Why does life suck ?and how to overcome suffering? (According to Buddhism)

[Someone here]

14 hours ago, Razard86 said:

Ok....that's a lot to read. I didn't mean to put your fingers to work with so much text. I apologize if I came off critical. 

Also...just a suggestion....who cares what Buddhism says... what do YOU say. I care about YOUR perspective, Buddha is Buddha

and you are YOU. lol. 

No need to apologise  .I appreciate everyone's perspectives .and your post made me think deeply and grow. Thank you ?. 

BTW surely the Buddha knows better than me . Who am I to compare myself with him ?

[hyruga]

https://blog.supplysideliberal.com/post/86075953200/noah-smith-buddha-was-wrong-about-desire

Elimination of all desires not possible unless you are enlightened.

[Someone here]

29 minutes ago, hyruga said:

https://blog.supplysideliberal.com/post/86075953200/noah-smith-buddha-was-wrong-about-desire

Elimination of all desires not possible unless you are enlightened.

It's the other way around.  By dropping desire you become enlightened. 

Third Noble Truth, the truth of the end of suffering, has dual meaning, suggesting either the end of suffering in this life, on earth, or in the spiritual life, through achieving Nirvana. When one has achieved Nirvana, which is a transcendent state free from suffering and our worldly cycle of birth and rebirth, spiritual enlightenment has been reached

[flowboy]

Life is suffering, yes, but trying to overcome your suffering is both your divine purpose and a futile mistake.

If life is suffering, overcoming suffering is overcoming aliveness.

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, flowboy said:

Life is suffering, yes, but trying to overcome your suffering is both your divine purpose and a futile mistake.

If life is suffering, overcoming suffering is overcoming aliveness.

You are the creator of your suffering. This understanding will help you dissolve suffering. An unhappy person in heaven will convert even heaven into hell.ahappy person can convert hell into heaven. So, change is not required anywhere except within you. If you have an unhappy mind, even if you are in heaven, you will ‘stink’. So, to overcome suffering, you have to understand that your unhappy mind is the cause.

[flowboy]

@Someone here  You think that suffering has to be overcome. I think that's a mistake rooted in suffering

[GreenWoods]

20 minutes ago, Someone here said:

. An unhappy person in heaven will convert even heaven into hell.ahappy person can convert hell into heaven. So, change is not required anywhere except within you. If you have an unhappy mind, even if you are in heaven, you will ‘stink’. 

That is an imperfect version of heaven.

In a real heaven you don't suffer regardless of how messed up ur mind is when you get there. 

Some possibilities how that might be possible:

• The heaven might instantly magically purify your mind such that it creates no suffering 
• the inherent nature of human psycholgy as well as laws of logic could be bent such that even a messed up mind creates no suffering but only bliss.

 

Internal change is not required if the external change is strong enough. 

Edited June 24, 2022 by GreenWoods

[Someone here]

21 minutes ago, flowboy said:

@Someone here  You think that suffering has to be overcome. I think that's a mistake rooted in suffering

So is your point that trying to overcome suffering is resistance to suffering and it perpetuates suffering?  Because I don't disagree in that point . The overcome I'm talking about is not resistance. But acceptance. 

When something goes wrong, most people resist it.

“This shouldn’t be happening!” Goes the inner dialogue.

The resistance comes from a good place..a wish for things to be going “right,” and for you to be okay.

But it’s not actually doing you any good. Because resistance is the main thing that causes us to suffer when we feel pain.

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, GreenWoods said:

That is an imperfect version of heaven.

In a real heaven you don't suffer regardless of how messed up ur mind is when you get there. 

Some possibilities how that might be possible:

• The heaven might instantly magically purify your mind such that it creates no suffering 
• the inherent nature of human psycholgy as well as laws of logic could be bent such that even a messed up mind creates no suffering but only bliss.

 

Internal change is not required if the external change is strong enough. 

That's just simply not possible.  Happiness and suffering are conditions of your mind . Your interior state of being. Your resistance to what's happening vs your acceptance and embrace of it . It doesn't depend on external conditions . Don't go thinking that billionaires and people who eat the best food and bang hot chicks everyday are happy ..they have everything. And the paradoxical counterintuitive thing is that when  you have everything you wish for then you will feel like you have nothing.  You will feel empty and listless and sad . Because happiness (true happiness) doesn't come from anywhere other than within you. 

"the Kingdom of heaven is within you"-Jesus. 

[flowboy]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

So is your point that trying to overcome suffering is resistance to suffering and it perpetuates suffering?  Because I don't disagree in that point . The overcome I'm talking about is not resistance. But acceptance. 

Rather my point is that too much suffering can lead people to believe that they must find a way out of suffering, that suffering is bad and it is a problem that must be solved, which I think is an understandable misconception.

People who experience tolerable levels of suffering tend to appreciate and learn from it.

People who suffer more than they can tolerate, can get fixated on 'eliminating suffering' which is an overcorrection, a swing too far in the other direction.

