MBTI x Spiral Dynamics

[thisintegrated]

Full Title:  How Do Personalities of the Same MBTI Type Differ Between Stages?

You know I had to do it..  it's the ultimate question.  Is INTJ just another word for "Orange Autist", or is there ..more???

This has never been done before.  No website/resource has ever correlated MBTI with SD.  So I thought it's worth trying.

7 SD types x 16 MBTI types = too much work, so just share any observations you've made.  I'll start.

 

 

Reference:

1. ?   =  Contested MBTI  (if others disagree with your typing, or there's not enough data to come to be sure).
2. *   =  "Really just an educated guess".
3. Feel free to use the template provided at the bottom??
4. Try to use a "descending order" where you can  (e.g. last Orange in row = "least advanced Orange"  or just unsure.)

What to share:

Doesn't have to be just people.  Can be traits, professions, or any differences in personality.  Whatever you think is representative of the stage-specific differences within the same type.

Why?:

Just want anything to help form a mental picture of how the two models interact.  (E.g. Are INTJs always a specific "way", regardless of stage?  Does a Turquoise INTJ still resemble an INTJ?  Are any types/functions correlated with specific stages?) 

 

 

XXXX:

Turquoise:  

Yellow:  

Green:  

Orange:  

Blue:  

Red:  

Purple:  

 

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by thisintegrated

[thisintegrated]

ENTP:

Yellow:  Slavoj Žižek,  Barack Obama

• Great balance between logic, innovation, and feeling.  Like a fusion of ENTP and INTJ.  The quantity of insights of an ENTP, with the infallibility of a healthy INTJ.

Green:  Conan O'Brien,  John McAfee,  Tom Hanks,  Robert Downey Jr.

• "Dreamers", like INFPs, but more accurately.. "immature visionaries".  Too easily drawn to cool ideas about a perfect world.  Though, the ideas are big, with large scale, and are mostly good. 

Orange:  Michio Kaku*,  Neil deGrasse Tyson,  Bill Nye,  Stephen Fry,  Ricky Gervais, Steve Wozniak

• A bit like stereotypical INTJs.  Focused, with no time for nonsense.  Ne ideas mostly revolve around self and grandeur.

Blue:  Ivan Pavlov,  Christopher Columbus*,  Benjamin Franklin*

Red:  Oda Nobunaga

Purple:

• Basically ESTP, as most (if not all) people start as sensors.

Edited June 23, 2022 by thisintegrated

[AtheisticNonduality]

I just hit my head on a board nailed between two fences for no reason, man.

INTJ:

Turquoise: lives in a cave as an isolated shaman who plans their day of hunting and/or gathering in addition to meditating thoroughly and efficiently; they conjure up mystical union with God, and they see the Will of God coursing through every leaf, every petal, and every stem that comes into their everlastingly unifying consciousness, their "light of awareness" or their omni-existence. Or, they live from inside society as a surreptitious mystic spreading their influence throughout the webs of information in the human world, slowly but decisively pulling toward the Turquoise sky the consciousness of humankind. Or they are more open and more noticeable with their truth-giving schemes.

Yellow: highly systematic in thought, sees how the world works like a massive machine made of unbearably complex sub-systems, obsessed with logic both as an abstraction ("pure" logic) and with how it plays out in the world of holarchies, systemic madnesses and successes going in the configuration of humanity pushing from one part of the schematic to another over the interminable, eternal, but always in motion, centuries. They see how things fit in, or don't. They visualize the differing levels of cognitive operation, whether they label them or not. Their knowledge of the system makes them self-aware to an extent, but they risk absorbance in the external system to the detriment of mystical insight.

Green: less "open" than others at this spiral, political thinkers, planning out their effects on the world, carefully observing world events, might intuit that society is moving in certain directions (up or down), divides world into progress vs. regress or assistance vs. hindrance or moral vs. immoral but does not understand all the complexities of the situation, they know how to ask some good questions about the system but can't come up with the best solutions, see themselves as agents in the world for the betterment of society, views their role as a planner for the right side, maybe has fascination with various cultures and is certainly pluralistic in consideration of opinions/facts.

