Leo how can you be sure this is a dream?

[WokeBloke]

To preface this discussion I ask you the following question:

If you are the one experiencing with all of the bodies in this world then is this really a dream world? Think about how many lives that is. In other words when your body dies you don't leave this planet. You would be coming right back to the "dream world"

 

According to Leo this is a dream.

Firstly would you agree that to qualify this as a dream the other people in the dream would have to be unconscious?

 

How can you be sure that this is a dream without having woken up from this yet? I say he hasn't woken up from this yet because he is still living in our world.

You might say he has become lucid. If this is true and he is the sole creator of this so-called dream then he should be able to prove his lucidity and acclaimed godliness by getting rid of me. He should be able to control me since I'm just a dream character according to him. He is unable to do this though making his claim unsubstantiated.

And for you too. How can you call this a dream if you are unable to get rid of the dream characters like me? Perhaps these people are more than just dream characters. 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by WokeBloke

[Nilsi]

The notions of dreaming and waking are codependently arising. Drop your stories and find out for yourself.

[WokeBloke]

@Nilsi Do you consider this to be a dream and why?

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by WokeBloke

[Oeaohoo]

It is only a fitting analogy to say that life is a dream. The analogy breaks down when you start to compare the lucid dreamer with the Awakened One. A dream occurs within the consciousness of the individual soul whereas the dream of this world occurs in what the Ancient Greeks called the Soul of the World. Thus, a lucid dreamer can attain to relative omnipotence within the dream because he is its only conscious witness. However, the Awakened One understands that, whilst consciousness is an indivisible unity, they share this consciousness with everybody and even everything else in the dream.

Only God is omnipotent: the Awakened One is one who has annihilated all sense of otherness and so exists in total alignment with God’s will.

[WokeBloke]

@Oeaohoo Then if you are real why call me imaginary if I become you or you become me? If Leo is living all these lives then is it really appropriate for him to call this a dream? What he does to me matters because he is doing it to himself if he is real and we are the same being.

Edited June 27, 2022 by WokeBloke

[Oeaohoo]

@WokeBloke You shouldn’t take these high-level teachings too literally: the problem here is that you are understanding imagination in a dualistic sense in opposition to reality. The purpose of teaching that “this is a dream in the mind of God” is simply to point you towards the realisation that mundane existence is only relative and hence is not ultimately Real. God is living all of these lives not any individual human being.

[WokeBloke]

@Oeaohoo  I do take them literally because how we use language matters deeply.  

It is the individual human (you and me) that is living all the lives in this scenario. So not sure why you consider the human to not be God since it is only the human beings (and animals) on the planet that are living?

When you are interacting with yourself/other (depending on if you are me or not) I call that the waking state. When you are interacting with dream characters while you are asleep I call that dreaming.

In other words if you are me then my life is absolutely real. In fact it's your life.

Edited June 27, 2022 by WokeBloke

[Nilsi]

43 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

@Nilsi Do you consider this to be a dream and why?

 

I gave you my answer.

[Oeaohoo]

1 minute ago, WokeBloke said:

@Oeaohoo  I do take them literally because how we use language matters deeply.

Language matters but language has different functions. In traditional interpretation of religious scripture it was understood that there are four ways to understand a text: literally, socially, philosophically and “anagogically”. This funny last word refers to “a mystical interpretation of a word, passage, or text, especially scriptural exegesis that detects allusions to heaven or the afterlife.” The teaching that we are living in a dream is an anagogic one.

5 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

 

The individual human is "God" in your model.

No. The individual human is one of an infinite panoply of emanations of God. None of these emanations are separate from God, however, because God is the All.

9 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

 

In other words if you are me then my life is absolutely real. In fact it's your life.

Our human lives are relatively real; The only thing that is absolutely real is God.

[WokeBloke]

@Nilsi Both names have been created and mean different things. It's not possible to be dreaming and awake simultaneously. So you are either dreaming or awake to base reality right now. You didn't answer what you think your current state is.

[WokeBloke]

@Oeaohoo You can call yourself God but if you aren't omnipotent (which you aren't because you would be able to do anything right now such as kill me) then it's sort of pointless. There appears to be no omnipotent God. Only limited humans and animals on this planet.

[Oeaohoo]

@WokeBloke I as the human being typing this message am not God, nor is Leo or any other human being. We are all just little rays emanating from the sun of God - will you take that literally too? 

As we are partial emanations of God, however, it is possible to retrace the journey which led us into this illusion of separateness and realise the true identity from which we emerged.

[WokeBloke]

@Oeaohoo So you think you are God or not? Sounds like you believe in a creator separate from yourself.

Edited June 27, 2022 by WokeBloke

[Oeaohoo]

@WokeBloke Both of us are only a part of God’s creation - but our ultimate identity and real nature is not other than God.

If you wanted to put it poetically, you could say that we are only a part of no part apart. 

[Nilsi]

29 minutes ago, WokeBloke said:

@Nilsi Both names have been created and mean different things. It's not possible to be dreaming and awake simultaneously. So you are either dreaming or awake to base reality right now. You didn't answer what you think your current state is.

My state is that there is no difference.

[WokeBloke]

@Nilsi So the people you interact with in your dreams are no different than me in your opinion?

[Nilsi]

1 minute ago, WokeBloke said:

@Nilsi So the people you interact with in your dreams are no different than me in your opinion?

You are still sneaking in the duality of dreaming and waking.

[WokeBloke]

2 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

You are still sneaking in the duality of dreaming and waking.

There's a reason I make a distinction. 

In both dreams and waking state you are conscious. But what you are conscious of is certainly not the same right?

Just like we talk about the difference between hot and cold.

[Nilsi]

1 minute ago, WokeBloke said:

In both dreams and waking state you are conscious. But what you are conscious of is certainly not the same right?

There is no difference between dreams and waking states  

[WokeBloke]

@Nilsi So I am no different than a person you encounter in a dream in your view? The people you encounter in dreams are conscious in your view?