falling for a friend Advise

[Vercingetorix]

I have a female friend. We've started to get close and meet more often.
I start to fall for her.

It's a bit complicated:
* she's the best friend of my ex and in the past my ex was jealous about me and her being close.
* she is in love with another guy that don't really return the favor.
* In the past I confessed that I like her and she said she is not into me..

On the other side:
we have very fun, open and deep conversations - It feels as if we can talk for hours.
She initiate a lot of it and invite me to do things together
We touch each other a lot and hug each other for long times

some worrying signs:
 * Part of it is about her asking for favors helping her with stuff

* I keep a secret - Most of the time I feel in the moment and flowing but sometimes when I think that I want to touch her intimately or kiss her or say how I feel I suppress it in the fear that she will reject me / End my hopes that there is a chance for more / I will lose her friendship

* I start to notice needy thoughts and start to think about her more often and I kind of stopped to have the motivation for practicing pickup     

She feels special to me because it seems that it's very hard to find someone like her:  she is quite spiritual and evolved , super kind and gentle, has a compassion evoking life story. and I find her vibe and energy attracting and resonating with me.
Theoretically I'm happy to just be her friend. I love her even if she is not into me. But I see that practically it's hard for me to be myself and enjoy and feel free when there is this tension. maybe I need to find a way to express it in a non serious way, make fun of it?

My Dilemma:
should I "game" her, try to make her attracted to me? It feels a really needy and desperate thing to do.
Should I tell her honestly what I feel for her?
Should I not overthink it and just be spontaneous and in the moment If I feel that I want to hug her or touch her to tell her an ask if she wants it too?

My fear is that she will say I don't feel any attraction for you and don't want anything more that friendly touch. It will be a bit hard for me to hear. 
And if she is really not into me does this relationship has a chance or is it doomed?




 

  

[Raze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtWU-9MW_tg

 

try the “friend zone to end zone” video here

http://davidtianphd.com/masterclass-content/

 

[Vercingetorix]

@Raze Thanks. I watched the first video and it's good. I'll watch the second. 

[SamC]

9 hours ago, Vercingetorix said:

I have a female friend. We've started to get close and meet more often.
I start to fall for her.

It's a bit complicated:
* she's the best friend of my ex and in the past my ex was jealous about me and her being close.
* she is in love with another guy that don't really return the favor.
* In the past I confessed that I like her and she said she is not into me..

On the other side:
we have very fun, open and deep conversations - It feels as if we can talk for hours.
She initiate a lot of it and invite me to do things together
We touch each other a lot and hug each other for long times

some worrying signs:
 * Part of it is about her asking for favors helping her with stuff

* I keep a secret - Most of the time I feel in the moment and flowing but sometimes when I think that I want to touch her intimately or kiss her or say how I feel I suppress it in the fear that she will reject me / End my hopes that there is a chance for more / I will lose her friendship

* I start to notice needy thoughts and start to think about her more often and I kind of stopped to have the motivation for practicing pickup     

She feels special to me because it seems that it's very hard to find someone like her:  she is quite spiritual and evolved , super kind and gentle, has a compassion evoking life story. and I find her vibe and energy attracting and resonating with me.
Theoretically I'm happy to just be her friend. I love her even if she is not into me. But I see that practically it's hard for me to be myself and enjoy and feel free when there is this tension. maybe I need to find a way to express it in a non serious way, make fun of it?

My Dilemma:
should I "game" her, try to make her attracted to me? It feels a really needy and desperate thing to do.
Should I tell her honestly what I feel for her?
Should I not overthink it and just be spontaneous and in the moment If I feel that I want to hug her or touch her to tell her an ask if she wants it too?

My fear is that she will say I don't feel any attraction for you and don't want anything more that friendly touch. It will be a bit hard for me to hear. 
And if she is really not into me does this relationship has a chance or is it doomed?




 

  




 

The right call is to let her go. It's over. Don't chase your own shadow, figure out the lesson and let her be free.

[something_else]

10 hours ago, Vercingetorix said:

should I "game" her, try to make her attracted to me? It feels a really needy and desperate thing to do.
Should I tell her honestly what I feel for her?
Should I not overthink it and just be spontaneous and in the moment If I feel that I want to hug her or touch her to tell her an ask if she wants it too?

