A bit of junk is good for you change my mind

[Jannes]

Your body needs vitamins and minerals, proteins, fats, fiber and carbs. So when you supplement, eat pretty good with plenty of vegetable and fruits and you get all your nutrition you are healthy (from a diet standpoint) But you don’t need to go 100% to check the boxes. When you have a bit of junk here and there but eat mostly clean you still get enough nutrients. Junk food doesn’t help you be healthier because it’s mostly empty calories but it also doesn’t hurt you (or at least very little) What does hurt you is when you stress yourself out to be 100% healthy. When all your friends get ice cream and you are the only one who doesn’t eat ice cream because it has sugar in it. That’s unhealthy. You feel bad because you don’t belong to the group. You feel bad because you can’t enjoy what all the other people enjoy. And you are stressed because you have to figure out a plan to get healthy food for yourself. Stress is unhealthy and all that stress combined is more unhealthy then the ice cream itself. Trying to be 100% ”clean“ is stage green being super emotional and a bit delusional. The stage yellow diet is 80% clean/20% junk! ?

[thenondualtankie]

I agree with this

[cjoseph90]

good post, i agree. having balance and not being neurotic about being perfect

[ZenAlex]

I disagree. Junk is never good for you. I agree with not being neurotic about it, but in reality junk food should make you feel bad to the degree that you stop eating it, not out of guilty but simply because you feel better without it.

I eat some junk sometimes, but I don't really feel better physically for it, I simply feel better in the moment because I'm enjoying myself.

But there are some junk foods I'll never eat - 

Sugary drinks - Energy drinks, sugary cola etc

Sugary sweets. Haribo, candy etc.

These things make me feel so bad and sickly, it's not about guilt, it's simply about eating shit will make you feel like shit.

If you can eat junk without feeling like shit then fine, but eat more than a small amount and you'll likely feel bad.

[Michael569]

The problem with this is that you are seeing a clean diet as a choir or burden and junk food as your salvation. This type of thinking does not allow you to create health as your core value because you not being serious with it. Eventually the amount of junk food grows as you make more and more exceptions, you get lazier, your willpower drains and before you know it 40% of your diet is made of junk, sugar and crisps. 

Once you start to truly value health, you won't even crave those things. Like, it won't even cross your mind to stop in Mcdonalds unless you are starvcing and there is no food for miles around. Even then, I'd rather hold a fast then eat at Mcdonald's ..maybe with the exception of their veggie wrap. Doesn't mean you are not fun to be around but just because other people piss on their health, you don;t have to. There are always way to have healthy food even if you are out and you can still see as a treat. It's all about building that mindset. If you don't have it, making exceptions soon becomes the norm. 

if you have friends who eat shit and drink and treat their digestive system as a garbage disposal bag, find better friends. Eventually all of them will end up sick and so will you if you let them lead you. 

Unless your standards are strict and built around a strong core value, you will be compromising all the time. 

[flowboy]

12 minutes ago, Michael569 said:

Eventually all of them will end up sick and so will you if you let them lead you. 

To be fair, most chronic diseases are caused by a combination of bad physical inputs (food) and internalized toxicity from upbringing... which most people unknowingly have, so it's a safe assumption ?

[flowboy]

I agree to an extent that technically you not fitting in could be unhealthy because emotional stress is unhealthy... but actually peer pressure needs two to tango. You can be detached to a point where any peer pressure will just not be felt by you. At which point your friends can either respect you for it or stop being your friends.

It really is about having a strong frame.

If they are pressuring you, then that means they are made uncomfortable by your display of healthy choices.

You can be stress free by letting them own and handle that stress, rather than changing yourself to make them comfortable.

Actually changing yourself/compromising your boundaries in order to make others comfortable is a factor in chronic disease, according to Gabor Mate.

Weird, I know.

[Jannes]

7 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

I disagree. Junk is never good for you. I agree with not being neurotic about it, but in reality junk food should make you feel bad to the degree that you stop eating it, not out of guilty but simply because you feel better without it.

If I eat a lot of raw fruits and veggies I still feel good eating up to 40% junk I would say. But I get what you are saying and when I eat clean but not with so much fruits and veggies I definetly feel the negative health effects.

