Will most American voters be aware of who ended nationwide abortion rights?

[Hardkill]

I just thought of something.

If most voters are generally ignorant and dumb then will enough of the general US population realize or understand who were truly responsible for ending nationwide abortion rights? Do or will most adults even know about roe vs. wade having been overturned by the conservative majority in SCOTUS?

What if the right-wing media like Fox News is able to spin it in a way that actually persuades at least half of the entire population that it wasn't the right-wing who were at fault? Or as crazy or stupid as this may sound, what if they scapegoat Biden and the Dems in Congress for ending the right to have an abortion in most states because "it happened under their watch"?

Edited July 5, 2022 by Hardkill

[Yarco]

Conservatives aren't ashamed of it. They want to be associated with it and claim the victory. It's finally a win for them and their voter base from a generally ineffective and toothless party, it's a big morale boost. So there is no reason for them to disavow or try to spin it. 

The dumb majority opinion is "Trump elected a conservative judge, which is the reason Roe v Wade got overturned, so it's ultimately Trump's fault." That opinion is already cemented in public consciousness and it's too late to change it.

You guys really can't conceive that removing abortion rights isn't some political suicide hot potato that conservatives would want to offload haha.

Don't worry, Biden and the Dems have enough problems to handsomely lose the midterms without also blaming loss of abortion rights on them.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Yarco

[Devin]

They are already (I don't think spinning is the right word) outright lying and saying it's the liberals fault this happened and that the court has now given the people a vote/voice in the matter. They're using " the liberals are the ones that brought this new case to the court to be heard"

Edited July 4, 2022 by Devin

[puporing]

Truth prevails no matter how "buried" they might be in this moment.

[DocWatts]

Anyone who was already on board the MAGA train is foaming at the mouth at the prospect of getting their chance to further persecute what they consider to be their social inferiors.

The question is whether enough otherwise disengaged and apathetic people will bother to put in the effort to resist the country's slide towards fascism by voting in the 2022 election.

It's really on the Democratic Party and on social activists to keep people engaged until the November election.

If you're in the States, you should be being very vocal about what's happening right now so that half a century's worth of Civil Rights being overturned doesn't have the opportunity to become a half remembered news item a few months from now. 

Don't let the country's slide towards fascism and theocracy become normalized. Call out what's happening right now loudly and repeatedly, and do what you can to encourage political engagement.

Edited July 4, 2022 by DocWatts

[Devin]

3 hours ago, DocWatts said:

Anyone who was already on board the MAGA train is foaming at the mouth at the prospect of getting their chance to further persecute what they consider to be their social inferiors.

The question is whether enough otherwise disengaged and apathetic people will bother to put in the effort to resist the country's slide towards fascism by voting in the 2022 election.

It's really on the Democratic Party and on social activists to keep people engaged until the November election.

If you're in the States, you should be being very vocal about what's happening right now so that half a century's worth of Civil Rights being overturned doesn't have the opportunity to become a half remembered news item a few months from now. 

Don't let the country's slide towards fascism and theocracy become normalized. Call out what's happening right now loudly and repeatedly, and do what you can to encourage political engagement.

What do you see that looks like fascism that hasn't been a part of the states since their beginning?

 

We've had civil rights laws, but anyone not a white male has been marginalized and oppressed constantly since the start, not by law, but by culture.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Devin

[Devin]

3 hours ago, puporing said:

Truth prevails no matter how "buried" they might be in this moment.

It prevails eventually, not constantly

[puporing]

@Devin that's what I meant. Sometimes many lifetimes later for example.

[Devin]

The ones I speak with actually arent celebrating it, not surprising the hooked on fear negative nincompoops are scared that this happened, they're focusing on this potentially hurting republicans in the midterms.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Devin

[DocWatts]

50 minutes ago, Devin said:

What do you see that looks like fascism that hasn't been a part of the states since their beginning?

Well first off let's understand what fascism actually entails, so that the term is being used in a precise way rather than as a pejorative.

Of course this isn't the only valid definition of fascism, just the one I'm choosing to use.

Fascism is a symptom of failing democracy. It's a mass based political movement obsessed with victimization and decline in which nationalist militants coordinate with traditional forms of authority to dismantle the existing democracy, and to return to the former glory of a romanticized past. In multicultural societies like the United States, this romanticized past is always one where one's own ethno-cultutal group sat at the top of an entrenched dominator hierarchy. 

While a white supremacist aparthied state may have been consistent with societal sensibilities of the 1700 and 1800s, the rise of mass based political movements with a desire to return to that previous state of affairs well after marginalized groups have gained some semblance of equality is indicative of fascism.

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by DocWatts

[Devin]

4 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

Well first off let's understand what fascism actually entails, so that the term is being used in a precise way rather than as a pejorative.

Fascism is a symptom of failing democracy. It's a mass based political movement obsessed with victimization and decline in which nationalist militants coordinate with traditional forms of authority to dismantle the existing democracy, and to return to the former glory of a romanticized past where one's own ethno-cultutal group sat at the top of an entrenched dominator hierarchy. 

While a white supremacist aparthied state may have been consistent with societal sensibilities of the 1700 and 1800s, the rise of mass based political movements with a desire to return to that previous state of affairs well after marginalized groups have gained some semblance of equality is indicative of fascism.

