Another bad date experience...

[Illusory Self]

Thought I would share my date experience because right now it seems to of shifted my mind into a lot of negative thought spirals. I concluded the best thing to do would to share exactly how the date went, how I felt during the date etc... 

First of all I want to say I have been making a conscious effort to really try and improve my personality lately/work on my game. I have no problems in the looks department but my personality is incredibly lackluster. I have been getting a lot of leads from online game for dates - being doing social anxiety challenges during the day & going out 2 nights a week to socialise with girls. I even got a lay the other week. I have been trying to be more funny and socialise by doing at home exercises. 

Anyway on to the date... at the bar we both got drinks, I don't drink alcohol but decided to get an alcoholic drink so I do not come across as strange since she is really into drinking and going to clubs. I know that is the first mistake, I learned from it and am never going to give up my values like that again. It was only 1 bottle of lager. We sat outside with the drinks on some stalls, fairly close to each other. My first impressions of the girl was that she seemed incredibly dull without much of a personality. I found it incredibly hard to talk to her. It is like I would ask her a question & she would respond and then ughhhh what to talk about next...

The theme of the interaction was in my own mind I was very much micromanaging every single thought of my own to not come accross as weird/creepy. It left me blank minded most of the time of not knowing what to say. I was rather quite, whenever she was talking, I was thinking what should I say next. Where do I steer the conversation. I did make her laugh a few times... but the conversation was incredibly aimless, like there was no strategic plan & it was mainly question asking with a few statements here and there. I did not do any pshycality because my fear was way to bad, it seemed even worse because of my intense micromanaging of thoughts. I asked her to come back to mine to watch some movies but she declined because she said to meet her friends (expected as much) since the vibe was horrific but at least that was somewhat stepping outside my fear zone. That was basically the conversation process. Is it my responsibility as a man to make a shy timid girl come out of her shell or do some people just not vibe well? Like if I had good game and the girl was just looking for sex which she said over message, is it up to me to bring her back to mine to close even though it felt so damn hard to talk to her? 

Typical thoughts that go in my mind:

1. What do I talk about?

2. How do I move things forward in a smooth way?

3. What if I say the wrong thing? 

4. Talking is so draining/exhausting

5 . I don't enjoy being here

 

Oh another thing.. I find sometimes I really want to socialize and talk to people and othertimes It is so damn draining and I want to get the hell out of any chit chat because it means I have to open my mouth... 

 

Decades of playing runescape and being a hermit in my mums basement has kind of fucked me up I think when it comes to my socialization and being around others... 

 

Like I know I can socialize and make people laugh, I am a completely different person lately when I am around my family practice humour exercise. It is because I feel more relaxed. When I go on dates I get so damn stifled internally. It is such an inner game problem. 

Now onto my mindset during the interaction, this gets really deep and it feels very much ingrained in my psyche but I would often get thoughts of her not wanting to being around me, saying I have to go or something. I felt incredibly tense. I felt like I did not want to be there. It felt like such a chore, I just wanted to go. At parts I was thinking, I just want to get the hell out of there with no sex. Like I didn't even want to try. Almost like internal torture. I deemed myself unworthy of attracting her. So these thoughts would kind of pop up here and there during the whole interaction. I was constantly scared of saying the wrong thing or being judged.

 

I eventually said lets go when I finished my drunk, we both hugged and parted our ways. This is probably around my 15-16th failed date now, it seems to be getting emotionally challenging for my because there is this thing in my psyche that is constantly wanting to chase girls because I was never good with them to the expense of my own business work and stuff. Like I just want to bang the hottest girls to get it out of my system, then another part of me is like will I ever even change...

Do I just need to do inner work before trying to date?

Every date I go on seems to spiral my mind into negative thinking, anyway I thought I would share this on here to let out my frustrations on not being able to connect with women even though I know what attracts them, I still fail to do any of that. Maybe it is just bad social anxiety. I even get afraid that I might text the wrong thing. 

