Truth is perspectival

[Someone here]

Is it 6 or 9?(see the picture below).

Its both depending on where are you standing. And of course it's not just 6 or 9..if we Zoom into it we shall find all the numbers combined together in that symbol. 

So it's actually infinity.  And only appears as 6 or 9 relative to the observation. 

The truth is not isolated. It's intertwined with the observer.  

When looking for the truth.. One should make a distinction between the  Truth.. And his own truth.  The  Truth is always infinite. While one's own truth is one's own perspective and POV. Always partial

Of course most of you are familiar with the parable of the elephant and the six blind men ...

As Leo said "the elephant is infinity" its every possible perspective and POV  that it can be looked at from. 

 

Six blind men came across a large elephant one day that was strolling through their village. Having never seen an elephant before. each of the six men placed their palms upon the elephant to help them experience what was in front of them.

The first man argued that the elephant felt like a large pillar. as he touched the elephants leg.

The second man argued that the elephant felt like a large tree... as he touched the elephants trunk.

The next man argued that the elephant felt like a long rope. ... as he touched the elephants tail.

The fourth man argued that the elephant felt like a huge wall. ... as he touched the belly of the elephant.

The other man argued that the elephant felt like a big fan... as he touched the ear of the elephant.

And the sixth man argued that the elephant felt like a long hard pipe... as he touched the tusk of the elephant.

Each of the blind men believed that they were right. All of them continued to argue among themselves as each thought they knew what was in front of them. Until one man. who was watching the group from afar... called out to the blind men. “The elephant is a large animal“.

 

THE MEANING OF THE STORY

This one story has many layers of meaning to it!

What you experience in life is a reflection of your own perception and perspective.

Your mind creates your reality in the sense that you do not always see things as ‘they’ are. You instead see things as ‘You’ are.

Your perception of what’s in front of you is determined by the information already within your head. Your ideas... beliefs.. concepts... knowledge and thoughts all influence what you see in front of you... and how you experience it. How you interpret and understand something.. or someone.. depends upon the thoughts and beliefs you have accepted to be true. This is true whether we’re talking about a person.. a thing.. spirituality.. God.. or of course a religion.

In the exact same e way the blind men all felt they were touching something different.. yet they were all touching the same thing.. different cultures and religions see the meaning of this story differently.

The same can be said of how the worlds religions see God. All of the worlds major religions believe in.. and worship.. the same thing. . However none of these religions agree upon the fine details of what God means.

Each has different customs.. different practices.. different dogmas and different beliefs. Yet all the people of these religions are experiencing the same thing.. God. while arguing and dividing themselves from one another due to a difference of perception.

There are many pathways that lead up a mountain. And every traveler on those many different paths see the same mountain from a different perspective. While each path looks different to them... they are all looking at the same mountain.

This is true from a religious perspective. There are many roots to God and Enlightenment. If humanity took an inclusive approach to life.. rather than a divisive approach... we would all have a fuller picture as to how to get there quicker.

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Someone here

[NoSelfSelf]

One of the biggest mindfucks is finding out that every knowledge was just a perspective from the book author in schools etc. You thinking you have the truth by memorizing the information is a joke ? you think you can get the truth by thinking is a joke i think i wasted 10 years of my life with that ?

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

One of the biggest mindfucks is finding out that every knowledge was just a perspective from the book author in schools etc. You thinking you have the truth by memorizing the information is a joke ? you think you can get the truth by thinking is a joke i think i wasted 10 years of my life with that ?

Yes, we can say our perspective is everything. Our internal attitudes toward life and others create the external reality we see.

If we want to see a good reality, we must have positive/good attitudes toward life and others.

[NoSelfSelf]

@Someone here Thats not what i was saying but i agree

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Someone here Thats not what i was saying but i agree

I guess what you were saying is that we get indoctrinated in schools and universities by all the human knowledge that humanity has acquired throughout history and we are not given a chance to self-reflect and derive our own answers...we are spoon-fed the answers of other people.  Without alluding to the fact that all of human knowledge throughout history is just a matter of perspective. And that we can create our own perception of reality based upon our own perspective. 

[VeganAwake]

@Someone here nice bro!

These realizations are like the zen ox taming pictures. 

What you have said here are some of the same realizations that happened to me in 2018/2019.

What happened here is that I took these realizations and applied them inwards into who I was as a person....what makes up this character called ME!!