 

7 hours ago, Michael569 said:

The problem with this is that you are seeing a clean diet as a choir or burden and junk food as your salvation. This type of thinking does not allow you to create health as your core value because you not being serious with it. Eventually the amount of junk food grows as you make more and more exceptions, you get lazier, your willpower drains and before you know it 40% of your diet is made of junk, sugar and crisps. 

Once you start to truly value health, you won't even crave those things. Like, it won't even cross your mind to stop in Mcdonalds unless you are starvcing and there is no food for miles around. Even then, I'd rather hold a fast then eat at Mcdonald's ..maybe with the exception of their veggie wrap. Doesn't mean you are not fun to be around but just because other people piss on their health, you don;t have to. There are always way to have healthy food even if you are out and you can still see as a treat. It's all about building that mindset. If you don't have it, making exceptions soon becomes the norm. 
 

I was extremely health conscious at one point in my life. Actually very neurotic. And it stressed me out. I had a lot of issues I couldn’t deal with and health and fitness were the two things that kind of worked and where I got some feelings of success. So instead of then focusing on other things I tried to reach perfection in my health. Because I was so conscious of every little thing that could be unhealthy I talked myself into being super unhealthy and in big need of a detox. But it were mostly my thoughts that toxified me. I honestly think I am more healthy eaten 50% junk because then I don’t think about health and have a healthier mind which produces a healthier body. 

7 hours ago, Michael569 said:

if you have friends who eat shit and drink and treat their digestive system as a garbage disposal bag, find better friends. Eventually all of them will end up sick and so will you if you let them lead you. 

Unless your standards are strict and built around a strong core value, you will be compromising all the time. 

I don’t know if I ever met a person that was serious about health ? I motivated my whole family and most of my friends to become more health conscious but there is just so much resistance.

[Jannes]

6 hours ago, flowboy said:

I agree to an extent that technically you not fitting in could be unhealthy because emotional stress is unhealthy... but actually peer pressure needs two to tango. You can be detached to a point where any peer pressure will just not be felt by you. At which point your friends can either respect you for it or stop being your friends.

It really is about having a strong frame.

If they are pressuring you, then that means they are made uncomfortable by your display of healthy choices.

You can be stress free by letting them own and handle that stress, rather than changing yourself to make them comfortable.

Actually changing yourself/compromising your boundaries in order to make others comfortable is a factor in chronic disease, according to Gabor Mate.

Weird, I know.

When I was vegan I learned that. It was super easy to say no at some point. But still I felt left out. Everyone having a moment together enjoying their meal and looking at me with pity… And I have a lot of problems with feeling that I don’t belong. 

[flowboy]

7 hours ago, Jannes said:

When I was vegan I learned that. It was super easy to say no at some point. But still I felt left out. Everyone having a moment together enjoying their meal and looking at me with pity… And I have a lot of problems with feeling that I don’t belong. 

That problem with feeling that you don’t belong is not because of veganism. It’s because of your childhood 

[Rigel]

You could also not eat the ice cream, be happy and not stress about it?

[thenondualtankie]

@Michael569 What exactly is wrong with McDonalds, let's say a double quarter pounder? This is a genuine question. Health is one of my top values. But I personally don't see anything too bad with a McDonald's burger, especially if you get rid of the sugary ketchup and buns (I often do this just to get the cheese and beef patty in my system as a convenient meal and source of protein and fat).

 

[ZenAlex]

14 hours ago, Jannes said:

If I eat a lot of raw fruits and veggies I still feel good eating up to 40% junk I would say. But I get what you are saying and when I eat clean but not with so much fruits and veggies I definetly feel the negative health effects.

 

I was extremely health conscious at one point in my life. Actually very neurotic. And it stressed me out. I had a lot of issues I couldn’t deal with and health and fitness were the two things that kind of worked and where I got some feelings of success. So instead of then focusing on other things I tried to reach perfection in my health. Because I was so conscious of every little thing that could be unhealthy I talked myself into being super unhealthy and in big need of a detox. But it were mostly my thoughts that toxified me. I honestly think I am more healthy eaten 50% junk because then I don’t think about health and have a healthier mind which produces a healthier body. 

I don’t know if I ever met a person that was serious about health ? I motivated my whole family and most of my friends to become more health conscious but there is just so much resistance.

Well I hope the risk is worth it, because if you're eating all that unhealthy food it may end up destroying you eventually.

But you go ahead. You literally poisoning yourself. 

You made an argument that a bit of junk food is good for you. By junk I assume you mean food with little/zero nutritional value and unhealthy elements to it.

