Anyone wanna start a concerted effort to raise conciousness?

[Eph75]

57 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It doesn't work like that unfortunately.  You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

For sure telling people what to do or what to be does not work.

People want to choose, or have the illusion of choice. To feel in control of their lives. Where choice lacks, resistence is high. 

You cannot make the horses drink the water, you might not even be able to lead them there, but you can make the water appear more appealing, so that one or a few horses start craving a drink.

Influence can happen, but only if the receiver is susceptible.

Where dogma rules, wasted effort will happen.

These kind of efforts are two folded, they are equally much about oneself becoming more capable to catalyze change, to change oneself in that process, and to help others have a positive impact on their own lives. 

What that change would be is not ours to choose, it's theirs. 

In a sense, these efforts have undefined outcomes, other than creating spaces where shared sense making happens, where new perspectives can show up, and shifts can happen. They are about catlyzing potential shifts by helping raising awareness of oneself, not telling or showing anyone what's right or wrong. 

The largest challenge is it being some form of social media platform or group, with internet culture, where people are not usually their authentic selves but rather a imagined, distorted digital self-image.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Eph75

[Devin]

59 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It doesn't work like that unfortunately.  You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

I don't want to make them drink, I don't even want to lead them to water. I just want a group of horses that like to drink to go be a part of a group that doesn't, some of the non-drinkers will at least question drinking, and some will drink.

[Devin]

9 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

 

Where dogma rules, wasted effort will happen.

 

Those groups have been the most fun for me actually, and give the most rewarding feeling when you see a breakthrough. But EXTREMELEY frustrating and draining until I started to see change

Edited July 3, 2022 by Devin

[Inliytened1]

10 minutes ago, Devin said:

I don't want to make them drink, I don't even want to lead them to water. I just want a group of horses that like to drink to go be a part of a group that doesn't, some of the non-drinkers will at least question drinking, and some will drink.

I get it trust me.  It's a valiant effort.   The problem is if they are open minded they are going to find the group anyway without you.   Basically you are talking about marketing spirituality.   If someone wants to find out about spirituality they will.  How much you advertise won't make a difference here.  Or maybe it turns one in a thousand on and they click the button.  Fine.  What I'm saying is it that won't make a dent in changing what is going to naturally occur anyway.

[Devin]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I get it trust me.  It's a valiant effort.   The problem is if they are open minded they are going to find the group anyway without you.   Basically you are talking about marketing spirituality.   If someone wants to find out about spirituality they will.  How much you advertise won't make a difference here.  Or maybe it turns one in a thousand on and they click the button.  Fine.  What I'm saying is it that won't make a dent in changing what is going to naturally ocurr anyway.

I've already had this discussion in this thread, I'm not going there to preach, I just legitimately join the group and just be with them, I never even talk about spirituality.

[Devin]

Here's maybe a tidbit that will add clarity

I don't believe you need to read anything, listen to anyone, do anything, to become conscious.

I think loving people, sort of lets them relax enough, to sort of crack one of their eyes open.

[Inliytened1]

5 minutes ago, Devin said:

Here's maybe a tidbit that will add clarity

I don't believe you need to read anything, listen to anyone, do anything, to become conscious.

I think loving people, sort of lets them relax enough, to sort of crack one of their eyes open.

Experience raises consciousness. 

[Devin]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Experience raises consciousness. 

I think I think differently, I see it more as letting go of ignorance.

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Devin said:

I think I think differently, I see it more as letting go of ignorance.

It's the same thing.   

[Devin]

15 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It's the same thing.   

Then I don't understand the reference.

Let me give you a scenario I hope you consider;

Think of all the conscious teachers you've ever known of
Now think of never knowing about any of them

Are you more or less likely to become conscious or less unconscious in one scenario over the other? and try to consider the scenario with the teachers without the formal teachings.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Devin

[Jannes]

I think you hold the belief that the world needs to be saved by you because it gives you a sense of self importance. It feels great to be a superhero but that’s just your ego talking. Most people arent ready to awaken and wouldn’t benefit from high level teachings because they are where they are… But that’s just my take on it I might be wrong.