There seems to be endless and ever-changing perspectives as to what makes up this individual called ME!  It's infinite and can't be pinned down or separated!

This is exactly the realization that nonduality is pointing out. 

❤ 

 

 

 

[Someone here]

@VeganAwake im pointing to something deeper than that. Even the subject of whether we have a self or not is relative and subject to perspective. 

I have a self.

I have no self.

By means of a self I perceive self.

By means of a self I perceive not-self.

By means of not-self I perceive self.

The self of mine that knows is everlasting and will stay as it is forever.

All of these are true and false at the same time. 

 the Buddha  himself  did not explain whether you do or don't "have" a "self". he is saying that such intellectual speculation is not the way to gain understanding. And notice that when one says "I have no self," the sentence assumes a self that doesn't have a self.

So, the nature of the no-self is not something that can be grasped intellectually or explained with words. 

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

@VeganAwake im pointing to something deeper than that.

Deeper ?

 

❤ 

[Breakingthewall]

the truth is absolute. is: you are. the infinite depth is you, there is only you, there is always you. there is no other, only you. As the bible says, I am who I am. according to maharishi it is the best definition of reality. what I don't understand is: how is it possible for me to be? but the fact is that yes... I am. infinite, unfathomable, but always me. there is nothing but me. it is unbelievably amazing: I am god

[NoSelfSelf]

@Someone here there you go yes! thats Game and reason you cant get laid ?

[Someone here]

11 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 what I don't understand is: how is it possible for me to be? but the fact is that yes... I am.

perhaps "how" or "why "would not be the right question and questions may not be the right way to ponder this truth as this real I is perhaps beyond whys and why nots?

I guess that's the real "why" because that's how reality is. 

Yes.. pure potential (reality) is beyond whys and why nots.. yet it manifests identities that ponder why and why not. The answer isn’t validating.. so identities are not usually satisfied with the explanation.. and keep looking for something more self gratifying.

There isn’t any objective reason. All of this is imagined into existence from static potential.. and there is no powerful entity governing it.

[Anahata]

There is no Veil of perception, just 'the act' of dreaming up experience, infinity is All-powerful because it has a Will. God's Will. 

And there is no limit to what God can experience/create. Because God/You is Infinity itself and It's Absolute.

 

 

 

[RMQualtrough]

One thing's for sure, the guy on top of the elephant is completely wacko.

[_Archangel_]

On 28/6/2022 at 8:47 AM, Someone here said:

This is true whether we’re talking about a person.. a thing.. spirituality.. God.. or of course a religion.

@Someone here meh.... in spiritual terms Truth is exacly the absence of perspective, and the absence of the world you look at through your lenses, so no world --------> no perspective----------> just Truth/ God.

If you get the sense that Your experience of God / unity was filteredby the Ego, then it was not God / Unity

Your point only counts for relative worldy things such as doctrines, not God it self.

[Someone here]

@_Archangel_

Often the truths we tell ourselves are merely fragments of the truth and sometimes they're not really true at all. For example, there are people who believe in God and others who don't. Some say God created everything while others believe in the concept of big bang and theory of evolution,so what is the truth? To believe in God or science. The answer is simple it's up to you what you want to believe. 

Things we see,we hear have a great impact on us,some we understand some we don't. Our this understanding level depends on depth of our knowledge. And yes it is a matter of perspective, after all everybody's understanding capacity and knowledge vary and so does the truth.

People live their lives bound by what they accept as Correct and True. That's how they define “ Reality”. But what does it mean to be 'True' or 'Correct'? Merely vague concept. Someone's Reality can be just an Illusion to someone else. Can we consider then that people live in their own world shaped by their own beliefs.

People used to believe it's not possible to hear a voice far away. But today we have made it possible, something that was not true then is true now. This all happened using human knowledge to invent telephone. Truth various from time to time and from person to person, it depends upon how vast our knowledge is regarding that subject. Knowledge is Truth. To know absolute truth we should know everything in this universe, which is beyond human capacity. Absolute truth is just a lie... Or wait who knows might be this concept be true in future

[_Archangel_]

@Someone here You basically repeated your first post and i agree with with you, but still:

51 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Knowledge is Truth. 

If you talk about relative knowledge, such has the longest river in america, no no amount of it wil give you Truth

 

52 minutes ago, Someone here said:

To know absolute truth we should know everything in this universe, which is beyond human capacity.