Orange: materialistic, focused on whatever intellectual pursuits they have chosen for themselves (mathematics? physics? engineering? art history? biochemistry? literature? business? scamming people? communism?), overreliant on rationality and with a detrimental lack of feelings, doesn't understand other people's emotions or even their own, the world is an objective landscape: a place full of objects and material things that are manipulatable for my own gratification, lots of wit goes into such behaviors as examining the world or one's model of it to see what outcomes you get.

Blue: the more intellectual/intelligent ones will be religious scholars like rabbi or Christian philosophers, some will be priests, in the old medieval times many would have been in the ecclesiastical ranks as bishops or cardinals or Machiavellian popes that "weaseled" their way to the top, power-desiring scheming kings and queens, in the modern day perhaps some conservative politicians, far-right philosophers, academic overachievers that are more "worker bee" than genuine intellectual, or some father that works out with immense planning the entire life of their daughter, unoriginally thinking smart people: people that are smart in some measurable ways but that don't have any greater materialistic goals (Orange), egalitarian/progressive political beliefs / moral positions (Green), or a deeper view of the world (Yellow).

Red: criminals that assassinate their enemies with high precision, dictators that worked their way to the highest offices in their government by killing and overpowering, those that order large amounts of executions to keep things at bay, all threats to power systematically slaughtered, specifying what's needed to assert dominance: ordering this amount of tanks, deploying troops here and there, eliminating this opposition leader through making them have "a mysterious car wreck" or simply shooting them with efficiency, constructing an organization to rule over.

Purple: medicine man in the tribe, warrior that led to military victories, inventor of various tribal technologies like tools or farming techniques or conflict strategies, records stories of the tribe by memorizing things and passing them down in oral tradition, in modern society probably someone relatively dysfunctional but creative in some ways.

Edited June 22, 2022 by AtheisticNonduality

[thisintegrated]

1 minute ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

I just hit my head on a board nailed between two fences for no reason, man.

At least it was wood?  I once walked fast into a stone ceiling of a castle?‍?

 

But try to keep this thread tidy.  Maybe add something relevant to the topic in an edit??

[Carl-Richard]

36 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

I just hit my head on a board nailed between two fences for no reason, man.

A dude in high school almost knocked himself out running full speed and banging his forehead into a poorly placed horizontal plank in an outdoor bike shed. He suffered a slight cut to his forehead, which weirdly enough I also had at the same time in roughly the same place (I don't remember how I got it). We kinda bonded over that for a second, looking like we just escaped from brain surgery ?

[thisintegrated]

22 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

A dude in high school almost knocked himself out running full speed and banging his forehead into a poorly placed horizontal plank in an outdoor bike shed. He suffered a slight cut to his forehead, which weirdly enough I also had at the same time in roughly the same place (I don't remember how I got it). We kinda bonded over that for a second, looking like we just escaped from brain surgery ?

*ahem*

What MBTI and SD was the "dude"?  and how does he compare to others of the same MBTI at different stages??

 

xNFP:

Green:  Johnny Harris,  Brian Cox,  Russell Brand,  David Attenborough,  @Asayake,  @Loba,  Jim Carrey,  Johnny Depp,  G. R. R. Martin.

Orange:  J. R. R. Tolkien,  Tom Hiddleston,  Shakespeare,  @Carl-Richard

Blue:  Hayao Miyazaki?,  Vincent van Gogh.

Edited June 22, 2022 by thisintegrated

[AtheisticNonduality]

53 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

But try to keep this thread tidy.  Maybe add something relevant to the topic in an edit??

Refresh.

