Operating Systems - Thoughts on Windows, Linux & macOS

[UnbornTao]

Which desktop OS do you use and why? What do you think of Windows 11? What about Linux and macOS?

Edited December 8, 2022 by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

GNU/Linux is the option with the most potential. Just learning how to use it is a fun and multifaceted didactic experience.

There are three main base distros (distributions) to choose from: Debian, Fedora and Arch. Most other distros are based on one of those. Debian is the most prevalent and stable, Arch the most cutting-edge, and Fedora a good middle-ground. All desktop environments can be used with any of these base distros, that is, they can be made to look the same.

Some Linux downsides: fragmentation, lack of standardization, technical knowledge and at least some tinkering needed, not as beginner-friendly as Windows and macOS.

One key factor to consider is whether you'd be willing to learn a new system or want it ready out of the box.

Some distros and desktop environments to test out:

• Fedora + KDE
• Vanilla Debian + KDE, Gnome, Gnome with Material Shell
• Arch + KDE and Gnome
• Linux Mint and Pop!_OS (great for beginners and gamers)
• Kubuntu

Edited July 6, 2023 by UnbornTao

[CuteCornDog]

I have Windows 10 on my main computer (10th Gen Core i9 with 128GB RAM and RTX 3070) and on my laptop that's hooked up. I have 10 because 11 wasn't out yet when I set up these computers.

I have MacOS X on a 27 inch iMac that I never use now.

I have Linux on three computers and only use of them which mainly serves a print server for all the other computers in the house.

[Gesundheit2]

I've never gotten the chance to use anything other than Windows. I remember Windows ME as the first OS to play around with when I was a child. Then I basically tried every version of Windows up until 10, which I have right now.

My desktop PC (currently broken; not enough cash to fix it) has 3 OSs: 7, 8.1, and 10.

My laptop has only Windows 7 and 10, the latter which I'm writing from. I haven't installed 11 yet because there's no real reason to, and I don't want to go through that process for now. I'm very perfectionistic when it comes to this stuff, so I don't do it unless it's really necessary. I don't even install regular Windows updates because they ruin the performance, which is not very great to begin with on my 1st Gen - Core i3 laptop.

The reason why I don't have any experience with other OSs is because they're not very popular here (fifth-world country). And they're also a lot more expensive (the hardware, at least). As well, here we mostly use pirated apps, so that kinda makes up for the poverty. I don't suppose piracy is as easy with Apple software, but I don't know. I haven't looked into it.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Gesundheit2

[something_else]

Linux is great, but it requires so much tinkering and it often just breaks for no discernable reason 6 months after you set it up. I was fine with that when I was younger and had lots of spare time to tinker but I ain't got time for that shit now.

Windows is alright. It works, for the most part. And it's the only platform with hassle free gaming if you're into that.

MacOS is, in my opinion, the best balance of both. It has the stability of Windows but it's UNIX based so you still get all the cool functionality of a Linux setup. It also doesn't spy on you nearly as much as Windows.

The only disadvantage is of course that to use it you gotta buy an expensive machine to use it.

[MarkKol]

Linux has the most potential of course, If linux become as popular as windows, It'd be a win for the entire human race. Open source brings so much things to the table. and for that reason I've got no respect for neither Windows or MacOS, both steaming with backdoors Microsoft/Apple built in themselves. that being said I'd never use Linux in its current state, right now... it sucks.

For me the question Is usually up to the computer instead of the OS, I'm mostly into laptops, but they're extremely expensive  M-series macbooks have great battery life, but don't be fooled. you're not getting much performance per dollar, you are... however getting great performance per watt. in other words Windows laptops are still superior in terms of performance, and cost just as much as the macbooks.

p.s don't buy the new m2 macbook air/pro, that thing sucks. My laptop recommendations are either the M1 Macbook for students or a Thinkpad if you want an amazing keyboard. or just about any Windows laptop if you're after performance.

[UnbornTao]

On 7/9/2022 at 10:43 AM, CuteCornDog said:

I have 10 because 11 wasn't out yet when I set up these computers.