It all just sounds like modern preaching and gives me cult vibes. 

[Devin]

7 minutes ago, Jannes said:

I think you hold the belief that the world needs to be saved by you because it gives you a sense of self importance. It feels great to be a superhero but that’s just your ego talking. Most people arent ready to awaken and wouldn’t benefit from high level teachings because they are where they are… But that’s just my take on it I might be wrong.

It all just sounds like modern preaching and gives me cult vibes. 

I don't teach people anything, or preach, and I'm not asking people to do that

[Inliytened1]

22 minutes ago, Devin said:

Then I don't understand the reference.

Let me give you a scenario I hope you consider;

Think of all the conscious teachers you've ever known of
Now think of never knowing about any of them

Are you more or less likely to become conscious or less unconscious in one scenario over the other? and try to consider the scenario with the teachers without the formal teachings.

The question is would you have found those teachers regardless?  I'm trying to point to Infinity.   Things unfold precisely how they mean to.   This is God's will.   You can try to inject your will.  But it is the Will of God that holds all.  So you trying to raise other's consciousness is God's will.  You not doing it would also be God's will.   Either way, God's will is at play.

[Devin]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

The question is would you have found those teachers regardless?

I don't think anyone needs a teacher, I actually think following teachings slows down progression.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Devin

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, Devin said:

I don't think anyone needs a teacher, I actually think following teachings slows down progression.

If you take them on as a belief system yes.

[Devin]

6 minutes ago, Devin said:

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

If you take them on as a belief system yes.

I think they are distractions, I think the quickest way is feeling/listening to what they call your intuition

 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Devin

[Eph75]

A coaching like stance in a conversation, means asking questions or in other supporting ways help others to get lost in thought and self-exploration. 

Coaching should have no agenda or desired outcome other than help people grow in whatever ways they best need.

In that sense, there is no room or need for teaching, mentoring and least of all preaching. 

And this, as a process, helps accelerating the growth process of others. 

I'm reading into this, a coaching like approach inside essentially an arbitrary conversation, for the sake of others finding whatever benefit they need for themselves, based on a mode of conversation that increases the chances of being catlyzing. 

Is the need to do something like this likely to stem from some personal need to fill some gap? Well yeah sure. Everything we do is biased in some way or another. That doesn't make it bad. And it can be very helpful and impactful on an individual's life, it can help change people's lives, iterally. 

Coaching and it's effects are documented. Just like therapy is. And still, in both cases, it's the other person that needs to define the problem/need and also do the work needed. 

I'd stretch as far as to say that we should do this in every single conversation that we have. It's essentially just great communication and relationship building skills. 

Simply a means of having great and increasingly deep and meaningful  conversations with others. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Eph75

[Devin]

14 minutes ago, Eph75 said:

A coaching like stance in a conversation, means asking questions or in other supporting ways help others to get lost in thought and self-exploration. 

Coaching should have no agenda or desired outcome other than help people grow in whatever ways they best need.

In that sense, there is no room or need for teaching, mentoring and least of all preaching. 

And this, as a process, helps accelerating the growth process of others. 

I'm reading into this, a coaching like approach inside essentially an arbitrary conversation, for the sake of others finding whatever benefit they need for themselves, based on a mode of conversation that increases the chances of being catlyzing. 

Is the need to do something like this likely to stem from some personal need to fill some gap? Well yeah sure. Everything we do is biased in some way or another. That doesn't make it bad. And it can be very helpful and impactful on an individual's life, it can help change people's lives, iterally. 

Coaching and it's effects are documented. Just like therapy is. And still, in both cases, it's the other person that needs to define the problem/need and also do the work needed. 

I'd stretch as far as to say that we should do this in every single conversation that we have. It's essentially just great communication and relationship building skills. 

Simply a means of having great and increasingly deep and meaningful  conversations with others. 

Thanks, I like that

I don't really think you even have to try to coach them, I'm not saying you shouldn't, but I won't. I don't even really think the level of conversation is critical, you can feel when someone cares about you, and that's what I think is important.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Devin