No for all of these, girl's attraction very rarely changes over time. If a girl isn't attracted to you there's little you can do to change that.

Unfortunately your best bet is to move on. Think of how many other girls there are out there! There are probably 1000 other girls you'd be attracted to within walking distance of you right now.

Don't waste your time on a girl who won't reciprocate. I'd keep her as a friend if you think you can handle that, having female friends is good

[Razard86]

5 hours ago, SamC said:

The right call is to let her go. It's over. Don't chase your own shadow, figure out the lesson and let her be free.

I agree let her go. If she is for you it will eventually happen.

[Average Investor]

Go find a new source for meeting women. Go out and start getting some regular dates. These kind of relationships usually go no where. It seems kind of unhealthy for both of you.

In the future you need to make it very clear of your attraction for someone. Get rejected fast and move on. You don't want to be playing these kind of games for months or years. You could have meet a lot of great women in this time. 

[Vercingetorix]

@SamC She is free. I didn't stop pursuing other women. At the same time I still enjoy seeing her and there is a chance something will develop out of it.

@something_else I never stopped pursuing other women for her. Our meetings and connection rose spontaneously. I still continue. what happened in the last few days is that I started to "develop feelings" for her or saw that I start to become needy. Today I practiced some pick up and saw the abundance of girls and it helped me stop feeling that I need her. Now it's clear for me what to do.
@Razard86 Mentally I agreed to let her go and I don't feel needy towards her anymore, which counter Intuitively will make me more attractive for her I guess, But most Importantly will allow me to feel free around her.

@Average Investor Usually I'm direct about my intention. The relationship I have with her wasn't planned.


Thanks Guys, I think I managed to get out of the rut and rediscover my own zest for life independent of her  after a few days That I felt That I really  need her in my life.

[PepperBlossoms]

hmmm I guess I would be straight up with her and say, I know in the past you said you weren't interested in me but I am finding myself falling for you and wanted to let you know that and see how you respond.

When she responds with a, yes I am falling for you too, or no I don't like you like that, you can then decide to stay or move on.

The holding on to the hope of it working out has been quite maddening for me in the past.

[Leo Gura]

On 6/20/2022 at 4:19 PM, Vercingetorix said:

My fear is that she will say I don't feel any attraction for you

But she already told you that.

If she was attracted to you she would obviously want you to make some moves. She would even ask for it. But she's obviously doing the opposite. She's made you her gay friend.

You're failing in establishing man-woman frame with some sexual threat. For a girl to get attracted to you, you gotta present a sexual threat to her. She will feel that if she's ever gets alone in a room with you, you will undress her. This frame needs to be set immediately upon interacting with a girl.

Sounds like you're being too much of a nice guy and tucking your dick between your legs. This is a lesson for you to learn to be more of a man. FYI, when a man sees a girl he likes, he doesn't play games. He makes moves, he takes her. He doesn't hesitate or bides his time to befriend her. And any time she's around him he acts towards her with sexual charge. There is no option of being friends without sex.

A man cannot have girls as just friends unless he is already sleeping with other girls.

If you want to keep this girl strictly as your friend then you gotta go find yourself a girl who you're sleeping with elsewhere.

[Karmadhi]

@Leo Gura

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

But she already told you that.

If she was attracted to you she would obviously want you to make some moves. She would even ask for it. But she's obviously doing the opposite. She's made you her gay friend.

You're failing in establishing man-woman frame with some sexual threat. For a girl to get attracted to you, you gotta present a sexual threat to her. She will feel that if she's ever gets alone in a room with you, you will undress her. This frame needs to be set immediately upon interacting with a girl.

Sounds like you're being too much of a nice guy and tucking your dick between your legs. This is a lesson for you to learn to be more of a man. FYI, when a man sees a girl he likes, he doesn't play games. He makes moves, he takes her. He doesn't hesitate or bides his time to befriend her. And any time she's around him he acts towards her with sexual charge. There is no option of being friends without sex.

