Is weed healthy?

[Carl-Richard]

@Cthulu It's not just about IQ or even structural changes in the brain. The cognitive-emotional and behavioral aspects are the most important. It's not just weed: any and all habituation to a hyper-normal reward stimulus that requires sub-normal to no work, is inherently anti-hormetic (it lowers resilience and systemic integrity).

In other words, regularly pumping your brain full of reward chemicals without coupling it to any meaningful action, teaches you that meaningful actions are in fact not meaningful. It hijacks the most fundamental psycho-physiological mechanisms that sustains you as an organism.

To think that this does not have severe side effects for your mind or body is absurd. The only reason it has become so accepted in society is because it has become OK to amputate your potential and do just enough to get by. In fact, dissociating yourself from meaning at this level has become a way to cope with the meaning crisis in our current society.

We have to re-discover the inner divine strength of spirituality and the sacred collective practices of religion, so that we can have a truly sustainable opiate of both the individual and the masses.

[Cthulu]

@Carl-Richard I agree. 

Weed can be useful but also a crutch. Those studies talk about how it rewires the reward structure and actually does make weed a low key gateway drug because people are more likely to engage in the same behavior with other substances. And it does extend to behavior outside of substance as well. 

I recommend cosmic energy as a substitute. Very sustainable once fully immersed. 

Sometimes weed can give people just the right push they need so I still won't completely warn people away from it. Just to be responsible in its usage rather. And to know yourself if you already have an addictive personality. 

[Leo Gura]

It was a newer study and it included not just young people.

Look, when it comes to studies things will rarely be absolute. There's always multiple studies and none of these studies are comprehensive. For example, weed may lower your IQ but offer some other benefits (such a preventing cancer) which results in a net positive. All such studies are extremely limited. No study is giving you anywhere near the full picture.

[LSD-Rumi]

@Leo Gura We need your weed trip report Leo! 

[Grateful Dead]

Weed can be very useful, but it can also get you stuck if you don't outgrow it. If you are doing it every 1-2 weeks in a spiritual context with serious intent, I think this is the way to go. But it's not easy, at least for me, to regulate it that way.

[undeather]

Here is a meta analysis ragarding weed & IQ

Effects are highly significant but only translate to an average decline of  2 IQ points following exposure to cannabis in youth. Also, bear in mind that we are talking about epidemiological research, so this does not prove anything beyond association. What it really takes to prove this hypothesis is a high quality randomized, placebo-controlled trial with a decent follow up period. However, i dont see this passing any ethical review committee 

Actually, the more I think about it, the more doubts come up...I can think of multiple cofactors that would intervene with said study protocol. For example, smoking a joint will greatly impact your REM-sleep quantity/quality in subsequent sleep cycles. This will also have an apparent effect on your IQ-measurement and I dont see this point adequately controlled for in the statistical analysis. This is just ONE argument and it already makes the findings very shaky....i

There are many good reasons to not smoke weed regularly, especially as an adolescent.
I doubt we will see the same findings about IQ in a high quality trial - but you never know. 
Keep it as low THC%  and infrequent as possible- that would be my advice.

[Jannes]

I know a lot of anecdotes of people who lost their discipline and drive in live from smoking weed everyday. All of them are super nice and harmless people with compassion but also with no work ethic. It’s probably different for everybody but for me I just can’t think straight when I am high and even the next day.
It’s also a crutch for me because it’s just something to do. I haven’t developed my passion for life yet and I limit every other source that could possibly lead to an addiction (social media, video games, junk food, …) so when I don’t have anything to do weed becomes very appealing. It’s not as heavy as other psychedelics but it still puts you in a nice place. But I see how this could turn into an addiction for me so I will stop.

3 hours ago, undeather said:

There are many good reasons to not smoke weed regularly, especially as an adolescent.
I doubt we will see the same findings about IQ in a high quality trial - but you never know. 
Keep it as low THC%  and infrequent as possible- that would be my advice.

My first thought was also that THC is what makes weed unhealthy. But it’s the CBD that makes you relaxed -> unproductive?

