Any real mystics on this board?

[Heart of Space]

I'm just curious.  I know for almost for a fact, like 99.9% positive that there is a real deep mystic on this board.  It's a hard topic to talk about, because most people I don't understand the experience of mysticism first hand.  However, I'm extremely curious how common the phenomenon is, and what form it takes, because the form it takes seems to be painted completely by your past experiences.  When I ask if there are any real mystics I'm talking about people who have undeniable experiences of the supernatural on a regular basis, such as different forms of clairvoyance.

I also think that the phenomenon happens on a very large sliding scale of intensity.  From experiences of basic supernatural levels of empathy, to full on getting actual visions of future events, knowing others thoughts and feelings, and an infinite other possibilities via channeling infinite wisdom and intelligence.  

Does anyone have an extremely vetted source of information that I read that would extremely accurately portray what mysticism is?  Kind of in the vain of Evelyn Underhill's work on mysticism, which seems after as I've seen to be one of the most genuine and real accounts portrayed in an extremely intellectual and academic way.  However, some of it is a little too long winded, wordy, and based on a lot of intellectualization and concepts.  I have trouble relating and understanding all of it completely.  Any other good portrayals?  There's the obvious Life of a Yogi of course, more artful and colorful version.  

Any thoughts?  

Edited June 23, 2022 by Heart of Space

[Proserpina]

Keyhole/Loba is a mystic,  I think.  

Her writings seem to come from another dimension. 

[Zeroguy]

8 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

Keyhole/Loba is a mystic,  I think.  

Her writings seem to come from another dimension. 

I agree.She integrates pictures and music in her's writings so amazingly well.True artist not just mystic.

[Oeaohoo]

4 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

When I ask if there are any real mystics I'm talking about people who have undeniable experiences of the supernatural on a regular basis, such as different forms of clairvoyance.

Most spiritual - in the higher sense, and even including many mystical - paths view things such as divination and clairvoyance as distractions to be avoided. The attainment of these supernatural faculties has generally been valued primarily as a sign and reflection of a specific spiritual state.

I would also say that in a certain sense clairvoyance is not really supernatural: it is just a sublimated and refined form of nature, like water vapour compared to ice cubes!

4 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

I also think that the phenomenon happens on a very large sliding scale of intensity.  From experiences of basic supernatural levels of empathy, to full on getting actual visions of future events, knowing others thoughts and feelings, and an infinite other possibilities via channeling infinite wisdom and intelligence.  

These are all very feminine applications of mysticism so if there is anyone here like you describe, they are likely a woman…

To digress a little, this is a good example of the influence of feminism on the New-Age conception of spirituality. After all, from the Oracle of Delphi to the Nordic Voluspa, female priestesses have always been valued for their capacity to foresee the future and channel various supernatural influences. I hope no one would be upset if I said that their natural passivity and receptivity make them the perfect vessels for wisdom to pass through; that is why in alchemical terms the feminine is lunar and the masculine is solar. This is also seen here in that all of the things you describe as mysticism involve applying spiritual capacities to earthly ends: the woman as Mother Earth/Nature and the Goddess Gaia.

4 hours ago, Heart of Space said:

Does anyone have an extremely vetted source of information that I read that would extremely accurately portray what mysticism is? 

Mysticism is a somewhat confused concept, which is appropriate because the forms of spirituality it refers to are generally also somewhat confused. Though the word derives from the initiations and Mysteries of antiquity, whose purpose was the deliberate union of the initiate with the Godhead, it’s meaning today is inextricably bound up with the Christian context in which it emerged. Given the more dualistic nature of this context, particularly the duality between creature and Creator, mysticism came to refer to the emptying out (Kenosis) through various ascetic practises of the fallen and sinful creature so that they could become the perfect receptacle of their Creator. In it’s final phase, which is even somewhat noticeable in the late Christian mystics such as St. Teresa of Avila and certainly in your description of mysticism above, it has come to refer to the passive reception of certain advanced spiritual state which, however, are almost always not Theosis; that is, annihilation of the self and total union with God.

[Carl-Richard]

I would use the word "psychic" instead of "mystic" in this context. Mystics simply want to experience God. Psychics have psychic abilities, and they may achieve them through mysticism or the occult.

[Heart of Space]

49 minutes ago, Oeaohoo said:

Most spiritual - in the higher sense, and even including many mystical - paths view things such as divination and clairvoyance as distractions to be avoided. The attainment of these supernatural faculties has generally been valued primarily as a sign and reflection of a specific spiritual state.

As far as my understanding, from experience and others description you definitely do not necessarily have a choice.  The mystical state simply becomes an aspect of your reality.  As in you simply cross the threshold outside of modern societies idea of the limited natural world.  For me it is unavoidable, but to your point it is extremely easy to become attached to the supernatural experiences.  Like desiring foreknowledge of future events.  