 

 

To me the end of the white male reign has never come, even with a black president. The culture below the surface doesn't appear to have changed to me.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Devin

[DocWatts]

7 minutes ago, Devin said:

Are you saying they want slavery?

To me the end of the white male reign has never come, even with a black president. The culture below the surface doesn't appear to have changed to me.

No. What they want is a return to the white, male, and Christian dominated apartheid state that existed from the end of the Civil War up until the Civil Rights movement.

What they basically want is for the ethno-state that existed during Jim Crowe to be restored, for LGBT people to be suppressed, and for (thier twisted version of) Christianity to become the State religion.

Edited July 4, 2022 by DocWatts

[Devin]

14 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

No. What they want is a return to the white, male, and Christian dominated apartheid state that existed from the end of the Civil War up until the Civil Rights movement.

What they basically want is for the ethno-state that existed during Jim Crowe to be restored, for LGBT people to be suppressed, and for (thier twisted version of) Christianity to become the State religion.

I don't see any worrisome effort on a national level though just states and in those states LGBT are already suppressed by the culture, and their twisted view of Christianity is the states religion

Edited July 4, 2022 by Devin

[Devin]

Here's what makes me not afraid of them

Let them fester in their states, and let the liberal states shine, letting them see the day and night difference will affect actual change, not forcing them to come down the road of progress against their will.

[Leo Gura]

I wouldn't worry about this one. It's obvious this policy was pushed by the right, and the right is happy to own it.

[Devin]

They're happy to own that it was given to the states to decide, many are downplaying the attack on abortion rights nationally though.

 

"SCOTUS did not throw out precedent. If precedent over rides everything, then Dredd Scott would be overturned and we’d go back to legalizing slavery. In fact they went out of their way in every single case leading up to Dodd to preserve Roe.

Read if for yourself. Allito states plainly some people are pro-life to an extreme, even tubal pregnancies are Gods will in their view (not a majority opinion anywhere). The anti-lifers would have children be killed up to say age 18. The majority fall somewhere in between. SCOTUS simply acknowledged that abortion has nothing to do with privacy and TX and MS forced that issue into the forefront. So SCOTUS recognized that if Roe stands then it’s a logic fallacy and the abortion right disappears entirely. So if Roe falls, abortion is a 9th and 10th amendment right…the States decide. That was the correct decision. So in a lot of ways what they did is SAVE abortion rights because now states can rule based on the merits and not some crazy judicial garbage that is being torn apart in the first place because Texas in particular invalidated Casey and left Roe meaningless with the heartbeat law.

Thomas (not the majority opinion) went further and stated that everything else following the 14th amendment right to privacy doctrine including a right to **** and contraceptives becomes open to challenge.

What is utterly moronic here is that in virtually every single decision in the last 50 years when it comes tk the 4th amendment right against searches and seizures the courts have let government and corporations walk all over everyone. The contrived right to privacy was only used to justify abortion, contraceptives, and ****. Illegal searches are fine as long as the evidence isn’t used in court. The IRS, FBI, and NSA can do anything without court orders. And email and internet privacy is a total farce. All legal and your right to privacy be damned. But abortion and **** and condoms are a critical right to privacy. So it’s more like SCOTUS coming to their senses. For way too long they have been the lap dogs of the bureaucrats."

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Devin
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[BlueOak]

You should be more concerned about the continued mobilization of Religion as a Political Tool. If that continues it will keep increasing in political significance. For anyone who says it already is, yes and it's getting more so in America.

Using an assigned set of fixed, almost immovable morale values imposed over the population, will eventually cause greater and greater sources of civil disturbance from those who don't share these values. If the percentage of the country is large enough to reject them.

The aim is to split the country on issues that don't affect those in power or cost them money. They have realized on many issues religion doesn't, so its safe to use as a dividing factor for the population's two-party system to argue about. It stops you all from focusing on things that might affect their power (money). Same with personality politics, scandals etc.

Edited July 5, 2022 by BlueOak

[Hardkill]

On 7/4/2022 at 5:17 AM, Yarco said:

Conservatives aren't ashamed of it. They want to be associated with it and claim the victory. It's finally a win for them and their voter base from a generally ineffective and toothless party, it's a big morale boost. So there is no reason for them to disavow or try to spin it. 

The dumb majority opinion is "Trump elected a conservative judge, which is the reason Roe v Wade got overturned, so it's ultimately Trump's fault." That opinion is already cemented in public consciousness and it's too late to change it.

You guys really can't conceive that removing abortion rights isn't some political suicide hot potato that conservatives would want to offload haha.

Don't worry, Biden and the Dems have enough problems to handsomely lose the midterms without also blaming loss of abortion rights on them.

 

On 7/4/2022 at 7:13 PM, Leo Gura said:

I wouldn't worry about this one. It's obvious this policy was pushed by the right, and the right is happy to own it.

Okay, that’s what I thought. Just wanted to make sure.

Now, what about what the progressives have saying about this issue? TYT and other progressives out there have been hurting have been screaming at the establishment Dems in Washington for “doing nothing” about this issue, even though we know that in reality that is there absolutely nothing they can do to get the votes they need to codify nationwide abortion rights into law. Cenk and Ana even yelled on their channel to not support any of these. “loser Dems” in Washington anymore.

Aren’t the progressives hurting the Democratic Party politically with their stupid blaming their own party for failing to protect abortion rights?