Doesn't Spirituality Reveal A Monumental Flaw In The Practice Of Psychology?

[The White Belt]

When you spot a deep dark cloud in the mind that may pass, isn't going to see a psychologist going to make it a lot worse?

I mean, think about it.

The ego loves to cling, it loves to conceptualize, it loves labels.

When you go to a psychologist, or a therapist, isn't the first thing they do is to say, 'Ahh, okay. You are depressed/You have OCD/You have anxiety/You have PTSD'.

Now don't get me wrong, I know talking about things can be very helpful! Yet some people only go to these initial consultations to discover what the initial issue is, and don't follow through with the help. Isn't labeling these things like taking ten steps back!?!

I mean, all of things things are qualitative, nobody really has OCD, anxiety, depression, PTSD, in the sense that it is a one-size-fits-all costume. These things could be totally unique, and could pass much more easily without the need for some diagnosis for the Ego to cling to. Further yet, the Ego may even start to delude itself into further symptoms upon realising what these definitions entail.

This isn't without direct experience. Once upon a time I had anxiety, and once I started to drop the thoughts that I am an anxious person, and I feel like this, like that, and became just mindful of the raw sensations and the thoughts that came up, without as much judgement, it began to fade to the point where i've pretty much forgotten what it's like to be anxious.

 

Thoughts?

[Martin123]

@BeginnerActualizer Depends on a therapist. If he tries to fit client's experience into a box then yes, that is problematic. Then again it is up to the client as well.

There are many therapists who don't work with diagnoses at all. In fact this approach is preffered. Therapy and psychology is still very young, and it is evolving. 

 

Right now at this moment I am having a psychology class on intelligence. Im just sitting here wondering that 1. My lecturer is just kinda dull and doesn't perform well introducing these topics

2. Intelligence is just a social construct. You create a norm and measure how others fit into it, which creates more judgement, more ego and more problems. So psychology is kinda going in a retarded direction at this point in time. Lets see how it goes in the future

[Neo]

Quote

The ego loves to cling, it loves to conceptualize, it loves labels.

Yes agree fully. And it also loved crutches and that's why we have millions of people on SSRIs, Citalopram (Celexa), Escitalopram (Lexapro, Cipralex), Paroxetine (Paxil, Seroxat), Fluoxetine (Prozac), Fluvoxamine (Luvox), Sertraline (Zoloft, Lustral).

Glad to pack these up 3 - 4 months ago. Not suggesting people with serious conditions pack up medication spontaneously without due diligence.

 

[Nahm]

@BeginnerActualizer I'm so with you on this topic. The diagnosis should be a description of what the person should do for themselves to feel better. Not an increased focus on the dissonance. 

The tough part is the variance of psych issues. I think there's a majority chunk that should not be labelled and can be ratified with simple eating habits,  meditation and or exercise. Big Pharma is a major thing in this era. Then there are some more serious cases of course where scripts seem to be necessary - because in hind sight they made a huge positive impact. Just where the heck does the mind end and the legitimate psych diagnosis and script start? I don't know but you raise a great question. Society wise, if we could all just get on the well being - healthy plan, maybe we would shake a lot of these problems out over a generation or so. I know this will get me some ridicule here, but I think all roads lead to "fixing" these things vibrationally, or with sound frequencies. My heart really goes out to anyone experiencing any psych trauma, depression and anxiety. It's just the worst thing. A symptom is the lacking in positive perspective, and that makes everything else one is perceiving in their life look a way that makes it so hard to push through. Love is the most powerful healer, but what do you do when someone can't receive the love?

[The White Belt]

1 hour ago, Martin123 said:

2. Intelligence is just a social construct. You create a norm and measure how others fit into it, which creates more judgement, more ego and more problems. So psychology is kinda going in a retarded direction at this point in time. Lets see how it goes in the future

Agreed. It is a social construct. Oh jeez.

 

"Everybody is a Genius. But If You Judge a Fish by Its Ability to Climb a Tree, It Will Live Its Whole Life Believing that It is Stupid" - Albert Einstein

[Nahm]

Intelligence is the fabric of the cosmos. It is revealed through all of us. It is quantum computing, random number generator experiments. It is the bond between body and mind. It is all things. Through the door of separation and observation of intelligence itself, lies intelligence itself. 

 

[Toby]

What you write is not exactly true. Many psychologists and even psychiatrists know that the diagnosis is just a label for a set of symptoms. And the label is used so that they can write a bill that insurance then pays for. They know that it is not real or true. But of course, there are also many pychologists who completely believe in the labels and labeling and see people completely as objects.

Also, there a different view points and models in psychology. Some of them are actually very good. For example transpersonal psychology or some of CG Jung's work. I mean, CG actually studied Ramana Maharshi's teaching and other spiritual approaches. You see that in his work.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Toby

[The White Belt]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

Glad to pack these up 3 - 4 months ago. Not suggesting people with serious conditions pack up medication spontaneously without due diligence.

 

Glad you managed to. Agreed that it should be done diligently, but the quick, easy fix, is far from the best solution in the first place! 

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

@BeginnerActualizer

Society wise, if we could all just get on the well being - healthy plan, maybe we would shake a lot of these problems out over a generation or so.

Agreed Phil. It seems the collective ego's problem is the obsession with more. More solutions, more medicine, more treatment. I bet 90% of mental health issues could be dealt with through meditation, mindfulness, acceptance, and other chemical-free, cost-free solutions. It's funny that more and more doctors are recommending these 'spiritual' practices. You're going full-circle you idiots! This stuff has been known about for thousands of years! 