You are completly right however i have noticed with people i know that often, especially in school or friend circles it happens that two people might start dating after some time of knowing each other. The girl starts liking the guy out of the blue after some time and they end up together.

How does this happen? It has always baffled me because it never ever has happened to me and made me feel quite bad about myself and affected my self-esteem badly. Like especially in western countries it is not uncommon for people that know each other for some time to hook up or just start dating.

I am always talking here about social circle or common environements kind of stuff which is where i hear the stories from.

How does this happen?

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

@Leo Gura

You are completly right however i have noticed with people i know that often, especially in school or friend circles it happens that two people might start dating after some time of knowing each other. The girl starts liking the guy out of the blue after some time and they end up together.

How does this happen? It has always baffled me because it never ever has happened to me and made me feel quite bad about myself and affected my self-esteem badly. Like especially in western countries it is not uncommon for people that know each other for some time to hook up or just start dating.

I am always talking here about social circle or common environements kind of stuff which is where i hear the stories from.

How does this happen?

It can happen by accident but you don't wanna rely on that.

In social circle you can afford to be more friendly and things might then develop. But you'll be risking the friendzone there.

[Sine]

You should not game her, you should get really focused on making your life an attractive life to be part of, then she (and every other girl) will want to be with you. 

Also maybe try one of these courses/workshops https://www.jakewoodard.com/

<3

 

[Karmadhi]

56 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In social circle you can afford to be more friendly and things might then develop. But you'll be risking the friendzone there.

Do you know what attraction triggers you need to trigger on females in social circle for that NOT to happen (friendzone), when you re not trying to actively hit on her.

I know guys that just act normal with girls without hitting on them or anything like that (maybe some light flirting) and girls fall for them (not all but does happen SOMETIMES).  I would like to be like that. Normally when i act "normal" with a girl i just get friendzoned hard and it is bit frustrating. The only times i did not get friendzoned and the girl was somewhat or properly intersted, honestly i could not tell what i did different, in my mind i acted the same but apparently something was different (happened like 3 times max though so barely). I know guys though that it happens quite more often.

This is a supplement to going out and actively approaching and meeting girls ofc, i am not saying you should rely on this or anything, i just see it as a passive income especially because i tend to meet a lot of hot girls from social circle stuff so feels like a lot of wasted chances. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Karmadhi

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But she already told you that.

If she was attracted to you she would obviously want you to make some moves. She would even ask for it. But she's obviously doing the opposite. She's made you her gay friend.

You're failing in establishing man-woman frame with some sexual threat. For a girl to get attracted to you, you gotta present a sexual threat to her. She will feel that if she's ever gets alone in a room with you, you will undress her. This frame needs to be set immediately upon interacting with a girl.

Sounds like you're being too much of a nice guy and tucking your dick between your legs. This is a lesson for you to learn to be more of a man. FYI, when a man sees a girl he likes, he doesn't play games. He makes moves, he takes her. He doesn't hesitate or bides his time to befriend her. And any time she's around him he acts towards her with sexual charge. There is no option of being friends without sex.

A man cannot have girls as just friends unless he is already sleeping with other girls.

If you want to keep this girl strictly as your friend then you gotta go find yourself a girl who you're sleeping with elsewhere.

100 percent correct. I cannot agree more with this post if I could. Leo DO A VIDEO ON THIS!! PLEASE!!! LOL!!!

This entire post is the issue nice guys have. Great post!! It couldn't have been said any better!! It was also a lesson I had to learn the hard way!!!

[Razard86]

On 6/20/2022 at 7:19 PM, Vercingetorix said:

I have a female friend. We've started to get close and meet more often.
I start to fall for her.

It's a bit complicated:
* she's the best friend of my ex and in the past my ex was jealous about me and her being close.
* she is in love with another guy that don't really return the favor.
* In the past I confessed that I like her and she said she is not into me..