[Someone here]

49 minutes ago, flowboy said:

Rather my point is that too much suffering can lead people to believe that they must find a way out of suffering, that suffering is bad and it is a problem that must be solved, which I think is an understandable misconception.

People who experience tolerable levels of suffering tend to appreciate and learn from it.

People who suffer more than they can tolerate, can get fixated on 'eliminating suffering' which is an overcorrection, a swing too far in the other direction.

Unfortunately, we can’t avoid it, it is all part of the great big learning curve we call Life!

We experience it to learn our lessons.

There is a saying Enjoy what we can - Endure what we must !

So embrace it without wallowing in it , and think about what the experience has taught you.

[cjoseph90]

good post! enjoyed reading it, you made some valid points. [ractical wisdom. yes surrender is the key

[Someone here]

8 hours ago, cjoseph90 said:

good post! enjoyed reading it, you made some valid points. [ractical wisdom. yes surrender is the key

Thanks .glad you found it helpful 

[GreenWoods]

21 hours ago, Someone here said:

  Happiness and suffering are conditions of your mind . Your interior state of being. Your resistance to what's happening vs your acceptance and embrace of it . It doesn't depend on external conditions .

If someone takes heroin and tries to resist the bliss, he still feels bliss.

If someone gets tortured brutally and tries to accept it he still suffers.

Suffering and bliss are not merely a result of the mind. Both the mental and the environmental state are factors. If the environmental factor is too strong, you have no chance overcoming it with your mind.

21 hours ago, Someone here said:

 . Don't go thinking that billionaires and people who eat the best food and bang hot chicks everyday are happy ..they have everything. And the paradoxical counterintuitive thing is that when  you have everything you wish for then you will feel like you have nothing.  You will feel empty and listless and sad . Because happiness (true happiness) doesn't come from anywhere other than within you. 

"the Kingdom of heaven is within you"-Jesus. 

I disagree. 

The reason most people who seem to have everything aren't happy is because they DON'T have everything. They have a lot, but still are far from a perfect heavenly life. So of course they suffer. 

They could probably still list a 100 things every day that could be better, if they micro-analyse their day.

 

Outside happiness doesn't replace inside happiness.

Likewise, inside happiness doesn't replace outside happiness. 

Just take both.

21 hours ago, Someone here said:

 . Because happiness (true happiness) doesn't come from anywhere other than within you. 

I wouldn't distinguish between true vs not true happiness.

Instead between higher conscious and higher quality vs lower conscious and lower quality happiness. 

 

And that is relative. There could be aliens who are wired differently, and for them internal spiritual happiness and nondual states of consciousness are objectively low quality and bad. And video gaming gives them high quality, permanent, soul fulfilling happiness. 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, GreenWoods said:

If someone takes heroin and tries to resist the bliss, he still feels bliss.

If someone gets tortured brutally and tries to accept it he still suffers.

Suffering and bliss are not merely a result of the mind. Both the mental and the environmental state are factors. If the environmental factor is too strong, you have no chance overcoming it with your mind.

I disagree. 

The reason most people who seem to have everything aren't happy is because they DON'T have everything. They have a lot, but still are far from a perfect heavenly life. So of course they suffer. 

They could probably still list a 100 things every day that could be better, if they micro-analyse their day.

 

Outside happiness doesn't replace inside happiness.

Likewise, inside happiness doesn't replace outside happiness. 

Just take both.

I wouldn't distinguish between true vs not true happiness.

Instead between higher conscious and higher quality vs lower conscious and lower quality happiness. 

 

And that is relative. There could be aliens who are wired differently, and for them internal spiritual happiness and nondual states of consciousness are objectively low quality and bad. And video gaming gives them high quality, permanent, soul fulfilling happiness. 

 

External factors can trigger you to feel happiness (peace, contentment, joy), but the same factors can trigger someone else to feel sadness. Equanimity regardless of external factors ( deemed good or deemed bad ) is key.

The way we see life is key; the lens through which we judge the experiences of life is the single most important determining factor in our level of daily happiness.

When we cultivate the happiness habit, consciously making being happy (peaceful, contented, joyful) a normal state of mind, we can appreciate when things happen as we wish.

Just as importantly, we also can be at peace when external situations are not to our liking, because we nurture happiness within that we can visit whenever we choose.

Our experience of life becomes very light when we understand we cannot control all of what happens in our lives, but we can control how we react to what happens.

If We do not hang our level of happiness on what goes on outside of us, but we stay at peace feeling contentment and happiness regardless of outside factors..Ultimately we realize that happiness is our natural state of being, and at any moment we can choose to begin to live our happily ever after.

[GreenWoods]

45 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 

External factors can trigger you to feel happiness (peace, contentment, joy), but the same factors can trigger someone else to feel sadness. 

Factors for external happiness are relative. But so are factors for internal happiness. 

Some aliens might be wired in a way to get depressed from equanimity and being accepting, and get blissed out from a chotic reactionary judgemental mind.

