Posted June 30, 2022 Some say God created itself. Logically this is false. The source didn't choose to give birth to itself. Giving birth is only possible for those who are alive. To give birth to oneself means to be dead and then to become alive by choice. But if one is dead then one can't give birth so there is no option to give birth to itself. So God must be uncreated. Meaning it has no choice but to exist unless it can commit suicide. It can give birth to stuff. That is called "God's creation". Thoughts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 30, 2022 @IamYou And you dare to talk about logic with that username?! Foolish until proven other-wise Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 30, 2022 @IamYou if reality is non-dual - which you can become directly conscious of - then it has to create itself - in the ultimate paradox. You have to realize that paradox is the fabric of Infinity or reality and logic is content held within Infinity- it is not the structure. The structure is boundless and thus is prior to logic. Wisdom. Truth. Love. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 30, 2022 @Inliytened1 No if non-duality is real then actuality is a necessity, and of want neither of god nor its power to create itself. If reality is non-dual then god as inevitably conceptual in communication is void of all meaning that is not also present without that concept, If non duality is real than our descriptions of a god owed a definition is false, if god is owed no definition that is not equal in truth value its referent then the claim "it has to create itself" is vacuous, empty, meaningless, absurd, silly, ambiguous and corrupted. how much can you bend your mind? and how much do you have to do it to see straight? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 30, 2022 something like that the absence of limits makes everything potential to be, that is to say that existence exists, and is creating itself now. only that now is always, since what is not now is non-existence, and that does not exist. there is only you, right now, it is an instant that has no limits, so it is eternal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 30, 2022 @Inliytened1 It doesn't have to create itself if its uncreated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 30, 2022 @Breakingthewall In your experience you aren't creating yourself right? You simply exist without any effort. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 30, 2022 @Cykaaaa So you think you are giving birth to yourself right now or are you already alive? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Reciprocality said: @Inliytened1 No if non-duality is real then actuality is a necessity, and of want neither of god nor its power to create itself. If reality is non-dual then god as inevitably conceptual in communication is void of all meaning that is not also present without that concept, If non duality is real than our descriptions of a god owed a definition is false, if god is owed no definition that is not equal in truth value its referent then the claim "it has to create itself" is vacuous, empty, meaningless, absurd, silly, ambiguous and corrupted. God created logic, all logic is relative. What you don't understand is this. If God is Ultimate Truth, then whatever God decides is true. God created logic, thus God supercedes logic and cannot be bound by it. This means God is illogical, cannot be understood by logic. So stop trying to logic God...or keep doing it for all eternity if you want lol. That is actually a path to awakening so you know what....keep doing it. You will eventually figure it out....might take a couple life times. Edited June 30, 2022 by Razard86 You are a selfless LACK OF APPEARANCE, that CONSTRUCTS AN APPEARANCE. But that appearance can disappear and reappear and we call that change, we call it time, we call it space, we call it distance, we call distinctness, we call it other. But notice...this appearance, is a SELF. A SELF IS A CONSTRUCTION!!! So if you want to know the TRUTH OF THE CONSTRUCTION. Just deconstruct the construction!!!! No point in playing these mind games!!! No point in creating needless complexity!!! The truth of what you are is a BLANK!!!! A selfless awareness....then that means there is NO OTHER, and everything you have ever perceived was JUST AN APPEARANCE, A MIRAGE, AN ILLUSION, IMAGINARY. Everything that appears....appears out of a lack of appearance/void/no-thing, non-sense (can't be sensed because there is nothing to sense). That is what you are, and what arises...is made of that. So nonexistence, arises/creates existence. And thus everything is solved. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 30, 2022 21 minutes ago, Razard86 said: thus you have to love it how much can you bend your mind? and how much do you have to do it to see straight? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, IamYou said: Giving birth is only possible for those who are alive. Alive/dead aren't useful distinctions here. Consciousness is immortal. Birth is a belief. 2 hours ago, IamYou said: Some say God created itself. Logically this is false. The source didn't choose to give birth to itself. Creation means using things to create new things. But we're talking about source here, and source couldn't have been created. Anything that was created can't be source. Source/God doesn't need anything like that. There being a process, a beginning, an end, are all human concepts/beliefs. God isn't human, and you can't understand it with conventional human/Blue logic. Take away your assumptions about reality, and suddenly concepts of no time, no process, no structure, no birth, no death, etc. become simple. God/infinity was always there. You won't find it on a timescale. Edited June 30, 2022 by thisintegrated Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, IamYou said: @Inliytened1 It doesn't have to create itself if its uncreated. Creation and uncreation is a duality, yes. But when we say it created itself it doesn't mean it dualistically had to think about it then create itself (like the hand drawing itself)....I mean, it IS that but prior to time, space or even thought- it doesn't work in a linear fashion like the finite mind would. Infinity doesn't require thought. Now that's a mind fuck ? but that is omniscience. Wisdom. Truth. Love. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 30, 2022 @thisintegrated Didn't I claim what you are claiming? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 30, 2022 @Inliytened1 Before you decided to create yourself what were you doing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 30, 2022 52 minutes ago, IamYou said: @thisintegrated Didn't I claim what you are claiming? Umm, no, no you did not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 30, 2022 It sounds like you're hung up on a biological perspective of birth and death. Just one random example --- what if you could give birth to yourself by turning yourself inside out? You create something that looks and acts entirely different, but you're still there alive on the inside. 1 becomes 2, but also technically still 1. Yes, Everyone on the Internet Is a Loser. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 1, 2022 (edited) Creation and non-existence are duality. It’s a tricky thing to talk about. God is all there is. God is prior to time or creation. God created itself, because God transcends and includes itself, existed prior to itself, is completely eternal, is infinite paradox. I remember a definition given by Leo is “God is the thing that created itself” God is a verb and a noun. God is Godding. OP has a point, how can eternity have a beginning? How can something existed for ever have a beginning? How can is choose to create and be one way over another way? Infinite intelligence. infinity “The Tao can be spoken is not the eternal Tao” - Lao Tzu This is an area I need to contemplate more and have more direct experiences of. I don’t know. Technically, the universe was created… Right now. Everything Now! Edited July 1, 2022 by Thought Art "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver ◭"89"◮ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted July 1, 2022 @IamYou You speak of things you clearly aren't conscious of. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