Are there studies that look at what happens to regular CBD user ?

[Carl-Richard]

57 minutes ago, Jannes said:

My first thought was also that THC is what makes weed unhealthy. But it’s the CBD that makes you relaxed -> unproductive?

It's the highly stimulating effects that weakens your motivational systems if you do them frequently over longer periods. CBD doesn't have those type of strong effects, unlike THC. It's not as much about the immediate effects experienced during the high, but rather the long-term effects from the system adapting to the high stimulation.

You're telling it that it doesn't have to work to feel good, which makes it less resilient over time (because you're less inclined to do work), and also, on the level of receptors, it adapts to the stimulation so that discontinuing use leads to a sub-normal endogenous activity (dependence and withdrawal), which also makes it less resilient. So you become weaker and more dependent, and the weaker you become, the more dependent you become etc.

[Asayake]

31 minutes ago, Jannes said:

I know a lot of anecdotes of people who lost their discipline and drive in live from smoking weed everyday. All of them are super nice and harmless people with compassion but also with no work ethic. It’s probably different for everybody but for me I just can’t think straight when I am high and even the next day.
It’s also a crutch for me because it’s just something to do. I haven’t developed my passion for life yet and I limit every other source that could possibly lead to an addiction (social media, video games, junk food, …) so when I don’t have anything to do weed becomes very appealing. It’s not as heavy as other psychedelics but it still puts you in a nice place. But I see how this could turn into an addiction for me so I will stop.

Sounds like you reached a sound conclusion. Look, I have a lot of positive anecdotal things to say about weed. I could write 10 pages here going in depth about how it can help with creative pursuits, spiritual pursuits. How it can offer a sort of self therapy if you know how to work with it where you can face darker parts of yourself and let go of a lot of fear and increase self acceptance. I could write many things in depth on this, it has helped many people, many very successful great musicians and artists were fond of weed and knew what it's really about. But you can't really know that without going deep into it, just like one LSD trip isn't enough to really understand LSD. And going that deep with it will very likely compromise your productivity significantly temporarily. And you might have to rebuild healthy habits that fell apart if it gets to that point, which isn't unlikely unless you have the discipline of a Shaolin monk. But I don't want to go too in depth about the positives I have experienced and my thoughts on why weed is an overlooked psychedelic.I  feel like it would risk impacting others to go use a bunch of weed because they see others speaking fondly of it.

With that being said weed is not necessarily a lighter psychedelic than e.g. LSD. It just seems that way if you use it once. But to really understand weed imo you need to do it regularly. And then it will take you both to very euphoric meaningful places and more dark, challenging places. Just like a harder psychedelic can do but just not quite as intense but stretched over a longer period of time instead, so it can still be challenging. I think many people quit once weed starts turning into a problem for them not really realising the weed is literally showing them problems/darkness that was already there before weed and were just surpressed before the weed use. That can look like a new problem caused by the weed at a first glance, but similar to other psychedelics it's moreso an amplification of something already within you. The fact that it can be challenging to quit can be seen as an obstacle which forces you to grow as a person. 

But it's not really my intent to influence others to do a bunch of weed. I already had a passion for life and had been working on my passion since I was young when I got into weed. So a temporary setback in productivity was not detrimental for me or my career where as it could be for others that don't already have a functional life set up.

I would say, find your passion, work on it diligently, try to find a way to make a living of it first. Then revisit weed if you feel inclined to do so in the future. I believe following your deeper self is the right thing to do. If you feel weed is something you want to explore at some point I would encourage that, despite what others are saying. But chose the timing wisely, get your life in order first or weed might actually be very unhealthy.

[Jannes]

@Asayake thanks for the post I really enjoyed reading it.
It sounds like you had some really authentic positive experience with weed and it also a sounds like you don’t defend weed because of your personal bias but because you really believe in its potential. 
Concentration and work ethic are just very fragile recourses in my character and weed kills both of them. So the dangers definetly outweigh the cons for me. I will work on other psychedelics first. 
But as you suggested when I am at a point in my life where I found my passion, have a strong drive in life and secured my survival I might take it again.