49 minutes ago, Oeaohoo said:

I would also say that in a certain sense clairvoyance is not really supernatural: it is just a sublimated and refined form of nature, like water vapour compared to ice cubes!

Well, it goes outside of the bounds of natural materialistic science and would be considered supernatural by those in modern culture.  That's basically what I mean.  

49 minutes ago, Oeaohoo said:

These are all very feminine applications of mysticism so if there is anyone here like you describe, they are likely a woman…

To digress a little, this is a good example of the influence of feminism on the New-Age conception of spirituality. After all, from the Oracle of Delphi to the Nordic Voluspa, female priestesses have always been valued for their capacity to foresee the future and channel various supernatural influences. I hope no one would be upset if I said that their natural passivity and receptivity make them the perfect vessels for wisdom to pass through; that is why in alchemical terms the feminine is lunar and the masculine is solar. This is also seen here in that all of the things you describe as mysticism involve applying spiritual capacities to earthly ends: the woman as Mother Earth/Nature and the Goddess Gaia.

I'm fairly certain that mysticism is not necessarily a feminine thing, I don't see it as gendered at all.  Although, your ability to ascend (or descend) into a mystical state depends on your belief set, so I could see one gender being statistically favored in becoming a mystic?  But I recognize your historic examples as a good point to consider.  

That being said, the natural difference in the psychology of the different genders would definitely very much influence how the mystical state would express itself.  Ultimately, the content of the mystical state is almost entirely subjective and personal.  

49 minutes ago, Oeaohoo said:

Mysticism is a somewhat confused concept, which is appropriate because the forms of spirituality it refers to are generally also somewhat confused. Though the word derives from the initiations and Mysteries of antiquity, whose purpose was the deliberate union of the initiate with the Godhead, it’s meaning today is inextricably bound up with the Christian context in which it emerged. Given the more dualistic nature of this context, particularly the duality between creature and Creator, mysticism came to refer to the emptying out (Kenosis) through various ascetic practises of the fallen and sinful creature so that they could become the perfect receptacle of their Creator. In it’s final phase, which is even somewhat noticeable in the late Christian mystics such as St. Teresa of Avila and certainly in your description of mysticism above, it has come to refer to the passive reception of certain advanced spiritual state which, however, are almost always not Theosis; that is, annihilation of the self and total union with God.

I'm extremely unconfused about what I'm referring to as mysticism, just for the record.  The historical use of the word maybe confused with multiple definitions and it is a very hard thing to pin down because of the infinite ways in which it can express itself.  There are mystical experiences that I think most spiritual people wouldn't even recognize as experiences that are possible because of how absurd they are.  It's just a really difficult thing to pin down and then there is the tendency for people to be genuinely delusional about experiencing something that is mystical.  Like a the false interpretation of reality that a schizophrenic may have, or just someone with false beliefs about reality.  

There's a difference between those who are delusional about having mystical experience and those who actual do.  

Edited June 23, 2022 by Heart of Space

[Nilsi]

11 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

There's a difference between those who are delusional about having mystical experience and those who actual do.  

This difference is the point at which you give up on trying to explain your experience. You can push it quite far though. So one persons mystical state might be another persons daydream or active imagination or whatever. I would not want to undermine anyones experience by telling them that they are deluded about what they experience, you would basically be telling the person that he/she is insane.

[Heart of Space]

5 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

This difference is the point at which you give up on trying to explain your experience. You can push it quite far though. So one persons mystical state might be another persons daydream or active imagination or whatever. I would not want to undermine anyones experience by telling them that they are deluded about what they experience, you would basically be telling the person that he/she is insane.

Totally get you.  I'm more saying it's just hard to parse out the genuine mystic versus a person that's delusional.  I'm more interested in hearing from people who have undoubtedly experience strong mystical phenomenon.  If you you are genuinely a mystic the authentic nature of the experience extremely obvious.  Granted if you are beginning to cross that threshold it can be subtle enough to not recognize what's happening.  

I will never point to any person who posts here and tell them they are delusional.  Not my goal.  

Edited June 23, 2022 by Heart of Space

[Breakingthewall]

Michael Jackson is a mystic, but beware! He could organize the crusades and go at the head of an army to conquer Jerusalem

[Oeaohoo]

@Heart of Space I agree with @Carl-Richard that what you are speaking of is more of a psychic than a mystic. I will explain why psychic is a more appropriate term for everything you have described:

11 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

As far as my understanding, from experience and others description you definitely do not necessarily have a choice. The mystical state simply becomes an aspect of your reality. 

It is true that these psychic faculties are often not consciously willed by the individual and that they are often activated without being deliberately pursued beforehand. Nevertheless, from the point of view of mysticism strictly defined, they are a distraction from the real task; like you said, “it is extremely easy to become attached to the supernatural experiences”.