Some people can get a panic attack if they get into no-mind or no-self or Infinite love consciousness. 

50 minutes ago, Someone here said:

. Equanimity regardless of external factors ( deemed good or deemed bad ) is key.

But that is impossible (at least within our local reality).

Environmental circumstances always play a role.

As long as your internal happiness (for example due to acceptance skills) is greater than external pain, you're happy.

The monk sitting blissed out in a cave is not unconditionally happy. One of the conditions is to sit in a cave and not be tortured. 

53 minutes ago, Someone here said:

.The way we see life is key; the lens through which we judge the experiences of life is the single most important determining factor in our level of daily happiness.

Within a very narrow set of parameters yes.

If you have spoiled westerners who have a comfortable life and still are depressed, then yes, the lense they see life through is significant. 

The lens always plays a role, but that lense doesn't do much for children starving in Africa, or people who have been tortured. Because the intensity of these external factors is just far higher as that the average person could compensate for that through mind skills.

Even Buddha would break if you turn up the pain of torture high enough.

57 minutes ago, Someone here said:

When we cultivate the happiness habit, consciously making being happy (peaceful, contented, joyful) a normal state of mind, we can appreciate when things happen as we wish.

Just as importantly, we also can be at peace when external situations are not to our liking, because we nurture happiness within that we can visit whenever we choose.

Our experience of life becomes very light when we understand we cannot control all of what happens in our lives, but we can control how we react to what happens.

If We do not hang our level of happiness on what goes on outside of us, but we stay at peace feeling contentment and happiness regardless of outside factors..Ultimately we realize that happiness is our natural state of being, and at any moment we can choose to begin to live our happily ever after.

Yes but this is only partial. 

The outside is important too.

But yeah, for many westerners the outside is already relatively good. Relative to the outside, the inside is doing poorly. So if they want to increase happiness they need to primarily adress the inside and follow your advice.  

[Someone here]

@GreenWoods look ...In general happiness depends upon the way you perceive life

External factors may make your day, and make you smile, but if you are not happy, or are sad in the first place, they will not make you happy.

Happiness is a decision. a choice, and it comes from within, not from without.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Someone here

[GreenWoods]

8 minutes ago, Someone here said:

External factors may make your day, and make you smile, but if you are not happy, or are sad in the first place, they will not make you happy.

And likewise, you can have everything it takes to be happy from an internal spiritual perspective. But if the outside is bad enough, then that internal stuff won't make you happy.

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Happiness is a decision. a choice, and it comes from within, not from without.

Happiness depends on both the within and without. 

[Someone here]

@GreenWoods

3 hours ago, GreenWoods said:

And likewise, you can have everything it takes to be happy from an internal spiritual perspective. But if the outside is bad enough, then that internal stuff won't make you happy.

Happiness depends on both the within and without. 

No. Happiness solely depends on how we see things, since everything we see and sense is through our subjective perception of reality. Thus if we change our perception, viewpoint in the right way, we can change how we see, experience reality around us.

On the other hand in order to change our inherently selfish, egoistic and hateful nature and perception ..that gives us the picture, movie of this hostile, dark, self-destructive world ..we need external factors, the proper “laboratory conditions”: the perfect, purposeful environment. It sucks. 

[GreenWoods]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

@GreenWoods

No. Happiness solely depends on how we see things, since everything we see and sense is through our subjective perception of reality. Thus if we change our perception, viewpoint in the right way, we can change how we see, experience reality around us.

On the other hand in order to change our inherently selfish, egoistic and hateful nature and perception ..that gives us the picture, movie of this hostile, dark, self-destructive world ..we need external factors, the proper “laboratory conditions”: the perfect, purposeful environment. It sucks. 

You can look from that perspective and say that the internal is the key to happiness.

When the internal is strong enough, the external doesn't matter. But in order to make the internal strong in the first place, and to maintain it strong, the external does matter.

 

And as I've already said, you can also see it from the opposite perspective:

That the external is key.

When the external is strong enough, the internal doesn't matter. A strong enough external can cause bliss regardless of your bad internal state (judgements, perspectives, biases, neurosis).

For example by taking heroin. 

Now you can say that the bliss from an enlightened mind is better than the bliss from heroin. But:

• that judgment is relative 
• that difference in quality of bliss depends on the rules of the current reality/dream. In a different reality, it might be switched. In such a reality, people might get the enlightened bliss from taking heroin, and get the shallow bliss from being a Buddha. But even within our reality it can be considered relative. I guess most people would consider the bliss from relationships to be better and higher quality than the bliss from a still and accepting mind)

(I use taking heroin as an example to better illustrate. But in the category of "external" also belong things most people consider valuable and fulfilling, like romantic relationships, sex, friends, traveling...)

 

I'm not saying either internal or external is key. I'm saying both are key. And depending on one's specific situation one is more important to focus on.

Edited June 25, 2022 by GreenWoods