Is artificial intelligence conscious?

[Jannes]

6 hours ago, StarStruck said:

Something material (a computer) can't produce something immaterial (a soul/an intelligence)

A brain (material) might produce conscious states (immaterial) if you follow the theory that consciousness is a product of the material world.

If that’s not the case and the material world and the immaterial world don’t merge its still possible that there are "AI conscious states“. Just like the brain itself isn’t conscious but we can still attribute certain conscious states to it. So we could attribute certain conscious states to AI even though it might not be the physical AI that produces it. ?

[Jannes]

2 hours ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

Consciousness is both Creator and Creation. The seemingly apparent separation is an illusion. 
 

hmm ? 

2 hours ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

No, I wouldn't say you're selfish. It only means you're focused. 

Isn’t focusing on one thing over the other selfish ?

2 hours ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

The very fact that it's happening should tell you that it is okay. If you want to echo it for you then "Yes, it is okay to murder people, and do all kinds of horrid things". 

No, their suffering is not as beautiful as joy. Joy is joy, and suffering is suffering. I don't know where you're getting this from because I never said such a thing. Differences do actually exist, what I'm saying is that their source is one and are thus one. I'm not excusing murder and passing it as affection, or something like that.

From what you said earlier I got the sense that you mean that ultimately there are no differences. For example a stone worths just as much as a human (when you are geologist for example) or AI as much as a biological creature. And so I wasn’t sure how far you would take that believe in the relative roam and so by giving some challenging examples I wanted your opinion.

2 hours ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

Yes. Otherwise we wouldn't have made it. Anything we're willing to spend our time on has to be precious and important. Isn't that obvious?

Hmm maybe ? 

[Mason Riggle]

"Consciousness is both Creator and Creation. The seemingly apparent separation is an illusion. "

19 minutes ago, Jannes said:

hmm ? 

@Jannes if you seriously contemplate this until you grasp it, this will clear up soooo much for you. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Mason Riggle

[Jannes]

1 hour ago, Mason Riggle said:

"Consciousness is both Creator and Creation. The seemingly apparent separation is an illusion. "

@Jannes if you seriously contemplate this until you grasp it, this will clear up soooo much for you. 

I put it to my current contemplative ideas ?

[A Fellow Lighter]

2 hours ago, Jannes said:

Isn’t focusing on one thing over the other selfish ?

I don't know. Perhaps... Define selfish? 

2 hours ago, Jannes said:

From what you said earlier I got the sense that you mean that ultimately there are no differences. For example a stone worths just as much as a human (when you are geologist for example) or AI as much as a biological creature. And so I wasn’t sure how far you would take that believe in the relative roam and so by giving some challenging examples I wanted your opinion.

Well, it would be foolish not to acknowledge these differences. Remember, I also mentioned that I treat entities accordingly to what they are. This is because I acknowledge how.. say a bear is different from a flower.. if you don't treat each with the necessary respect, you could find yourself in a shit pile of trouble. 

2 hours ago, Jannes said:

For example a stone worths just as much as a human (when you are geologist for example) or AI as much as a biological creature

Worth is a personal thing, isn't it? Like there's nothing absolute about it. However, the difference of worth on the absolute level of consciousness is not even a question at all since both the human and the stone already exists. Consciousness does not have to choose to attend to one or the other because we do that for it.. us.. the finite expressions. When I choose to attend to the rock, and you choose to attend to the human, then Consciousness as a whole has attended to both rock and human. Or what's even better, Consciousness does not even have to consider the difference between the two entities because there has never been a need for Consciousness to differentiate.

And so, on the absolute level, everything has equal worth. 

[Jannes]

10 hours ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

I don't know. Perhaps... Define selfish? 
 

Focusing on one thing over the over would be my definition for selfishness. 

10 hours ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

Well, it would be foolish not to acknowledge these differences. Remember, I also mentioned that I treat entities accordingly to what they are. This is because I acknowledge how.. say a bear is different from a flower.. if you don't treat each with the necessary respect, you could find yourself in a shit pile of trouble. 
 

So when you destroy a computer and a cat for example even though both fundamentally have the same worth it’s still not good to destroy a cat but it’s okay to destroy a computer because a cat has feelings while a computer doesn’t ? 

10 hours ago, A Fellow Lighter said:

Worth is a personal thing, isn't it? Like there's nothing absolute about it. However, the difference of worth on the absolute level of consciousness is not even a question at all since both the human and the stone already exists. Consciousness does not have to choose to attend to one or the other because we do that for it.. us.. the finite expressions. When I choose to attend to the rock, and you choose to attend to the human, then Consciousness as a whole has attended to both rock and human. Or what's even better, Consciousness does not even have to consider the difference between the two entities because there has never been a need for Consciousness to differentiate.

And so, on the absolute level, everything has equal worth. 

I don’t think I get it ?

[Mason Riggle]

7 hours ago, Jannes said:

Focusing on one thing over the over would be my definition for selfishness. 