[Arcangelo]

Yes and no. It depends.

[integral]

Weed causes immediate changes to the brain, when the effects wear off the brain is left in a chronic stressed state do to does changes. To stop the stress requires more weed and so a dependency is created. This can happened from a single use. This stress can look like increased cognitive load, in other words the brain needs more energy and work to do the same task as a non-smoker, the brain becomes inefficient or the reward system is not responding in the same way so every task is less stimulating and harder to do. Luckily its reversible with abstinence for a few months as the brain re-wires itself to a optimized state. 

Everyone reacts differently but minors are especially in danger. Also there are studies that point to marijuana causing mini-mini strokes.

Overall its linked to increased stress, anxiety and poorer decision making skills.

Anecdotally ive never had a panic attack, not sober or on any substance besides marijuana. It doesn't work at all for my body. Everyone's body is different, its a hit or miss with this substance. From what ive seen in many close friends and relatives who smoke is they are from what i can tell in a chronic partially disoriented state, all the time except when high. They cant simple sit some where and do nothing, they got to GOGOGO or be somewhere else, do something else, multi-task something, the reward system is shot. And some have stopped and it seems the habits formed don't simply go away. Bad habits can be locked in for the long term. 

Traditional psychedelics even taken recreationally are leagues ahead of weed. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by integral

[Roy]

On 7/4/2022 at 1:50 PM, Carl-Richard said:

Using weed regularly

[Thought Art]

I think I abused pot in the past. The worst thing you can do it use it chronically, and smoke or vape it which damages your lungs. My parents make weed brownies and... I only need a 10th of one to feel a desired effect. Eating a whole one just makes you mentally retarded honestly.

Though, I am sure weed was useful at times in my past. I think it also made me paranoid and yet addicted to it. Who is to say. 

I am very joyful that I don't smoke hardly these days. It tooks YEARS to quit it. It's fucking addictive. 

Especially if you are hurting emotionally like I was. 

I used to be such a hippy, reading spiritual books, journaling, writing song after fucking song. I'd smoke a lot and walk around listening to my songs a lot. I wrote hundreds of songs...

I will return to song writing soon. 

The secretary at my old job smoked a lot... She seemed a little goofy honestly.

I think weed has put me behind a few years on some things. But, then again I don't know. It's all so complicated. It also helped me through a lot as well. Hard to say. 

 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Thought Art

[Arcangelo]

On 7/9/2022 at 3:30 PM, integral said:

This can happened from a single use.

Man I remember when I first smoked pot. I told myself: -"I am gonna smoke this stuff forever."

On 7/9/2022 at 3:30 PM, integral said:

in other words the brain needs more energy and work to do the same task as a non-smoker, the brain becomes inefficient or the reward system is not responding in the same way so every task is less stimulating and harder to do.

I agree.

 

On 7/9/2022 at 3:30 PM, integral said:

Overall its linked to increased stress, anxiety and poorer decision making skills.

Kinda agree.

 

On 7/9/2022 at 3:30 PM, integral said:

From what ive seen in many close friends and relatives who smoke is they are from what i can tell in a chronic partially disoriented state, all the time except when high. They cant simple sit some where and do nothing, they got to GOGOGO or be somewhere else, do something else, multi-task something, the reward system is shot.

I agree.

[Michael569]

Anything can become problematic if it is used for the wrong reasons. 

If you use weed because you cannot otherwise calm down or sleep or it is the only way that prevents you from getting panic attacks, then you are using it as a form of green pharmacy 

If you use weed to enhance the depth of your consciousness work, like once a week, and can totally go without it (answer honestly tho, can you??) - then this is where weed can be immensely helpful. 

You might have noticed how CBD is now being sold as basically a green antidepressant. Is that how these things are supposed to be used? I've heard anecdotal stories of new allergic reactions being triggered by overuse of CBD, one again people use staff to mask problems. Same issue, but more fancy drug. 