How do I reframe this and stop this negative thinking when it comes to dating... dating has put me in very bad places in the past and this is a huge obstacle I must overcome.

These dates seriously can affect my self esteem and mind states after it, they typically fail. 

How do I get into a good/happy state before the date? 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Illusory Self

[Snader]

No need to feel bad, you take action and now you ask for some feedback. You are totally on the right rail man, great work!

Some girls are simply shy and some like to play hard to get. In many cases physical escalation works, but even before that you should lower the bar when it comes to talking. Keep bombing words at her, you can talk about the breakfast you ate this morning or the taste of your toothpaste, the content is irrelevant. Don't be so scared to say something stupid, if she's attracted to you, it's hard to say something she would think is stupid, and even if you do, you can laugh at yourself and not take it too seriously. If she rejects you for something silly you said, then she's not a girl to put effort on.

Also, what's the worst that could happen? You lose her. So what? Then you move on. 

With some girls it takes some time to build enough trust for them to be more open. It's up to you to decide whether she's worth all that work. If she doesn't start opening after few dates, then it's probably smart to let her go and move on.

Get into dates with mastery mindset. See it as another step towards becoming great with woman, as a practise to become better socially. Every date will make you better one by one. When you learn to be more chill and detached from the outcome, it becomes fun to go out and socialise. That's why lowering the bar is crucial.

[Illusory Self]

14 hours ago, Snader said:

No need to feel bad, you take action and now you ask for some feedback. You are totally on the right rail man, great work!

Some girls are simply shy and some like to play hard to get. In many cases physical escalation works, but even before that you should lower the bar when it comes to talking. Keep bombing words at her, you can talk about the breakfast you ate this morning or the taste of your toothpaste, the content is irrelevant. Don't be so scared to say something stupid, if she's attracted to you, it's hard to say something she would think is stupid, and even if you do, you can laugh at yourself and not take it too seriously. If she rejects you for something silly you said, then she's not a girl to put effort on.

Also, what's the worst that could happen? You lose her. So what? Then you move on. 

With some girls it takes some time to build enough trust for them to be more open. It's up to you to decide whether she's worth all that work. If she doesn't start opening after few dates, then it's probably smart to let her go and move on.

Get into dates with mastery mindset. See it as another step towards becoming great with woman, as a practise to become better socially. Every date will make you better one by one. When you learn to be more chill and detached from the outcome, it becomes fun to go out and socialise. That's why lowering the bar is crucial.

Yeah, my main sticking point is honestly rapport/connection building. 

Thanks for the advice.

[Leo Gura]

17 hours ago, Illusory Self said:

Thought I would share my date experience because right now it seems to of shifted my mind into a lot of negative thought spirals. I concluded the best thing to do would to share exactly how the date went, how I felt during the date etc... 

First of all I want to say I have been making a conscious effort to really try and improve my personality lately/work on my game. I have no problems in the looks department but my personality is incredibly lackluster. I have been getting a lot of leads from online game for dates - being doing social anxiety challenges during the day & going out 2 nights a week to socialise with girls. I even got a lay the other week. I have been trying to be more funny and socialise by doing at home exercises. 

Anyway on to the date... at the bar we both got drinks, I don't drink alcohol but decided to get an alcoholic drink so I do not come across as strange since she is really into drinking and going to clubs. I know that is the first mistake, I learned from it and am never going to give up my values like that again. It was only 1 bottle of lager. We sat outside with the drinks on some stalls, fairly close to each other. My first impressions of the girl was that she seemed incredibly dull without much of a personality. I found it incredibly hard to talk to her. It is like I would ask her a question & she would respond and then ughhhh what to talk about next...

The theme of the interaction was in my own mind I was very much micromanaging every single thought of my own to not come accross as weird/creepy. It left me blank minded most of the time of not knowing what to say. I was rather quite, whenever she was talking, I was thinking what should I say next. Where do I steer the conversation. I did make her laugh a few times... but the conversation was incredibly aimless, like there was no strategic plan & it was mainly question asking with a few statements here and there. I did not do any pshycality because my fear was way to bad, it seemed even worse because of my intense micromanaging of thoughts. I asked her to come back to mine to watch some movies but she declined because she said to meet her friends (expected as much) since the vibe was horrific but at least that was somewhat stepping outside my fear zone. That was basically the conversation process.