[The White Belt]

4 minutes ago, Toby said:

What you write is not exactly true. Many psychologists and even psychiatrists know that the diagnosis is just a label for a set of symptoms. And the label is used so that they can write a bill that insurance then pays for. They know that it is not real or true. But of course, there are also many pychologists who completely believe in the labels and labeling and see people completely as objects.

I agree that what I'm saying is not completely true, because I'm generalising.

I'm coming from the point of looking at your everyday psychologist or therapist. Not a revolutionary one. Certainly not Carl Jung. 

I'm from England, and here we have the public 'National Health Service' or the NHS. Everyone with mental health issues, big or small, will be assigned practictioners of more of less the same standard, so majority of the country, unless they're private, more or less will be initially given a nice little pamphlet with what they now 'have' and all the symptoms that go with it.

 Perfect for the ego! 

Just so you know what experience I'm coming from. Of course not all psychology works this way, but I think it's safe to say that a LOT of it does. 

[Martin123]

@Phil You are simplifying and going into a hippie mode. Be careful with that. If there is anything tricky, it is the mind. Believe it or not eating healthy doesn't fix decades of emotional abuse, hard-wired negative beliefs and cultural and social oppression, as well as biological rammifications of neglected emotions. It requires time, it is counter intuitive, and it is noy as simple as "lets all love and eat healthy". 

Not saying nutrition isn't important, but don't mistake a tool of clarity for solution and actual healing.

[Saarah]

I can't remember whose quote this is but someone once said "All problems are psychological, all solutions are spiritual" 

[Martin123]

@BeginnerActualizer NHS runs on CBT which is a big dysfunctional lie within of itself. The relapse time is around 2 years yet they keep on denying it whilst leading uk deeper and deeper into a major mental health crysis. The generation of today's 20 somethings will become suicidal soon, everyone is just derping around hoping for a partnet alcohol or material issue to fix their mental health.

[Martin123]

@BeginnerActualizer Im studying in Scotland, NHS is here. Idk whtf's in England I assume it won't be very different, Im not from the UK originally, but I get the feeling that UK's mental health is shiiiit as fuck man. 

[The White Belt]

@Saarah Excellent quote! Quite summarises what I'm getting at! @Martin123 CBT has its uses, but it certainly isn't big picture thinking. 

[Martin123]

@BeginnerActualizer I mean... I do tend to hate on it big time, because it is just such a partial approach.
CBT deals with the realm of beliefs and thoughts. And then they literally "try to talk you out of your own beliefs".
WHAT THE FUCK
It's not as simple as saying "yo you AARE good enough, it is just your mind fucking you up"
If it were, we don't need self-help, therapy, coaching, and spirituality altogether.

You would just go "Oh you aare enlightened" and rocked onto other realms of being.

[AlwaysBeNice]

Yeah.

Our society loves to be the victim of things, 'oh, the weather sucks, the train is late, he did something inappropriate, now I feel bad just because of that, having nothing to do with my own mind', psychiatry is largely an extreme expression of that: 

'I am the victim of broken brain, life is flawed, where is the superior human made pill that can fix me, I can't do anything.'.

Whereas you can always think positive, (learn to) still the mind, face the trauma that stirs up the mind and rest as peaceful awareness.

Talking to reveal suppressed trauma is good, teaching people the above concepts is good, but when that is put onto the background of that materialist victim sense, it's baaaad: toxic ineffective medicine AND teaching people they can't do anything about it. 

And nature made mind-medicine, they are called psychedelics.

[Nahm]

@Martin123 I appreciate your input and I also think you are putting your own color on what I said and commenting to me as if I said what you perceived. I can certainly appreciate the need for professionals and time in cases of deeper issues. Absolutely. Twenty years ago I experienced Zoloft, Paxil, Wellbutrin, etc. One day, a nurse said to me "I'm tired of seeing you here. Start eating better, stop consuming caffeine and sugar. You're not even giving yourself a chance." 

I was more coming from this perspective......My dad did nothing for his PD. I don't think he ever exposed himself to the idea or category of it at all. So he was pissed all the time. He lived to work without even knowing it. I love consuming self help and PD. I eat healthy, meditate & exercise. My kids see that instead of what I grew up in. The difference this will make in their life is profound, but only by comparison to the shit they would have had to undo, like I did.  

Maybe people could just try the healthy PD path before or in conjunction with any other plan that benefits them. 

Edited February 6, 2017 by Phil

[Nahm]

@Martin123 My kids couldn't tie their own shoes if I did not show them how.

 

Alwaysbenice.......And nature made mind-medicine, they are called psychedelics.......That is just a damn good quote right there. 

Edited February 6, 2017 by Phil

[Martin123]

@Phil Aight. Ater all all Im getting here is a text on the screen, I have 0 background of yours so you gotta forgive me for getting the hippie vibe feel.

[Nahm]

@Martin123 Salrightbro. Thanks. Your intuition is spot on. I am a hippie vibe guy, no doubt.  When I was younger, I thought little of the hippy type. After learning about quantum mechanics, metaphysics, mental homeostasis, meditating for 20 years, etc, and maybe a few psychedelic travels, now I'm thinking the hippies were right all along. 

 

-God damn hippies!

         -Eric Cartmen