Anything used as an external coping mechanism becomes a crutch regardless of what fancy stories we tell ourselves about it. If you can't do without it, you've become an addict and the thing you are addicted to will be detrimental for you. 

[Razard86]

On 7/4/2022 at 5:19 PM, Carl-Richard said:

@Cthulu It's not just about IQ or even structural changes in the brain. The cognitive-emotional and behavioral aspects are the most important. It's not just weed: any and all habituation to a hyper-normal reward stimulus that requires sub-normal to no work, is inherently anti-hormetic (it lowers resilience and systemic integrity).

In other words, regularly pumping your brain full of reward chemicals without coupling it to any meaningful action, teaches you that meaningful actions are in fact not meaningful. It hijacks the most fundamental psycho-physiological mechanisms that sustains you as an organism.

To think that this does not have severe side effects for your mind or body is absurd. The only reason it has become so accepted in society is because it has become OK to amputate your potential and do just enough to get by. In fact, dissociating yourself from meaning at this level has become a way to cope with the meaning crisis in our current society.

We have to re-discover the inner divine strength of spirituality and the sacred collective practices of religion, so that we can have a truly sustainable opiate of both the individual and the masses.

1. There is no meaning.

2. Buddha would have the same effect, so would joining monks in a temple. 

3. There is nothing wrong with doing just enough to get by...in the end it is all meaningless. A human is born empty handed and dies empty handed. All meaning to life is created by every individual who lives. That's the beauty of it. So a weed smoker who smokes their life away isn't more meaningful than a world renowned jazz player.

Here is an example. When the NBA first started the players had to work one or two more jobs. Now the moment you are drafted within 2 years you are a Millionaire. It would take a surgeon in the ER several years before they could become a Millionaire and they would have to be very smart with their money to obtain the same result.

Value/Meaning are just subjective interpretations that reflect what is important to the individual.

Now with all that said....you won't see me smoking my life away on weed, I stayed away from drugs for a reason. But I understand that the beauty in life is the diversity, we are lucky we can have so much diversity of perspective. 

[Jannes]

5 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

1. There is no meaning.

2. Buddha would have the same effect, so would joining monks in a temple. 

3. There is nothing wrong with doing just enough to get by...in the end it is all meaningless. A human is born empty handed and dies empty handed. All meaning to life is created by every individual who lives. That's the beauty of it. So a weed smoker who smokes their life away isn't more meaningful than a world renowned jazz player.

Here is an example. When the NBA first started the players had to work one or two more jobs. Now the moment you are drafted within 2 years you are a Millionaire. It would take a surgeon in the ER several years before they could become a Millionaire and they would have to be very smart with their money to obtain the same result.

Value/Meaning are just subjective interpretations that reflect what is important to the individual.

Now with all that said....you won't see me smoking my life away on weed, I stayed away from drugs for a reason. But I understand that the beauty in life is the diversity, we are lucky we can have so much diversity of perspective. 

In my reflections nobody is really after meaning. We only want the feeling of meaning. We ask ourself the question of what the meaning of life is when our life’s don’t feel meaningful anymore. They never had a deeper meaning to begin with but they felt meaningful. When somebody connects back to his self made life purpose for example, so something good he can do for the world then his life feels meaningful again. If it really had a deeper meaning it would even suck because it would make everything so serious. But so when weed distracts you from your life purpose then everything can definetly feel less meaningful which can feel very bad although of course there never was a change in meaning but that doesn’t matter. 

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Razard86 said:

There is no meaning.

Meditation is meaning, joining a monk temple is meaning, doing just enough to get by is meaning, avoiding drugs is meaning, even doing drugs is meaning. The question is just this: are you maximizing meaning or are you half-assing it?

The experience of something being meaningful is not completely random. It's generally tied to something, and it's generally the things that sustain you as an organism; survival. Maximizing meaning is about maximizing that impulse across all domains.

You wouldn't do spirituality or self-help if it didn't fundamentally sustain you as an organism. The end goal might be to transcend survival, but that is the opposite of failing survival. You're on the path of sustainable growth, and that has a certain structure to it.