24 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

I'm fairly certain that mysticism is not necessarily a feminine thing, I don't see it as gendered at all.  Although, your ability to ascend (or descend) into a mystical state depends on your belief set, so I could see one gender being statistically favored in becoming a mystic?  But I recognize your historic examples as a good point to consider.  

True mysticism is neither masculine nor feminine. Nevertheless, it has always been understood that psychic capacities are found more in women than in men. Even in the modern day, the advocates and practitioners of New-Age channeling have almost all been women: Helena Blavatsky, Annie Besant, Alice Bailey, Dion Fortune, and so on…

Relating to your example of the schizophrenic: perhaps this is why women are much more likely to be schizophrenic, while men are much more likely to be autistic.

19 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

Ultimately, the content of the mystical state is almost entirely subjective and personal.

No, the truly mystical state is a unification of subjectivity and objectivity, personality and impersonality! The psychic state, however, is mostly subjective and personal.

[Heart of Space]

12 minutes ago, Oeaohoo said:

@Heart of Space I agree with @Carl-Richard that what you are speaking of is more of a psychic than a mystic. I will explain why psychic is a more appropriate term for everything you have described:

It is true that these psychic faculties are often not consciously willed by the individual and that they are often activated without being deliberately pursued beforehand. Nevertheless, from the point of view of mysticism strictly defined, they are a distraction from the real task; like you said, “it is extremely easy to become attached to the supernatural experiences”.

As far as my personal understanding of the mysticism as a whole, physic abilities could encompass one small facet of the greater mystical experience.  

Mysticism is not necessarily defined very well by anyone, because it has to do with the infinite nature of reality and it expressing itself through mostly those who are intensely spiritual or religious.  And it doesn't necessarily exclude psychic phenomenon.  In fact, it very well can include things that would be considered just that.  

In my view it's extremely difficult to say that mysticism includes 'X' or doesn't include 'Y.'  It really has a very general and broad application, so you kind of have to not rely on strict definition.  I think there's a foundation in strong spiritual or religious practice, but beyond that it starts to become less defined as you get into more specific conscious experiences.  

Quote

No, the truly mystical state is a unification of subjectivity and objectivity, personality and impersonality! The psychic state, however, is mostly subjective and personal.

I may lose you here with this.  I think you're confusing mystical states of awakening or enlightenment with what I'm talking about.  Mystics are not always enlightened, in fact, you can have a very unenlightened mystic.  It's possible.  It's a bit of a doozy to parse this out if you're not already privy to what I'm talking about.  It's gonna be difficult to go here in a text conversation.  

Edited June 23, 2022 by Heart of Space

[BipolarGrowth]

I would agree with what many have said here that what you’re referring to is more in line with psychic abilities rather than pure mysticism. Most serious mystics regard the psychic abilities as distractions and lower forms of attainment, but they certainly do arise from going down the mystical path. 

[Heart of Space]

Creating mystical experience can have to do with God worship and I do believe that it has to do with the intensity by which you worship.  If you are genuinely willing to cast your soul into the hyperbolic flames of hell temporarily in pursuit of truth, you will most certainly become a mystic.  

Edited June 24, 2022 by Heart of Space

[Breakingthewall]

we are all mystics with drugs, and without them, practically nobody. we are lucky that they exist, we can be both mystical and mundane

[Heart of Space]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

we are all mystics with drugs, and without them, practically nobody. we are lucky that they exist, we can be both mystical and mundane

Not everyone is a mystic with drugs in the way I am talking about.  Sober and continuous mysticism is mainly what I'm referring to.  

[Oeaohoo]

12 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

If you are genuinely willing to cast your soul into the hyperbolic flames of hell temporarily in pursuit of truth, you will most certainly become a mystic.  

Willingness to die and suffer with extreme intensity for God is one way of opening that door.  

If you are willing to do all of this, why would you waste your time making predictions about the future or getting lost in “astral realms”?

[Breakingthewall]

9 minutes ago, Heart of Space said:

Not everyone is a mystic with drugs in the way I am talking about.  Sober and continuous mysticism is mainly what I'm referring to.

Well, you start with the psychedelics and after little by little you realize that everything is mystical

[Heart of Space]

4 hours ago, Oeaohoo said:

If you are willing to do all of this, why would you waste your time making predictions about the future or getting lost in “astral realms”?

No one is attempting to make predictions necessarily (although maybe it can happen that way).  In my personal experiences the foreknowledge of the future or knowledge of other's thoughts and feelings comes without effort.  It is almost entirely involuntary.  Frankly, the experience can be extremely unwanted at times, it's not necessarily something that's always pleasant.  It can be extraordinarily unpleasant.  

A lot of the mystical elements are completely involuntary and that is a very consistent characteristic of that element of reality.  It's not something that you just decide to do spontaneously.  As in "I could use some money let me conjure up the winning lottery numbers."  

Edited June 24, 2022 by Heart of Space