Does it fit your needs? What's preventing you from upgrading to 11?

The taskbar was presumably rebuilt from scratch, hence the lack of feature-parity with W10.

@Gesundheit2 

What about Linux? It's free and can breathe new life into old hardware. But as you say, it isn't popular.

On 7/9/2022 at 8:22 PM, something_else said:

Windows is alright. It works, for the most part. And it's the only platform with hassle free gaming if you're into that.

MacOS is, in my opinion, the best balance of both. It has the stability of Windows but it's UNIX based so you still get all the cool functionality of a Linux setup. It also doesn't spy on you nearly as much as Windows.

Linux gaming is decent enough through emulation layers like Wine.

Privacy and security are a serious concern with Windows, plus added telemetry and bloatware. Hence the need for many people to optimize and debloat new installations with third-party apps, or simply switch to another OS.

macOS is more closed and less customizable but also offers a simple and consistent UI with great hardware. Apparently, the Unix-like infrastructure (kernel) provides security and privacy that Windows by design can't.

On 7/9/2022 at 8:26 PM, MarkKol said:

Linux has the most potential of course, for that reason I've got no respect for neither Windows or MacOS

you're not getting much performance per dollar, you are... however getting great performance per watt. in other words Windows laptops are still superior in terms of performance, and cost just as much as the macbooks.

p.s don't buy the new m2 macbook air/pro, that thing sucks.

What's wrong with Linux? I wish it were widely adopted, too.

Hey, advantages can be found to both Windows and macOS.

The M2 Air has been decently improved from the previous one, I hear tell. The Pro seems pointless to me, though.

Which $999 PC is fanless, can stay silent and cold, and offers that kind of performance + 17 hours of battery life with a Macbook's build quality? Can you find a better overall package than the Air at that price range? Dell XPS is likely one of the only contenders.

However, its graphics are a downside. M1 is weak in that aspect.

Of course, it ultimately depends on your needs. Mac may not be suited to you in the first place even despite its features.

Edited November 5, 2022 by UnbornTao

[something_else]

Quote

For serious gamers, then yes, Windows is the best option. Linux gaming is decent using emulation layers like Wine. For some, that's enough.

Privacy is a concern with Windows. Microsoft added spyware, telemetry, and bloatware with Win10. Hence the need to customize new installations with third-party apps. Or switch to Linux or macOS.

macOS is a more closed OS, which is what turns off a lot of people, Leo included, I think. It is less customizable. Classic Apple's walled garden.

It's a nightmare to reliably setup any kind of games on Linux. It requires sooooo much micromanagement to keep all of your games working, especially newer titles or games that update frequently.

I agree with everything in regards to Windows, when I played a lot of games I dual-booted Windows and Linux. Linux for work/programming and Windows for games. That worked quite nicely. But the Linux distro was just totally borked after 6 months.

MacOS is honestly pretty customizable if you really want it to be. But for the most part it doesn't really need any customisation and that's what I like. I used to enjoy tinkering with my tech but now I just want it to not fucking break or require me to pay too much attention to maintaining it. MacOS is pretty good for that

The only thing I really despised was the lack of great support for non-Apple peripherals, but I installed one bit of software that fixed it all.

[Jodistrict]

Windows is becoming worse and more unreliable with every new version.   Today, I just got introduced to the pink screen of death.  

[UnbornTao]

On 7/12/2022 at 4:45 PM, Jodistrict said:

Windows is becoming worse and more unreliable with every new version.

I think that you're right, overall.

Windows became "free" years ago. Now the way you pay is with your data.

Also, humanity will reach Mars before Windows gets a system-wide consistent UI.

To be fair, part of W11's UI has been modernized and made more consistent, which are welcomed changes. New features are implemented extremely slowly, though. Control panel is still there, 8 years later, along with the newer Settings app that was supposed to replace it.

I just hope that they keep focusing on it as it seems that Microsoft's interest for the OS got revitalized since it launched.

Quote

Today, I just got introduced to the pink screen of death.  

Haha.

