Trans women are women! Why? Love and Truth that's why

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, JoeVolcano said:

Not to me, but frankly no definition holds up. It's simply not possible.

That's emptiness for ya. Nothing in the apparent world has any inherent nature. Try to find it and pin it down and you will literally come up empty.

That's why nobody can find an airtight definition of woman, or man, or life for that matter. Yeah that's right, you can't, because there isn't one.

Some people just take their time getting there...  ?‍♂️ 

Cheers

It took me 30+ years to figure this out lol. Not a lot of easy pathways to this point. Its like you gotta have an unearthly desire for truth to even realize this. If I told my past self this 2 years ago he would have called me a fool and bust out laughing.

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, JoeVolcano said:

Not to me, but frankly no definition holds up. It's simply not possible.

That's emptiness for ya. Nothing in the apparent world has any inherent nature. Try to find it and pin it down and you will literally come up empty.

That's why nobody can find an airtight definition of woman, or man, or life for that matter. Yeah that's right, you can't, because there isn't one.

That is all true, but regardless of calling people by their preferred pronouns or not, if you were to choose the definition which makes the most sense (or the one you like the most), which one would you pick?

[Carl-Richard]

18 minutes ago, JoeVolcano said:

I started typing up all sorts of nuanced shit from every possible angle, but I just can't escape the fact that I can't be arsed to pick one. I just don't think it's worth making a fuss over it one way or the other.

Do you do this for something like "mailman", "toothbrush" or "toilet"?

 

18 minutes ago, JoeVolcano said:

More importantly for our purposes, I think these kinds of topics are childish to begin with. Petty human bullshit, to borrow from Leo. You can wallow in this shit for the rest of your life and never make an inch of progress. If this is the level you're stuck at then you have yet to take the first step into true human development. There are no solutions at this level, the only solution is to leave it behind.

Oh yeah, so you're just some ethereal smut without a body that floats around in the sky disconnected from all of society and human endeavors? Stop it. I'm asking for your preferences as a human, not for a lesson on metaphysics.

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, JoeVolcano said:

Lol absolutely, I feel zero urge to define those things. I'm sympathetic to your case but you're not really helping it right now. 

 

I told you what they are. I can't be arsed to make a fuss over it, that's my preference.

Maybe things would already be a hell of a lot better for everyone, if more people felt that way. What do you think?

Cheers

I guess I forgot this category existed for a second :

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

(...), most people don't really care about whether definitions make perfect logical sense or not —they just care about using words to communicate and relate to other people, (...)

 

[Carl-Richard]

Just now, JoeVolcano said:

There's a pre- and a trans- version of that category.

(no pun intended...)

Cheers

Yeah, same with the logical one  

[Carl-Richard]

3 hours ago, JoeVolcano said:

No the logical is what separates the pre-logical from the trans-logical...   ? 

Cheers

Ah, I thought you meant "pre-non-logical" and "trans-non-logical", which didn't make much logical sense 

[Roy]

28 minutes ago, BenG said:

Indeed, the fascist definition.

You know my great grandpa on my moms side fought for the Nazis, he was a pilot in the Luftwaffe. I also have blond hair and blue eyes......... oh god it's all coming together! I'm a fascist NAZI! I just looked over at my drapes, giant swastikas everywhere!

HELP ! 

[Roy]

6 minutes ago, BenG said:

just to dismiss something very real in the modern era

Oh I'm not dismissing it, there are some very real problems going on. It's just to bring it up as analogous to fascism is well, insane.

[bejapuskas]

@BenG @Razard86 I guess I just hate when people try to be right when it just undermines somebody elses sense of self and makes them have a trauma response and they keep pushing even then. When their perspective is not even hundred percent right. There are for example so many women who even a transphobe would consider women who are after menopause or they have a disorder etc. who cannot have kids. 

Sorry for tagging random names I can't delete them for some reason, mods delete them for me if you can thank you.

[bejapuskas]

@JoeVolcano What do you even mean by things getting done? Doesnt achieving more loving accepting society where trans people dont get raped 7x more etc. count as things getting done? Do you think world should just remain stuck in this place that serves the privileged? 

Also like sports, I already said this somewhere, but if you care about fairness, dont look at gender, just look at performance, speed, resilience... If you still think gender is a factor here idk what to tell you. Should Magnus Carlsen compete with a beginner chess player just bcz theyre both male? Even within genders you have inadequacies.

[bejapuskas]

@JoeVolcano Thats easy to say when you dont get hate crime for wearing what you want, called wrong pronouns and names, assumed about so much, considered a threat, not automatically accepted by family, bullied for who you are etc. Dont minimize peoples experiences. You dont even know how long theyve been questioning and how long theyve had to "grow out". Id rather have the entire cisgender community grow out of selfishness and entitlement though. You already receive more life every day, because all these things dont apply to you, not even mentioning rape and suicide statistics. There are millions of trans people in the world, its not just some petty personal cause, and they dont receive the love that you do in so many areas of life. Your life can still be difficult in other ways, but dont forget that trans people also have lives and they have the discrimination plus all the other challenges. That is what drives so many to kill themselves. If you see that as something that should be overlooked for your own comfort of not having to respect people, if you see people as radical for wanting equal rights, then thats pretty damn disgusting.

