistic, although my lifestyle/Centre is actually The Now.

 

In other words, WHAT a person talks about is their Centre, and HOW they talk about it is their Frontier.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Artsu

[Artsu]

If anyone knows anyone (ANY public figure) who is post-integral, please let me know!

[Carl-Richard]

2 minutes ago, Artsu said:

If anyone knows anyone (ANY public figure) who is post-integral, please let me know!

Nobody knows what that means.

[Danioover9000]

@Artsu

13 minutes ago, Artsu said:

If anyone knows anyone (ANY public figure) who is post-integral, please let me know!

   First off, interesting modal you have there. While I'm not post integral fully, I'm partly there and also a systems thinker, so if you're interested in how I think, feel, and frame my language around my own development at around that level, let me know here.

   Also, in your own words, could you describe to me how you see this synthesis between a human cultural value's developmental modal, and a human personality typing modal? Where, in your view, are the differences and similarities between the two modals?

[Artsu]

19 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Artsu

   First off, interesting modal you have there. While I'm not post integral fully, I'm partly there and also a systems thinker, so if you're interested in how I think, feel, and frame my language around my own development at around that level, let me know here.

   Also, in your own words, could you describe to me how you see this synthesis between a human cultural value's developmental modal, and a human personality typing modal? Where, in your view, are the differences and similarities between the two modals?

I suspect you're actually Introspective. No where near post-integral.

 

As for the parallels: like I said, it's not about which personality type is at which level, it's about which cognitive function corresponds to that level in overall theme.

For example, doesn't Orange sound a lot like Te? That's the best example, but it applies to every level.

The problem is that Red doesn't sound like Se, but I put that down to a flaw in the SD model.

Once you see how the functions map out to the SD levels, it's easy to see that Orange and Green need to be split in two.

Once you get above Turquoise, there's a return to the Se theme, with living in The Now.

Isn't the goal of meditation sometimes said to be awareness of the present moment? It turns out that true awareness of the present really is a very high level state.

From that point on, the cycle restarts in terms of functions.

I can see in my own development how my model is true, and I can access higher levels to see what is coming.

 

 

If you're only at upper Green, which I suspect you are, it's doubtful that you have much awareness of The Now, let alone higher.

[Artsu]

20 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Nobody knows what that means.

You're right.

As the only current post-integral poster, only I know what it means.

 

Another way to phrase the question is: post the highest level thinker you know of.

Chances are they'll only be Holistic.

 

I know a few figures who are beyond Holistic.

Like I said though, I've yet to find a single individual who is beyond Mission.

Ultimately, I'm interested in The Now as well. Holistic, not so much. That's quite easy to find.

[Carl-Richard]

18 hours ago, Artsu said:

As the only current post-integral poster, only I know what it means.

What a coincidence...

[thisintegrated]

lmao

Who does this guy remind me of??

[Artsu]

59 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

What a coincidence...

One day you'll learn.

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Artsu said:

One day you'll learn.

Thank you, master.