Only on Windows.™

Edited November 3, 2022 by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

On 12/7/2022 at 4:15 PM, something_else said:

Linux for work/programming and Windows for games. That worked quite nicely. But the Linux distro was just totally borked after 6 months.

Was it Arch-based?

Debian is very reliable and stable while offering old packages whereas Arch provides the cutting-edge packages at the cost of everyday stability.

Fedora may be the one that strikes the best balance -- more stable than Arch and up-to-date packages as opposed to Debian.

Stability: Debian > Fedora > Arch.

New Packages: Arch > Fedora > Debian.

Quote

MacOS is honestly pretty customizable if you really want it to be. But for the most part it doesn't really need any customisation and that's what I like. I used to enjoy tinkering with my tech but now I just want it to not fucking break or require me to pay too much attention to maintaining it. MacOS is pretty good for that.

I don't quite get why some people dislike it so much.

Customization on macOS isn't as granular as Windows, let alone Linux. There are macOS power users, whatever that means. So I guess that macOS isn't as dumbed down as some people think. It's restricting and limiting in some ways, I get that. But limitations allow for some of its benefits.

Windows's telemetry, decades-old design inconsistencies, etc. are significant disadvantages for the average user. It feels like using five OSes in one. 

Edited June 21, 2023 by UnbornTao

[something_else]

24 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Was it Arch-based?

Second time yes. It was Manjaro. Was rolling-release which was absolutely god awful as a developer who needs specific older versions of software for individual projects.

But I've also had a KDE Neon brick itself after about a year, and also Kubuntu as well. Both are Ubuntu (so Debian) based.

27 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

I seriously dislike Windows's spyware and general UI inconsistency. Makes you feel like you're using five operating systems in one.

The UI on Windows since Win 7 has just been a mashup of absolute garbage. Make up your mind whether I'm using a tablet or a PC please 

And please, for the love of god, do not serve me ads in the start menu or the lock screen. That's another criminal thing Windows does.

[UnbornTao]

On 13/7/2022 at 4:38 PM, something_else said:

And please, for the love of god, do not serve me ads in the start menu or the lock screen. That's another criminal thing Windows does.

"Today we're announcing EdgeOS, a groundbreaking OS powered by ads and the web."

Edited June 21, 2023 by UnbornTao

[something_else]

2 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

"Today we're announcing EdgeOS, a new and spectacular OS powered by ads and the web."

Lmao

I recently got asked to fix one of my family members’ Amazon tablets and the thing had fucking ads on the lock screen as well

I think it’s just boomers who dgaf about it. I used to be super anti-apple but the fact that they’d never ever do something like that gets my respect. I’d rather pay up front to avoid it

[thisintegrated]

It's all bad.

 

7 was fine, but basic.  In my youth I didn't really notice design problems, didn't have the awareness for it I guess.

8 was maybe a step in the right direction, but really dumb.  

10 was still just windows 7, with a few tweaks.  Nothing to say really as they didn't change anything meaningful.

11 is still windows 7, and in some ways worse than 10.  Most of the menus are still from the windows 7/XP days.  Control panel still looks ancient.  File explorer still doesn't have tabs and is bloated and impossible to organize.  They can't even add dark mode to stock apps like file explorer and task manager.  Start menu can't be organized, and half the space for icons is taken up by "recommended".   Most parts of the OS are still unchanged in decades.  Zero innovation.  Zero quality of life improvements.

I really have no idea wth all those thousands of designers and engineers with million dollar salaries are doing every day.

 

MacOS is fine, but kinda awful too for anyone who likes control/design/organization/video games.  Apple doesn't know best, but they act like they do, messing things up for everyone.  Good for anyone who's never used a computer before, and is fine paying a 300% appletax for the rest of their life.

 

Linux is objectively the best.  Best performance, customization, and potentially most quality of life features.  But rarely supported and has a toxic programmer/nerd culture I'd rather avoid.

Edited July 13, 2022 by thisintegrated

[UnbornTao]

On 7/13/2022 at 11:57 PM, thisintegrated said:

It's all bad.

Succinct summary lol

Quote

7 was fine, but basic.