[Carl-Richard]

16 hours ago, BenG said:

The biological essentialist definition is inconsistent by the logical definition of inconsistent, (produces contradictions). "makes the most sense to me" doesn't actually give a definition more weight logically speaking. 

A circular definition is fundamentally inconsistent, which is what I was referring to.

 

16 hours ago, BenG said:

You're right though, I really don't care about logically consistent definitions. Not unless you can actually find one in which case I'll care a lot. Good luck with that. What I care about right now are definitions which are constructed for the soul purpose of excluding certain groups of people. (biological essentialist definition in a nutshell). Indeed, the fascist definition.

A circular definition is actually not a definition at all. You just want people to not use definitions?

[integral]

Gender is how you are, how you think and how you act are all in alignment. 

[integral]

13 minutes ago, JoeVolcano said:

Trying to fit into any definition, or trying to fit any definition to you, is exactly what takes you out of alignment.

its the reverse, you define it, you are it and so it is alignment. 

Edited June 30, 2022 by integral

[BeHereNow]

39 minutes ago, JoeVolcano said:

How is that even a gender issue. Everyone has that issue. That's "the human condition", the divided state. Adding gender to it doesn't help, it only hinders. Trying to fit into any definition, or trying to fit any definition to you, is exactly what takes you out of alignment.

"People of themselves don't go for truth. They try to adapt society to their desires. And they go where they can get favorable answers. And they associate with people that flatter them. But that isn't truth." - Richard Rose

Cheers

Why are you so obtuse? Do the existence of trans and gender non-conforming people take you out of alignment? Seriously, like from direct experience you can't just wish the gender dysphoria away like that.

[BeHereNow]

18 minutes ago, JoeVolcano said:

The dysphoria only exists because of definitions. I'm not trying to dismiss this stuff, I'm trying to show the way out.

Wow, not only did you prove my point but I find sentence to be very condescending too. Don't take that as me accusing you as being transphobic or anything but it just comes as ignorant and myopic if I'm being honest.

Gender Dysphoria isn't some tumblr wumblr nonsense, it's an actual diagnosable condition that I have and the treatment can have positive consequences for people. There was a time last year I felt so hopeless about my transition that I attempted to go back for a while, but that was one of the worst mistakes of my life. I felt gross, anxious and very suicidal. Presenting as a male, performing in that role and just people having masculine expectations of you, when you feel down to your soul that you're a woman, it feels damn right degrading and humiliating. Yeah, I bought it on to myself when I attempted to detrans so I have no one else to blame but still, why would you expect others to go through that just to say, "they're in alignment"? 

Hopefully this will show you another point of view.

Cheers

[Thought Art]

 

They're walking around
Head full of sound
Acting like
We don't exist
They walk in the room
And stare right through you
Talking like
We don't exist
But we exist
Daddy it's true
I'm different from you
But tell me why they treat me like this?
If you turned away
What would I say?
Not the first betrayed by a kiss

Maybe it's true
They're staring at you
When you walk in the room
Tell 'em it's fine
Stare if you like
Just let us through
Just let us through
Na na na na na na na
Na na na na na na na

They're down on their knees
Begging us please
Praying that we don't exist
Daddy it's fine
I'm used to 'em now
But tell me why they treat me like this?
It's cause we do it like this

Na na na na na na na
Na na na na na na na
Maybe it's true
They're staring at you
When you walk in the room
Tell 'em it's fine
Stare if you like
Just let us through
Just let us through

Let 'em stare! Let 'em stare!
If that's all they can do!
But I'd lose my heart
If I turned away from you

Oh Daddy don't turn away
You know that I'm so scared
But will you watch me drown?
You know we're going nowhere
We know that we're young
And no shit we're confused
But will you watch us drown?
What are you so afraid to lose?

Down on your knees
Begging us please
Praying that we don't exist
You're down on your knees
Begging us please
Praying that we don't exist
We exist!
We exist!

Down on your knees
Begging us please
Praying that we don't exist
You're down on your knees
Begging us please
Praying that we don't exist
We exist!
We exist!
We exist!
We exist! Na na na na na na na, na na na na na na na, na na na na na na na

Maybe if you hang together
You can make the changes in our hearts
And if you hang together, you can change us
Just where should you start?

[Thought Art]

@JoeVolcano Don't preach deconstruction to people who are in a mode of construction.

Just, let it go. 

[Razard86]

21 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

That is all true, but regardless of calling people by their preferred pronouns or not, if you were to choose the definition which makes the most sense (or the one you like the most), which one would you pick?

I got one, a woman is a human being (let's not debate this term lol) with XX Chromosomes who has clearly visible characteristics associated with what is known as woman. Breasts and a Vagina. I think that is the best one could do to make that label as specific as possible.

Trans would be a modifier. Like the word tall or short is a modifier. So a Trans woman would comprise a different definition. This is the best idea I can think of at this time.

[Etherial Cat]

4 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

I got one, a woman is a human being (let's not debate this term lol) with XX Chromosomes who has clearly visible characteristics associated with what is known as woman. Breasts and a Vagina. I think that is the best one could do to make that label as specific as possible.

Trans would be a modifier. Like the word tall or short is a modifier. So a Trans woman would comprise a different definition. This is the best idea I can think of at this time.

https://healthjade.net/swyer-syndrome/