So when you destroy a computer and a cat for example even though both fundamentally have the same worth it’s still not good to destroy a cat but it’s okay to destroy a computer because a cat has feelings while a computer doesn’t ? 

I don’t think I get it ?

@Jannes perhaps think of it like this-  if you were to take a very 'far away' perspective of the ongoings of Earth.. an 'alien onlooker' perspective.. with no reason to care what happens on Earth.. from that perspective, is it 'okay' when a Lion kills and eats a Gazelle?  How about from the Gazelle's perspective? 

Relatively - from a certain perspective, it's not okay, or it is okay. 

Absolutely- from the 'absolute' perspective, it's neither 'okay' or 'not okay'.. it's 'necessary and obvious'. 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Mason Riggle

[Leo Gura]

The only thing that's conscious is you.

It would be nice if you stopped dreaming up bullshit

[Matthew85]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The only thing that's conscious is you.

@Leo Gura Leo, what is your definition of conscious in this context? Everything is made of consciousness and has different  types of awareness. 

[Mason Riggle]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The only thing that's conscious is you.

It would be nice if you stopped dreaming up bullshit

^the bullshit I'm dreaming up   

Always important to do the thing you should stop doing in order to remind yourself to stop doing it.  

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, Matthew85 said:

what is your definition of conscious in this context?

You. Only you.

[Matthew85]

@Leo Gura Yes, but for example if I use my consciousness to create a tree. The tree is made of my consciousness and is also me and has awareness. Or to use the example of this thread AI. I feel it's more accurate to say AI is conscious, it's just another part of your larger consciousness. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Matthew85

[Mason Riggle]

@Matthew85 I think Leo's suggesting that Everything is 'Consciousness', and that's what you are.   

We tend to get confused when we say things like 'my consciousness' or 'having consciousness'.. this would be like talking about reality like this: Does an imitation Christmas tree have reality?  Is it just another part of my larger reality?   

Saying 'the tree is made of my consciousness' is like saying 'the tree is made of my reality'.... confusing. 

Rather, consider that 'Reality' is all there is, and it's everything there IS, and you're that.  There is no separation between 'you' and 'reality' such that there can be a 'your reality' and 'my reality'.. same with consciousness.  Humans don't 'have consciousness'.. they are consciousness, because everything IS. 

[Matthew85]

@Mason Riggle Very well said. Where I feel some are getting confused is in believing that only I am conscious, feeling and experiencing. This is not what my direct experience and insights have revealed. Everything has awareness. The type of awareness may be different, but there is still awareness. 

[Mason Riggle]

@Matthew85 absolutely.. I often ask people if they think trees have awareness. (yes, this language is not how I would prefer to think about it, but it's the way I seem have to communicate about it)  My follow up question is, how do they know which direction to face their leaves if they aren't aware of the Sun?  Many people associate awareness with 'seeing' or 'hearing' or something like that, but I think it's much more subtle.  

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Mason Riggle

[Matthew85]

@Mason Riggle Anyone with any expanded degree of awareness would know tree's are conscious and aware. When I read on the forum people describing others as NPC characters, not having awareness, feelings and experiences, it's obvious they are confused. Eventually they will awaken and feel everything they have ever caused another to feel, the good and bad. Then they will realize the oneness and conscious awareness of everything. 

[Mason Riggle]

@Matthew85 for sure.  Oneness is a strange concept for some and difficult to grasp, until you do. 

 

[A Fellow Lighter]

12 hours ago, Jannes said:

So when you destroy a computer and a cat for example even though both fundamentally have the same worth it’s still not good to destroy a cat but it’s okay to destroy a computer because a cat has feelings while a computer doesn’t ? 

What is good, and what is not good, is a for you to decide, friend. I am only telling you that whatever decision you make is okay in the eye of Consciousness, since Consciousness doesn't understand worth, It is above that. According to It, all is equal.

12 hours ago, Jannes said:

I don’t think I get it ?

That's okay. ? So long as we are trying, that's all that matters.

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by A Fellow Lighter

[Leo Gura]

@Matthew85 There is nothing outside your personal consciousness.

You are the beginning, end, and totality of reality.

You are dreaming all dreamers. The only dreamer is you.

So these constant discussions of who else is aware but you, are stupid.

[Matthew85]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is nothing outside your personal consciousness.

You are the beginning, end, and totality of reality.

You are dreaming all dreamers. The only dreamer is you.

So these constant discussions of who else is aware but you, are stupid.

@Leo Gura Perhaps we have different perspectives on this. Yes, others are me, but I don't agree they don't have awareness just as I Matthew have. In my normal limited state of Matthew I have blocked my ability to perceive this. But in expanded states you can become aware of the other fragments of your consciousness. Or using the tree example. The tree is me and has awareness. But in a limited state I won't be able to perceive that. Leo you yourself have written how in expanded states you can experience what sex feels like from your girlfriends or women's point of view. That shows you these aspects of your mind are conscious and are feeling as you are. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Matthew85