[thisintegrated]

1 hour ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Green: less "open" than others at this spiral, political thinkers, planning out their effects on the world, carefully observing world events, might intuit that society is moving in certain directions (up or down), divides world into progress vs. regress or assistance vs. hindrance or moral vs. immoral but does not understand all the complexities of the situation, they know how to ask some good questions about the system but can't come up with the best solutions, see themselves as agents in the world for the betterment of society, views their role as a planner for the right side, maybe has fascination with various cultures and is certainly pluralistic in consideration of opinions/facts.

??

 

1 hour ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Orange: materialistic, focused on whatever intellectual pursuits they have chosen for themselves (mathematics? physics? engineering? art history? biochemistry? literature? business? scamming people? communism?), overreliant on rationality and with a detrimental lack of feelings, doesn't understand other people's emotions or even their own, the world is an objective landscape: a place full of objects and material things that are manipulatable for my own gratification, lots of wit goes into such behaviors as examining the world or one's model of it to see what outcomes you get.

Very true.  Such a shame 95% of INTJs are at Orange or Blue??

 

Quote

Blue: [..] in the modern day perhaps some conservative politicians, far-right philosophers, academic overachievers that are more "worker bee" than genuine intellectual

Interesting.  You're right.  I used to associate worker bees with sensors, but I guess low-IQ/Blue INTJs would be like this too.

 

Quote

 

Red: criminals that assassinate their enemies with high precision, dictators that worked their way to the highest offices in their government by killing and overpowering, those that order large amounts of executions to keep things at bay, all threats to power systematically slaughtered, specifying what's needed to assert dominance: ordering this amount of tanks, deploying troops here and there, eliminating this opposition leader through making them have "a mysterious car wreck" or simply shooting them with efficiency, constructing an organization to rule over.

 

I'm watching Killing Eve atm.  Literally about Red NTJ assassins?

 

Quote

 

Purple: medicine man in the tribe, warrior that led to military victories, inventor of various tribal technologies like tools or farming techniques or conflict strategies, records stories of the tribe by memorizing things and passing them down in oral tradition, in modern society probably someone relatively dysfunctional but creative in some ways.

 

Ah, of course.  Who else, if not a NiFi, to have complete conviction in gods, herbs, and plans..

 

1 hour ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Turquoise: lives in a cave as an isolated shaman who plans their day of hunting and/or gathering in addition to meditating thoroughly and efficiently; they conjure up mystical union with God, and they see the Will of God coursing through every leaf, every petal, and every stem that comes into their everlastingly unifying consciousness, their "light of awareness" or their omni-existence.

@Carl-Richard will kill you.

 

1 hour ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Turquoise: [..] Or, they live from inside society as a surreptitious mystic spreading their influence throughout the webs of information in the human world, slowly but decisively pulling toward the Turquoise sky the consciousness of humankind. Or they are more open and more noticeable with their truth-giving schemes.

I would've thought INTJs would be by far the most solipsistic type, at Turquoise.  I don't think they'd give a shit about helping anyone else in any way tbh.

 

1 hour ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Yellow: highly systematic in thought, sees how the world works like a massive machine made of unbearably complex sub-systems, obsessed with logic both as an abstraction ("pure" logic) and with how it plays out in the world of holarchies, systemic madnesses and successes going in the configuration of humanity pushing from one part of the schematic to another over the interminable, eternal, but always in motion, centuries. They see how things fit in, or don't. They visualize the differing levels of cognitive operation, whether they label them or not. Their knowledge of the system makes them self-aware to an extent, but they risk absorbance in the external system to the detriment of mystical insight.

This is basically the same as ENTP?

How do you feel perspectives/insights shift at Turquoise?  Turquoise includes all this, but realizes the limitations of all the intellectual work, and focuses a lot more on "being" rather than.. anything else, ime.  

[AtheisticNonduality]

20 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

I would've thought INTJs would be by far the most solipsistic type, at Turquoise.  I don't think they'd give a shit about helping anyone else in any way tbh.

Maybe, but the Te activates one to ant to mould the environment, in a way.

Quote

This is basically the same as ENTP?