You got really bad game. That's the problem.

Of course the girl was also probably boring, but that's less of a problem than your game.

Quote

Is it my responsibility as a man to make a shy timid girl come out of her shell or do some people just not vibe well? Like if I had good game and the girl was just looking for sex which she said over message, is it up to me to bring her back to mine to close even though it felt so damn hard to talk to her? 

YES!

Quote

Typical thoughts that go in my mind:

1. What do I talk about?

2. How do I move things forward in a smooth way?

3. What if I say the wrong thing? 

4. Talking is so draining/exhausting

5 . I don't enjoy being here

Yup, classic bad game and simply inexperience. All this needs to be worked on and fixed.

Quote

Oh another thing.. I find sometimes I really want to socialize and talk to people and othertimes It is so damn draining and I want to get the hell out of any chit chat because it means I have to open my mouth... 

Decades of playing runescape and being a hermit in my mums basement has kind of fucked me up I think when it comes to my socialization and being around others... 

Yup, this needs to be unlearned.

Quote

When I go on dates I get so damn stifled internally. It is such an inner game problem. 

Yes, exactly.

Quote

I felt like I did not want to be there. It felt like such a chore, I just wanted to go. At parts I was thinking, I just want to get the hell out of there with no sex. Like I didn't even want to try. Almost like internal torture. I deemed myself unworthy of attracting her. So these thoughts would kind of pop up here and there during the whole interaction. I was constantly scared of saying the wrong thing or being judged.

And she felt all that too, because girls feel what you feel. So of course she was not going to sleep with you after that. Why would she? You make her feel unwanted.

Quote

I eventually said lets go when I finished my drunk, we both hugged and parted our ways. This is probably around my 15-16th failed date now,

The silver lining is that you are able to get so many dates in the first place with such bad inner game and poor social skills.

So the good news is, once your inner and outer game is dialed in, you will be getting laid a lot. You should be able to convert 70% of your dates once you are good.

Quote

Do I just need to do inner work before trying to date?

You need outer game too. There is outer game technique to executing a successful date. So keep doing dates and learning from each failure. Failure is okay as long as you're learning from each one.

After each date sit down and write out how you will behave differently on the next one.

It's not enough to just blindly talk to girls. At the end of each night you must analyze what you did wrong and how you will act differently next time.

Quote

Maybe it is just bad social anxiety. I even get afraid that I might text the wrong thing. 

Yeah, you need to learn to let go of all that fear and truly enjoy the date in a relaxed state.

Teach yourself to relax and get out of your head. No thinking, just vibing and enjoying the moment.

Make your date enjoyable, so that YOU enjoy. Not for her sake but for yours. Go to date locations you enjoy being at. Talk about things you enjoy talking about. Why don't you talk about spirituality with her, or whatever topic you're most passionate about? Hell, you could talk about Runescape. Girls don't care what you talk about as long as you're passionate about it. You could talk about different kinds of cheese you like.

Quote

How do I reframe this and stop this negative thinking when it comes to dating... dating has put me in very bad places in the past and this is a huge obstacle I must overcome.

These dates seriously can affect my self esteem and mind states after it, they typically fail. 

How do I get into a good/happy state before the date? 

You literally need to just put yourself into a positive state. Practice it. Go out to a bar/club, then consciously relax and enter a happy mood. Start dancing to the music, start laughing, get comfortable, start talking to people, and get out of your logical head. Keep practicing this night after night until you get good at it. Then practice it on dates, before the date starts.

You can use visualization techniques at home to pre-visualize your dates and even putting yourself into a relaxed and positive emotional state. Do visualization every day for months until you got it locked down.