On the other side:
we have very fun, open and deep conversations - It feels as if we can talk for hours.
She initiate a lot of it and invite me to do things together
We touch each other a lot and hug each other for long times

some worrying signs:
 * Part of it is about her asking for favors helping her with stuff

* I keep a secret - Most of the time I feel in the moment and flowing but sometimes when I think that I want to touch her intimately or kiss her or say how I feel I suppress it in the fear that she will reject me / End my hopes that there is a chance for more / I will lose her friendship

* I start to notice needy thoughts and start to think about her more often and I kind of stopped to have the motivation for practicing pickup     

She feels special to me because it seems that it's very hard to find someone like her:  she is quite spiritual and evolved , super kind and gentle, has a compassion evoking life story. and I find her vibe and energy attracting and resonating with me.
Theoretically I'm happy to just be her friend. I love her even if she is not into me. But I see that practically it's hard for me to be myself and enjoy and feel free when there is this tension. maybe I need to find a way to express it in a non serious way, make fun of it?

My Dilemma:
should I "game" her, try to make her attracted to me? It feels a really needy and desperate thing to do.
Should I tell her honestly what I feel for her?
Should I not overthink it and just be spontaneous and in the moment If I feel that I want to hug her or touch her to tell her an ask if she wants it too?

My fear is that she will say I don't feel any attraction for you and don't want anything more that friendly touch. It will be a bit hard for me to hear. 
And if she is really not into me does this relationship has a chance or is it doomed?




 

  




 

Read this and ask yourself which category you are in. BE BRUTALLY HONEST. Otherwise you will waste your time and experience deep pain. Deep pain however maybe what you need at this juncture but that will be something you decide for yourself.

https://www.romwills.com/podcasts/how-women-really-see-men

[Vercingetorix]

@PepperBlossoms Yes I think I will share with her. I Think I will be really happy either way. It matter less what she respond but more that I feel free to share what's on my mind in the relationship.

@Leo Gura When she told me she is not into me, It was in front my (at the time) girlfriend so I'm not 100% sure. 

Why can't attraction or romantic love be based on deep intimacy, care and vulnerability ? I think it's rare but still possible. I agree that It's  not the way to create direct sexual attraction - but it can still stir a lot of emotions. Maybe my strategy is to make her fall in love me first, and that will lead automatically to physical attraction.
Also I agree that I'm playing the nice guy card here but I enjoy it, I really like her as a person and a friend. 

@Sine Thanks  I pretty much like my life as they are but I guess that Focusing and expanding my business and earning more money from it will make me more attractive.

@Razard86 Probably Brother.

[RMQualtrough]

Just get a few drinks together and sleep with her... That's it...

[flowboy]

On 23/06/2022 at 0:40 AM, Vercingetorix said:

Why can't attraction or romantic love be based on deep intimacy, care and vulnerability ?

Imagine an obese girl who doesn't shower or shave, smells bad and wears men's clothes with holes in them, cheeto crumbs on her chin, long hairs growing out of her nose, saying that to her friend whilst pining over YOU.

That's you.

You're being that girl right now.

What would you say to her?

How about before expecting guys to fall in love with you and want deep intimacy with you, cleaning yourself up and acting like a woman?

That's right.

You're not acting like a man (expressing your desire unapologetically), therefore to her you're just as attractive as the cheeto girl.

Does being nice and caring really make a difference then, if you're not a man to her?

 

I know, your nice guy behavior is based on a fear that is really hard to overcome, and you're looking for alternate ways to still get what you want.

I was the same. Or should I say, I still do that at times if I don't catch myself. But I have taught to express my desires honestly, whether I'm scared or not. And it works.

Life is beautifully designed in that in order to get what you want the most, you have to face your worst fear.

Go do it.

[Vercingetorix]

@flowboy nice metaphor. Strangely, it did  happen to me in the past that I fell in love with a girl I wasn't too much attracted to physically  

I agree that it's super unattractive to hide my desire and feelings from her. And I saw myself doing it with her to a degree. (hence I opened the topic) .
I guess the only solution is to be willing to lose her friendship?  I'm going to express my desire unapologetically otherwise I know I won't enjoy meeting her. If she doesn't  feel the same it's still ok, Probably we will remain friends.
I think I confuse expressing my desire unapologetically with neediness. I'm afraid to express it because I'm afraid I will be seen as needy? That's interesting.


@RMQualtrough I like this plan  It might work actually