8 was maybe a step in the right direction, but really dumb.  

10 was still just windows 7, with a few tweaks. 

11 is still windows 7, and in some ways worse than 10. 

I really have no idea wth all those thousands of designers and engineers with million dollar salaries are doing every day.

Windows 7 was considered the best by many. Consistent, simple, efficient. It just worked.™

8 was a mess. Poor taste and execution, imo.

10 was "free". At that point, they introduced Windows-as-a-service, pushing continuous and often disastrous updates. It included telemetry and bloatware baked-in. Now, your data is what subsidizes Windows.

11 is basically 10 with a fresh coat of paint. To be fair, this statement is likely oversimplified as I'm as clueless as any average PC user.

Your complaints have already been partially fixed in the latest Insider dev builds. Thankfully, the UI is slowly getting refreshed. Give Microsoft a decade or two.

Quote

MacOS is fine, but kinda awful too for anyone who likes control/design/organization/video games.  Apple doesn't know best, but they act like they do, messing things up for everyone.  Good for anyone who's never used a computer before, and is fine paying a 300% appletax for the rest of their life.

Gaming ≠ Mac.

Paying upfront for an adfree, consistent, seamless, and private experience, great hardware included? To people like me whose priorities are light tasks, it is worth it.

Have you checked out Apple Silicon? It's blowing the competition out of the water in terms of performance/efficiency.

Quote

Linux is objectively the best.  Best performance, customization, and potentially most quality of life features.  But rarely supported and has a toxic programmer/nerd culture I'd rather avoid.

Not very suitable for the average person, though.

Average users want a plug-and-play experience. With Linux, even choosing a distro is paralyzing, and that's just the first decision to make. Then you have to choose desktop environments, display and window managers, etc.

Customizable Linux laptops might be the future, surely they have potential. If not... time to switch to FreeBSD.

Edited November 2, 2022 by UnbornTao

[thisintegrated]

3 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Windows 7 is considered one of the best OSes done by Microsoft. Consistent, simple, fast. It just worked.™

 

3 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

What? 8 was shit, poor taste and execution. Probably the worst. Hence why they released 8.1 so fast.

 

3 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

11 is basically 10 with a fresh coat of paint.

Yeah.  No meaninful changes.

 

3 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

A lot of your complaints have already been fixed, at least partially, in the Insider dev builds.

Nope.  Maybe just tabs, but that's still like 5 years away from public release, and is just one of many problems with explorer, and is just a problem with explorer which is a small part of the OS.

I've written whole essays about its many problems before, so I won't get into every detail.  But explorer alone has at least a dozen UX flaws.

 

3 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Slowly but surely the UI is getting refreshed... until Microsoft chooses a new design language and scraps the Win11 one. 

In windows 10 I had a 3rd party program which allowed me to stretch out the start menu to take up half the screen, and I could organize apps into groups (e.g. games, utilities, graphics, audio, etc.), now I can do nothing, and half the space for icons is useless "recommended" stuff which I can't remove.

 

3 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Tabs are coming for File Explorer in the 22H2 update! So all you said is WRONG!! Kidding.

Yeah.. After I've been asking for this basic feature for like a decade.  And where's dark mode!!!  How hard can it be to add dark mode to task manager.. seriously..

 

3 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Nah, I don't think their salaries are that high. If they are then fuck me. At least make a stable OS that gets out of the user's way.

Average salary probably around 120k-300k at Microsoft.

 

3 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Paying upfront for an adfree, consistent, seamless and relatively private experience? Worth it to me.

MacOS has just as many problems as Windows.  And when there's a problem they'll make it hard to fix it yourself as they want you to bring it into store so you can pay to get it fixed.

 

3 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Excellent hardware, too. Have you checked out Apple Silicon? They are blowing a lot of machines out of the water.

Yeah they're efficient, but that alone doesn't make them worth it.  You pay a crazy apple tax, yet get the most boring, least innovative laptop.  Can't flex.  Don't have touchscreens.  Can't even play games despite it costing way more than a top tier gaming PC.  And you can't pirate stuff as easily either, so you end up spending not 300% more than necessary, but more like 1000% more overall.  Bad investment proposition.