How do you feel perspectives/insights shift at Turquoise?  Turquoise includes all this, but realizes the limitations of all the intellectual work, and focuses a lot more on "being" rather than.. anything else, ime.  

You might be the intellect, yet there's possibility of being whatever's found to be transcendent in one's life, or way above one's life entirely in the realm mystically where God lies within Nothingness-Everythingness.

[AtheisticNonduality]

@thisintegrated @Carl-Richard @AtheisticNonduality The Holy Trinity of this forum.

[thisintegrated]

18 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

@thisintegrated @Carl-Richard @AtheisticNonduality The Holy Trinity of this forum.

I feel bad for Leo??

[AtheisticNonduality]

@Hydreigon360 Marilyn Manson is Orange/Green with some Red emotional issues, though I'd prefer some of the earlier albums like Antichrist Superstar if I want something emotionally unhinged or Mechanical Animals if I want something softer. Saying the word n@#@#@! is Stage Slavemaster RACISM!

Okay, I'm sorry, I see your philosophy is pretty anti-structure. You don't like organizing reality into a hierarchy of directions or a list of labels for everything (up is down, left is right, petty politics is misguided, etc.) and prefer a transcendental movement. But the issue is that the things referred to by Spiral Dynamics actually exist with the traits they're modeled as having, even if the specific names like "Blue" or "Green" are off-putting (maybe because color-coding seems childlike).

[AtheisticNonduality]

7 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

I feel bad for Leo??

Who?

[Carl-Richard]

I'm starting to think more and more that the saying "once you get the message, hang up the phone" applies to these kinds of models. Like, let them inform your general understanding of reality, but don't ruminate on them. But that is just me being FiTe I guess 

[something_else]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

But that is just me being FiTe I guess

No no, it's definitely because you're a Cancer ♋

[Loba]

I agree.  I can see its limits in that it drags you back down into another way of creating partitions between people instead of trying to see through their eyes with different senses you don't normally use.

[Zeroguy]

20 hours ago, Loba said:

I agree.  I can see its limits in that it drags you back down into another way of creating partitions between people instead of trying to see through their eyes with different senses you don't normally use.

Because you are INFP you have ability to deeply feel people.All I know is to yell at them.

[Nilsi]

On 22.6.2022 at 2:32 AM, AtheisticNonduality said:

I just hit my head on a board nailed between two fences for no reason, man.

INTJ:

Turquoise: lives in a cave as an isolated shaman who plans their day of hunting and/or gathering in addition to meditating thoroughly and efficiently; they conjure up mystical union with God, and they see the Will of God coursing through every leaf, every petal, and every stem that comes into their everlastingly unifying consciousness, their "light of awareness" or their omni-existence. Or, they live from inside society as a surreptitious mystic spreading their influence throughout the webs of information in the human world, slowly but decisively pulling toward the Turquoise sky the consciousness of humankind. Or they are more open and more noticeable with their truth-giving schemes.

 

I would say Daniel Schmachtenberger is a good example of a turquoise INTJ.

[Carl-Richard]

16 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

I would say Daniel Schmachtenberger is a good example of a turquoise INTJ.

Yeah holy shit the Te on that dude.

[Oeaohoo]

On 22/06/2022 at 2:12 AM, thisintegrated said:

Green: G. R. R. Martin

Orange:  J. R. R. Tolkien, Shakespeare.

You put Martin at Green but Tolkien at Orange? Game of Thrones - or, A Song of Ice and Fire… - was an absolute encapsulation of Stage Orange. Tolkien, on the other hand, was much more Blue than Orange. After all, the world that he created was largely a revival of pre-Christian mythology portrayed through the lens of his Roman Catholic faith, drawing from texts like the Finnish Kalevala and the Nordic Eddas.

I recently described Shakespeare elsewhere on here: I would say that Shakespeare is early Orange, with a lot of Blue (inspiration from late medieval literature and even pagan morality) hanging over, and some anticipations of Green (love of perspective, fetishism of human relationships, relativism).