If again by knowlrdge you mean relative, then no. Actually no can never extenguish relative knowledge by definition.
But truth can be accessed, only that, by then as you say, you will be no longer human as you will have transcended you limitations.
So yes, a human can collect relative knowledge to get to some relative truth, but it shoulds renounce its existence to become absolute Truth.

[Someone here]

@_Archangel_ no .this applies to all kinds of Knowledge. It  depends on the observer. Without perception..there is no truth. 

The question is:

Is truth a matter of perception?

Perceptions = Seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling and thinking

 

No perceptions = No consciousness = No self awareness = No observer= no Truth .

 

Example: Deep sleep, coma and death.

For all we know all of our perceptions are on autopilot without any consciousness selection.

Nobody has even seen any perceiver standing apart all by himself totally separated from the perceptions.

And therefore nobody has ever seen any wall that separates this imaginary perceiver and the perceived. And no one has seen a truth that is independent of consciousness/perception. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Someone here

[_Archangel_]

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

no .this applies to all kinds of Knowledge. It  depends on the observer. Without perception..there is no truth. 

@Someone here haha of course truth exists, but i explained afore that it won't reveal itself as long as ego/pov/perspective is active and percived as solid entity or activity.

 

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

The question is:

Is truth a matter of perception?

Perceptions = Seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling and thinking

 

No perceptions = No consciousness = No self awareness = No observer= no Truth .

That is exacly the point. The aswer is:

Truth is the Content of experience (perception or no perception) but become evident only when there is a shift in the Context of experience (awakening).

So your last line si factually wrong, you CAN have no perceptions and still be coscious (countless material on this has been written, (expecially in Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta, research the practice of Yoga Nidra) so no, Truth is indipendent of perception.
Actually, Truth becomes self-evident without perceptions, sice sensory noise can function as a distraction.
 

4 hours ago, Someone here said:

For all we know all of our perceptions are on autopilot without any consciousness selection.

Nobody has even seen any perceiver standing apart all by himself totally separated from the perceptions.

And therefore nobody has ever seen any wall that separates this imaginary perceiver and the perceived. And no one has seen a truth that is independent of consciousness/perception. 

Good reasoning but wrong conclusion. True, the boundery between perciever and percieved is illusory.
As i've said, you can have conscousness/awereness wothout perceptions.

[Someone here]

42 minutes ago, _Archangel_ said:

@Someone here haha of course truth exists, but i explained afore that it won't reveal itself as long as ego/pov/perspective is active and percived as solid entity or activity.

 

That is exacly the point. The aswer is:

Truth is the Content of experience (perception or no perception) but become evident only when there is a shift in the Context of experience (awakening).

So your last line si factually wrong, you CAN have no perceptions and still be coscious (countless material on this has been written, (expecially in Buddhism and Advaita Vedanta, research the practice of Yoga Nidra) so no, Truth is indipendent of perception.
Actually, Truth becomes self-evident without perceptions, sice sensory noise can function as a distraction.
 

Good reasoning but wrong conclusion. True, the boundery between perciever and percieved is illusory.
As i've said, you can have conscousness/awereness wothout perceptions.

 Are you talking about pure consciousness ?

Because  its a state of mind, where you are free from all the mind activities.

The nature of the mind is to think thoughts, imagine things, accumulate experiences, and impressions and create a circle of thoughts out of it.

Pure consciousness is the purest state of mind.

When the mind becomes a witness and no experiences or impressions remains on the surface of the mind, you experience the mind as pure consciousness.

 

When one can feel and experience the emptiness of the mind .. all activities of the mind comes to ‘zero’ and  all the worldly phenomenon like day , night, hunger , other emotional parameters- become irrelevant etc .. the person is said to be on the state of ‘pure consciousness'.

Or am I misinterpreting what you're saying? 

Certainly pure consciousness devoid of content is possible  .but that's a state that only advanced meditators can do ..and honestly I don't have much direct experience with such thing ..so I better not speak about  what I'm clueless about . 

[_Archangel_]

11 hours ago, Someone here said:

Are you talking about pure consciousness ?

Because  its a state of mind, where you are free from all the mind activities.

The nature of the mind is to think thoughts, imagine things, accumulate experiences, and impressions and create a circle of thoughts out of it.

Pure consciousness is the purest state of mind.

When the mind becomes a witness and no experiences or impressions remains on the surface of the mind, you experience the mind as pure consciousness.

 

I get the feeling that we mean the same things, but we have different way expressing them.....
What you call Pure consciousness i was calling Truth