 

3 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

But it isn't user-friendly. Most average users just want a plug-and-play experience. With Linux, the need to choose a distro is already an obstacle to that.

It can be.  E.g. look up Zorin.  A Windows clone.

 

3 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

When is it going to be the year of Linux? I wished it got adopted much more widely. Linux laptops could be the future.

I think it's likely coming one day.

 

[MarkKol]

On 7/12/2022 at 4:25 PM, UnbornTao said:

What's wrong with Linux? I also wish that it was more widely adopted. But hey, Windows and macOS aren't all bad either. Maybe you can find benefits to them.

Its complicated, and that's a flaw not a feature. at least in consumers' eyes. You've seen those "Linux users installing a web browser" memes? running commands vs clicking an icon to open a program, there's a clear winner.  wisemen say... Linux is free, if you don't value your time.

 

On 7/12/2022 at 4:25 PM, UnbornTao said:

The M1 is weak on graphics. However, I dare you to find a better all-around package than the Air, at that price range.

 

the m1 macbook is great, I admit. but the m2 air, not as much

edit: I shouldn't hold strong opinions until its released but that's my prediction

Edited July 14, 2022 by MarkKol

[UnbornTao]

On 7/14/2022 at 2:39 AM, thisintegrated said:

Nope.  Maybe just tabs, but that's still like 5 years away from public release.

Tabs plus other cool features will arrive in the fall of 2022.

Explorer and task manager already support dark mode in insider builds. I get what you mean though.

Quote

In windows 10 I had a 3rd party program which allowed me to stretch out the start menu to take up half the screen, and I could organize apps into groups (e.g. games, utilities, graphics, audio, etc.), now I can do nothing, and half the space for icons is useless "recommended" stuff which I can't remove.

Yeah. Basic at best.

Microsoft rebuilt the taskbar and start menu from scratch. That's why they lack basic functionality from previous editions.

Quote

MacOS has just as many problems as Windows.  And when there's a problem they'll make it hard to fix it yourself as they want you to bring it into store so you can pay to get it fixed.

Sounds nihilistic to me.

What's wrong with macOS?

Depends on your needs. Freed from bias, advantages to any OS can probably be found.

Quote

You pay a crazy apple tax, yet get the most boring, least innovative laptop.

Can't even play games despite it costing way more than a top tier gaming PC.

And you can't pirate stuff as easily either, so you end up spending not 300% more than necessary, but more like 1000% more overall.

You're being unfair. Apple tax? A Dell XPS costs the same while the Air offers better performance and battery life, while remaining cold and silent. All without ads, telemetry nor bloatware.

Apple is ludicrously expensive and Intel MacBooks were bad and overpriced.

The way I see it, depending on your needs, M1 is one of the best investments you can make. With an unparalleled resell value, durability and years-long reliability. It's also getting new AI and machine learning functionality.

Compared to a similarly-priced PC laptop, which one would hold up best after four years?

Pirating in what sense?

You're right. Mac and serious gaming aren't compatible as of now.

Quote

It can be.  E.g. look up Zorin.  A Windows clone.

Zorin looks pretty good for beginners. I've used Elementary OS for about six months and liked it a lot.

What about manufacturers? With Windows and Mac no decision needs to be made except between those two. In Linux there are tons of distros to choose from. That's already too much responsibility for the average user.

There's no standard Linux distro that is mainstream and that gets installed by default in new PCs except Ubuntu, maybe? 

Edited October 13, 2022 by UnbornTao

[UnbornTao]

On 7/13/2022 at 10:04 PM, something_else said:

Lmao

I recently got asked to fix one of my family members’ Amazon tablets and the thing had fucking ads on the lock screen as well

I think it’s just boomers who dgaf about it. I used to be super anti-apple but the fact that they’d never ever do something like that gets my respect. I’d rather pay up front to avoid it

I always remain suspicious of dirt cheap tech products precisely because of these practices.

Edited October 13, 2022 by UnbornTao