Is it possible for a Yellow person to be a conservative?

[How to be wise]

I’ve seen several self-help and personal development authors and teachers who give off all the signs of being an integral, systems thinking person. They tick all the boxes of being at stage Yellow, except that they are trump supporters. It’s really hard to understand why someone so advanced in personal development can be so passionate about conservative political values. 

[P Michael]

58 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

I’ve seen several 

Lmao

Name one

[How to be wise]

@P Michael I don’t want to call them out, but I’ve seen 8 of them. All famous authors. I’m sure there are more that I’m unaware of.

[actuallyenlightened]

I think it depends on the society and circumstance. National conservatism for example is interested in preserving national and cultural identity. When too many opposing identities exist within a single country, this oftentimes leads to political instability and at times collapse. That's because each group acts in it's own interest, for example the Tigray war in Ethiopia. Arguably, the US is multiethnic but not multicultural, where people identify as 'American,' which is a stabilizing factor. 

So a yellow thinker can recognize the benefit of maintaining homogeneity within a society and thus be conservative in that regard. They wouldn't be as interested in any specific traditional value though. 

 

[How to be wise]

22 minutes ago, actuallyenlightened said:

I think it depends on the society and circumstance. National conservatism for example is interested in preserving national and cultural identity. When too many opposing identities exist within a single country, this oftentimes leads to political instability and at times collapse. That's because each group acts in it's own interest, for example the Tigray war in Ethiopia. Arguably, the US is multiethnic but not multicultural, where people identify as 'American,' which is a stabilizing factor. 

So a yellow thinker can recognize the benefit of maintaining homogeneity within a society and thus be conservative in that regard. They wouldn't be as interested in any specific traditional value though. 

 

Another point is that when I see these personal dev authors supporting conservatism, they are exclusively focused on the Orange parts of it, like freedom of speech, guns, no lockdowns, so forth. It’s also a reaction to stage Green. I haven’t seen any of them supporting Blue values.

[Yarco]

To go from Orange to Green, you need to become more kind (to a fault), more interested in equality for people, reduce greed, care for the environment, more feelings and caring, that sort of thing.

So you'd think that to go from Green to Yellow you just need to do more of the same.... become even more caring, even more kind, even more interested in equality. But that isn't really the case.

Yellow people aren't like super-hippies. Elevating from being a green progressive doesn't mean becoming ultra-progressive. If anything, the first thing that comes to my mind when I think about yellow people is that they're a bit shrewd and calculating.

A yellow person can embrace the good aspects of both orange and green, and reject the toxic aspects. Whereas to green, it seems like orange people are irredeemable and completely corrupt. A yellow person sees the good that orange offers to the world, as well as areas where green overstretches or shoots itself in the foot. So a yellow person can piss off both orange and green people depending on the topic.

Yellow people are highly flexible and their priority is functionality. So if using stage orange principles is the most functional way to accomplish something, that's what they'll go with. They look at the big picture and don't panic about the comparatively trivial stuff that green/orange people tend to get hung up on.

Can someone stuck completely in conservative politics be stage yellow? In almost all cases no. Does a stage yellow person see some value in and good conservatism? Yes, it's almost a requirement. Would a sociopathic stage yellow person masquerade as a conservative in service of their agenda? Sure.

Just my 2c, I could be wrong.

[aurum]

2 hours ago, How to be wise said:

@P Michael I don’t want to call them out, but I’ve seen 8 of them. All famous authors. I’m sure there are more that I’m unaware of.

Why not call them out? It’s kind of important, I’d be curious to know.

If they’re really Yellow, probably what you’re noticing is their multi-perspectival and spiral wizardry at play. An integrated person at Yellow would recognize what value conservatism has to offer, while avoiding more toxic elements since they’ve also been through Green.

In other words, Yellow’s perspective is much more nuanced and flexible than Green. They can see the value in moving through stages of development, rather than demanding others be at their stage.

Still though they are not perfect. It’s possible to have a high degree of consciousness / cognitive development but not necessarily be educated on modern politics. Politics is a domain of mastery in of itself that takes constant and deliberate effort to understand. So it’s possible someone at Yellow could make errors in their political philosophy. And of course there’s still just general human error and bias.

[actuallyenlightened]

35 minutes ago, Yarco said:

Just my 2c, I could be wrong.

Agreed! 

Another important factor to consider is that the world is mainly green and below. So, much of yellow politics would be about preventing them from doing stupid things. Yellow politics in a yellow society would be very different. 

[DieFree]

Conservative implies loyalty to tradition, inherent distrust of new ways of thinking and being, support for hierarchies based on birth, and other ideas/values not in line with Yellow.

Yellow might see the need for a conservative phase for society as a whole, or for conservatives generally, but Yellow would not be a conservative. The opposite of "not a conservative" is not a fire-breathing liberal, though. 

[Eph75]

I'd diffentiate between being conservative, and appearing conservative to someone/you based on interpretation.

Say [esp. less healthy] green could perceive yellow as "conservative" because yellow would not necessarily agree with green manifestation.