Don't play russian roulette with your health.

[Michael569]

26 minutes ago, thenondualtankie said:

ichael569 What exactly is wrong with McDonalds, let's say a double quarter pounder? This is a genuine question. Health is one of my top values. But I personally don't see anything too bad with a McDonald's burger, especially if you get rid of the sugary ketchup and buns (I often do this just to get the cheese and beef patty in my system as a convenient meal and source of protein and fat).

It's several layers of arguments as to why not eat at Mcdonald's but if I was to summarise it to a single point it would be "processed beef" 

[undeather]

27 minutes ago, thenondualtankie said:

@Michael569 What exactly is wrong with McDonalds, let's say a double quarter pounder? This is a genuine question. Health is one of my top values. But I personally don't see anything too bad with a McDonald's burger, especially if you get rid of the sugary ketchup and buns (I often do this just to get the cheese and beef patty in my system as a convenient meal and source of protein and fat).

 

This question of right or wrong doesn't really make sense in this case.
I mean - wrong for what? for whom? for which purpuse? in what quantity? in what sense?....
If we cant contextualize our qustion about food, then any answer will be inherently unsatisfactory.

 

[Jannes]

8 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

Well I hope the risk is worth it, because if you're eating all that unhealthy food it may end up destroying you eventually.

But you go ahead. You literally poisoning yourself. 

You made an argument that a bit of junk food is good for you. By junk I assume you mean food with little/zero nutritional value and unhealthy elements to it.

Don't play russian roulette with your health.

I definetly want to eat more clean again. But what do you mean exactly with poisonous food? I mean every natural food has some poison in it so you don’t overeat it. And our body is adapted to deal with that with our detox organs. And on the "unnatural“ side: There are studies of people drinking a shitton of artificially sweetened soda every day and there were pretty much no negative health outcomes. I wouldn’t drink or eat that much junk myself but it just shows that your body can deal with a lot.

But a lot of junk actually isn’t full of “toxins“. Sugar for example. I would bet wheat flower also. Okay trans fats are definetly bad for you. But most junk with little to no trans fats is just empty calories and again if you supplement and eat a lot of nutritious food as a base I don’t think you damage yourself that much. 
 

I don’t want to say you should eat more junk. Less is definetly better. But you also won’t kill yourself with a bit. I just want a more holistic approach to health. Loneliness is super unhealthy, No passion is super unhealthy, lack of physical activity is super unhealthy, Stress, Sleep, Beliefs, … 

So when you say that it’s important to go from 80% clean to 98% clean you would pretty much need to be really good in all the other aspects otherwise your priorities aren’t well sorted. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Jannes

[flowboy]

@Jannes  Ever heard of insulin resistance?

I recommend listening to some up-to-date health-related podcasts like Dru Purohit and Dr Rangan Chatterjee, also Aubrey Marcus Podcast.

It's kind of hard to have this discussion if you are just not up to date on these things.

[Jannes]

@flowboy I am not an health expert so I can’t debate you when it comes to details. This channel and my body are mostly my authority sources when it comes to health. 

 

[flowboy]

8 minutes ago, Jannes said:

I am not an health expert so I can’t debate you when it comes to details.

Funny because you started this topic making all kinds of claims, like sugar isn't bad and junk food won't harm you

Insulin resistance is not a "detail". It's a major factor for most chronic disease, and a major gaping hole in your knowledge.

I'm not a health expert either. That's @Michael569

I do however open myself to a lot of information from different sources, and don't make excuses for not knowing.

You might consider doing the same.

[Jannes]

36 minutes ago, flowboy said:

Funny because you started this topic making all kinds of claims, like sugar isn't bad and junk food won't harm you

I wanted to test if my standpoint is valid. „… change my mind“

Quote

Insulin resistance is not a "detail". It's a major factor for most chronic disease, and a major gaping hole in your knowledge.

Is there a good summary?

Quote

I'm not a health expert either. That's @Michael569

I do however open myself to a lot of information from different sources, and don't make excuses for not knowing.

You might consider doing the same.

I mean it pretty much just boils down to having a healthy weight, exercise and a mostly unprocessed diet with a lot of variation. Right? 
So idk why you should put that much time into it. Your time is limited after all. And all the other aspects like „Social life, passion, sleep, stress, beliefs, trauma, … need time and attention too and contribute to a healthy body.