Thought experiment... dissolving the body piece by piece

[axiom]

Thought experiment: 

Most people tend to feel like their centre of existence lies somewhere behind their eyes. This is because the visual field is the most hypnotic and information-rich of our senses.

So, if you were born without eyes, where would you locate yourself? Maybe in the ears? 

What if you were born blind and deaf? Where would you locate yourself then? Maybe in the hands?

What if you were also unable to feel anything in your hands? Where would you locate yourself then? Maybe in the mouth?

What if you had no physical senses at all? Where would you locate yourself?

In deep states of meditation you can progress from feeling like your centre is behind your eyes, to feeling like the centre is wherever you happen to place your attention. Ultimately, this need not be anywhere on the body. 

[VeganAwake]

What's really shocking is realizing there just isn't anyone there period!!

❤ 

[Nilsi]

3 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

What's really shocking is realizing there just isn't anyone there period!!

❤ 

And who exactly has this realization?

[axiom]

@VeganAwake I agree.

@Nilsi Conventionally we assume that it’s not a realisation that it is possible to have in real time since an ‘I’ must surely have it. Nevertheless it does appear to be true.

Within the materialist paradigm, the ‘I’ is a trick of the brain which is appended to experiences, but is not a prerequisite for them. It can be switched off under certain circumstances (stroke, psychedelics, meditation etc). Thus the ‘I’ can realise it is imaginary, but only after the fact (when the Default Mode Network comes back online)

It is possible to train the mind such that the DMN is permanently quiet. Turns out the ‘I’ is not really needed for the body to go about its business. Anecdotally, it seems to be possible for there to be a realisation that the I is not real and to hold this as a direct experience that is happening to noone. 

Experience and ‘I’ seem to be separate functions within the brain.

Edited June 27, 2022 by axiom

[Nilsi]

@axiom You are talking about ego-death, which of course you experience, otherwise there would be no such thing.

[VeganAwake]

40 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

@axiom You are talking about ego-death, which of course you experience, otherwise there would be no such thing.

Yeah man & it's not even ego death because it was never real or alive from the start....it was a misunderstanding or misidentification as being that!

It's similar to when there was a belief that santa claus was real....that belief creates an experience with all kinds of additional thoughts and feelings about this illusory jolly dude bringing everyone presents.

No one actually recognizes it because the recognition is that there isn't a someone there....but nonetheless it's completely obvious!

It's the end of knowing because how could anything be known when the knower wasn't real from the start!

No one left getting caught up in personalized experiences often referred to as the Matrix!

Then everything just becomes the immediacy of THIS apparent reality...BOOM direct and in the face!

❤ 

Edited June 27, 2022 by VeganAwake

[Nilsi]

2 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

No one actually recognizes it because the recognition is that there isn't a someone there....but nonetheless it's completely obvious!

You are making this up.

[axiom]

@Nilsi Some would say that this is the very foundation of awakening.

To what does experience appear if not to an 'I' ... admittedly the very idea seems totally incoherent at first glance. But the reason it might seem so inextricable is because the 'I' always finds a way to weasel its way into experience. In the same way, the feeling of existing behind the eyes seems utterly unshakeable... and yet it can be shaken.

Semantics can cause confusion as usual, of course.

[Nilsi]

Just now, axiom said:

@Nilsi the 'I' always finds a way to weasel its way into experience

There is no experience without an I.

[axiom]

1 minute ago, Nilsi said:

There is no experience without an I.

Who knows.

[Nilsi]

2 minutes ago, axiom said:

Who knows.

I

[VeganAwake]

13 hours ago, Nilsi said:

You are making this up.

Well I'm not really sure if you understand what was being said....most of the time this communication is totally misunderstood.

I like to help truth seekers because that's what I used to think I was.....making things up is not how I try and help!

❤