For example, yellow would be for change, but against specific change that would bring damaging imbalances from a systemic point of view. Foreseeing damaging longer term side-effects, second, third or maybe fourth order effect , where green may be acting emotionally on their humanitarian value system. A different approach would be more beneficial. 

That could be interpreted as being conservative, sustaining what is, while the systemic perspective gets lost in translation.

In a sense, either you are "with us" , "progressive", or you are "against us", "conservative". 

Yellow does not automatically mean being good as clearly communicting something or ability to angle things in a disarming way.

Yellow isn't conservative, but also yellow doesn't automatically mean being comfortable with change, or not having internal resistences.

Those are human, and yellow is still human. 

Theory (mind) and actual practice don't always align. 

Progressive can be damaging if done in a less conscious way. Pushing for change for the same of change or ideology produce systemic impacts that are difficult or impossible to reverse, and a future branches out in a direction that needs to mend the new imbalance, always causing ripple effects. 

In a way this is how development happens, it's not linear. But it can be more or less of a detour, especially when systemic cause and effects and possible correlations might be seen or predicted beforehand. 

Unrestricted progressive will run in a sprint-like fashion, while humanity is a marathon.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Eph75

[Dryas]

Yellow is supposed to be above ideology, so I’m guessing not. Although, I also feel like they could have a conservative tilt but remain aware of the limitations of their worldview.

[Recursoinominado]

3 hours ago, Dryas said:

Yellow is supposed to be above ideology

Most conservatives think they are above ideology and it is a leftist thing.

[Nilsi]

Yellow can still fuck up badly with its grand narratives even if it integrates pre - post modernity in its worldview. Just look at Peterson or Putin. These people are clearly aware of systemic dynamics and different stages of human development but they still have a massive shadow and are lost in their perverted pursuit of reforming mankind.

[BlueOak]

If you are in a Yellow state of a mind on a subject, you can operate as a conservative or a liberal and see the necessity of both depending on the situation.

*You are also not above making a fool of yourself or acting on impulse, emotion, or anything else. The other stages of your development don't disappear, just because you can do better.

Edited July 5, 2022 by BlueOak

[Danioover9000]

@How to be wise

On 7/2/2022 at 10:58 PM, How to be wise said:

I’ve seen several self-help and personal development authors and teachers who give off all the signs of being an integral, systems thinking person. They tick all the boxes of being at stage Yellow, except that they are trump supporters. It’s really hard to understand why someone so advanced in personal development can be so passionate about conservative political values. 

   It's possible, because I'm one of them

Edited July 10, 2022 by Danioover9000

[How to be wise]

On 10/07/2022 at 4:11 PM, Danioover9000 said:

@How to be wise

   It's possible, because I'm one of them

Why do you hold conservative values?

[Danioover9000]

@DefinitelyNotARobot

10 hours ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

@Danioover9000 I'm more interested in what conservative values you hold. And as how conservative would you rate yourself?

   I hold home property and ownership, responsibility, integrity, loyalty to one's nation, country and familial pity, as well as being conservative in your decision, as conservative values to me. In most cases family values would be first before business values, but sometimes business could come first. Also being independent as a value to me, bootstrap yourself for success kind of thing.

   As a rough percentage, I'm about 50 to 75% conservative, while the other 50 to 25% is liberal to progressive values. However, because of my stage of development, cognitive and moral development, personality typing, states of being, life experiences especially travelling around the world, and other lines of development it can shift here and there based on context. So really, while Boris Johnson claims he's cosmopolitan, I'm actually WAY MORE cosmopolitan than him, having been to several countries while I was growing up, and saw actually different kinds of people directly, from the rich, to middle class income earners, and to low class income earners. I've also been to a few 3rd world countries, to a village, and even saw low class earners value cleanliness and do tiddy up their houses. In fact, if you never knew their actual wealth, you'd think their middle to upper, that's how good they are when it comes to managing their home environment.

   

[Haribo]

i have a hard time buying that. Loyalty to one’s nation when most contemporary problems are international in cause and nature, just screams tier 1.

Being loyal to an outdated concept is almost the opposite of the flexible and systemic nature of tier 2 thinking.

One cannot foster the meta-stability of a complex and ever changing system while staying loyal to a small part of it.

[Danioover9000]

@Haribo

9 minutes ago, Haribo said:

i have a hard time buying that. Loyalty to one’s nation when most contemporary problems are international in cause and nature, just screams tier 1.

Being loyal to an outdated concept is almost the opposite of the flexible and systemic nature of tier 2 thinking.

One cannot foster the meta-stability of a complex and ever changing system while staying loyal to a small part of it.

   It'd possible to be conservative while being tier 2. It's just you're capped at other factors like stage of development, cognitive and moral development, personality typing, state of being, life experiences and other lines of development like close to open mindedness.

[Haribo]

i maintain what i said, you did not address my point.

SD focuses on cognitive and mainly moral development. It seems to me that If you don’t embody systems thinking, you are not tier 2, regardless of your life experiences.

Now, how can you be loyal to the meta-stability of a complex system and a nation-state at the same time?