Stop getting frustrated and depressed, and start doing the inner and outer work. This isn't a matter of luck. You need to train in the proper ways to get the results you want. That's it. Once you are well trained you will get good results, and until then you won't.

You get out of negative thinking by doing constructive work towards your goal.

[Razard86]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You got really bad game. That's the problem.

Of course the girl was also probably boring, but that's less of a problem than your game.

YES!

Yup, classic bad game and simply inexperience. All this needs to be worked on and fixed.

Yup, this needs to be unlearned.

Yes, exactly.

And she felt all that too, because girls feel what you feel. So of course she was not going to sleep with you after that. Why would she? You make she feel unwanted.

The silver lining is that you are able to get so many dates in the first place with such bad inner game and poor social skills.

So the good news is, once your inner and outer game, you will be getting laid a lot. You should be able to converted 70% of your dates once you are good.

You need outer game too. There is outer game technique to executing a successful date. So keep doing dates and learning from each failure. Failure is okay as long as you're learning from each one.

Yeah, you need to learn to let go of all that fear and truly enjoy the date in a relaxed state.

Teach yourself to relax and get out of your head. No thinking, just vibing and enjoying the moment.

You literally need to just put yourself into a positive states. Practice it. Go out to a bar/club, then consciously relax and enter a happy mood. Start dancing to the club, start laughing, get comfortable, start talking to people, and get out of your logical head. Keep practicing this night after night until you get good at it. Then practice it on dates, before the date starts.

Look at all that love Leo is showing. Went piece by piece through the entire long comment. Nice!!

[universe]

Godspeed bro, you are rocking it with that challange!

 

22 hours ago, Illusory Self said:

Is it my responsibility as a man to make a shy timid girl come out of her shell or do some people just not vibe well?

She probably felt insecure herself. You can help her relax and open up. But even if you do that some people just don't vibe.

 

Quote

Typical thoughts that go in my mind:

1. What do I talk about?

2. How do I move things forward in a smooth way?

3. What if I say the wrong thing? 

4. Talking is so draining/exhausting

5 . I don't enjoy being here

1. Talk about what you love/hate, happy moments, vacation, dreams, the things around you. Stay away from politics, religion, stuff that will bring you/her down and anything too rational.

2. Body language, touch, kiss etc.

3. You eliminate the mindset that there is even the possibilty that you could say the wrong thing. Instead you see/evaluate if you like her. And if for some reason you still say something wrong, you laugh about it.

4. Is that really true? Did you ever had a conversation in your life that wasn't draining?

5. Then go, get up and leave. Have some self respect.

 

Quote

How do I get into a good/happy state before the date? 

Smile, listen to something funny. Watch something comedic.

 

Work on these things

1. Embodiment. When you are talking with someone (doesn't matter if it's a date or not) explore your body. Notice. Feel your feet, legs, ass, dick, belly, chest, arms, fingers. Notice where you are feeling. Come out of your head into your body. Relax and stay with the person you are talking to. It's a bit like meditation, you can meditate on all of this as well at home for practice. When the other person talks try to be there with them. The other person will notice. You will fail and that is ok. Just come back to your body again, and again.

2. Emotional Mastery. Dating will put you on rollercoaster of emotions. You are already on it. It's better to go with it instead of fighting against it. Let your emotions run freely through you. Accept them, welcome them, maybe even learn to love them. Let them be.

If you go like "Uh, this girl doesn't like/love me, that makes me so sad. I don't like being sad, go away sadness!". The feeling won't listen. Instead it will come back even stronger. Hitting you full head on like "Here! Here! I am sadness, I am here! Look!".  Not good. Let it become your friend and it will come and go easily.

❤️

[Raze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rT-eMAtJyE

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Edited June 23, 2022 by Raze

[Illusory Self]

@Leo Gura @universe @Raze

 

Thanks for all the help. Hugely appreciated. Just went on another date, although didn't close, I felt so free because it seemed so enjoyable to me. Obviously there are things I did wrong which need to be analyzed. 

I got into a flow state of talking about anything.