Transcendental Meditation

[Markus]

I'm interested in hearing what you guys'n'gals think or know about TM (any personal experiences etc.)

So this morning I happen to be on a little research tour about exploring some different forms of meditation than I've already tried or heard about. I did 5 minutes of research about TM and my first impression is - isn't it just a bs marketing scheme?

The technique is described as simple and effortless. You close your eyes, get comfortable and focus on a mantra for 20 minutes. But wait a minute, you need a qualified instructor to give you your personal mantra, as well as give you a 3-hour course, to make sure you're doing it right and using the right mantra. And to hear about all the supposed benefits.

A simple mantra meditation that anyone could learn on their own + marketing hype and complication making things sound complicated = TM?

 

Edited February 12, 2016 by Markus

[zenny]

hey mate:).  Once, I was going through certain notes of ramana maharshi, from there, I learnt that certain meditation practices involves usage of words, music, sex, etc, because, all these ,when done in the right way, will affect your body in certain regions and might even silence your mind. But, Understand that some practices will calm your mind only on surface level, it won't take you to the roots of the whole thing. Try vipassana or zazen, etc. 

[Neo]

Someone said to me on this message board "You will find a way" which is very reassuring. There again, talk if this technique and that technique and which is best, this works or this doesn't, I find has the opposite affect and makes it sound complicated and a bit "hit and miss."

[Markus]

I believe I have a set of pretty good techniques that I use in my practice. This thread isn't about me seeking what to use, but rather of mapping the different meditation techniques that exist in the world. 

I looked briefly into TM, formed an opinion about it and am now welcoming second opinions from anyone who's had some kind of experience with either TM or mantra meditation in general.

[zenny]

@Neo hey Neo. Hi. Yes, it can be confusing when you hear many talk about many different techniques. When it comes down to techniques, I feel that it is important to know from whom you are learning all these techniques and what 's the intention of the person teaching you the technique, and I feel that its better to google and check out the reviews on those techniques. For example, vipassana in india, is conducted for free, and even the food and accommodation are for free and it solely runs on charity and they assure you the results within weeks of sincere practice. So, by seeing all these, one can say that they are willing to help many and their intention is good. Based on such factors you can choose what to follow and what not to follow. Different techniques work better for different people. So, if one wants to start exploring, it might be better to cross check certain factors, similar to the ones that i have mentioned and see what works better for you. know the intention behind the person teaching you all these and see if the teachings of that person brings the values that you are looking for, within a certain period of time. The journey itself will tell you, if what u have chosen is right, if you feel that something is bringing in more clarity to you, and if you value clarity, follow that and see where it goes. I understand that it can be confusing. starting with some well known practices  can be helpful, so, known to me i can suggest vipassana or zazen. and its important that u learn them from good places. mostly many teach it for free. try to understand why a technique is used in the first place!. mostly, things are used to make one more present to the now. so, practices which involves you to focus on your bodily sensations and breath from moment to moment sounds like something that is relative to anchoring one's attention to present moment. So, practices like zazen or vipassana does that. So, see if the technique being used helps you with your intention too.....there's more. Feel free to start a topic on how to choose a technique and you might get many views:)

[zenny]

@Markus I used to chant " om mani padme hum " long back. I used to feel calm and energized after that.:)

[Markus]

@zenny How would you describe or characterize the difference between the effects of concentration meditation (mantras, focusing on an object) and mindfulness meditation?

[Neo]

@zenny thank you for your reply.

[zenny]

@Markus hello markus:). If being "mindful =conscious or aware of something", then, it means that one is basically trying to focus their attention on something. I can tell you what happens In mindful meditation, so that, you will directly see how it works .in an usual scenario, one practices to bring awareness into their everyday life activities. While eating, while walking, while sleeping, etc. Here, your concentration lies in what is happening in your body. And it is important to remain equanimous to whatever you feel!. By doing so, you learn to deal with life in a calm way, basically one learns to respond well and it doesn't stop here. The sensations that we feel in our body is related to our thoughts too. So, when you are being equanimous(not craving or averting) to a sensation that you feel  , you allow the sensations to come and pass away, and the thought which caused this sensation in your body won't have much say on your actions and thoughts too will come and go .When one practices this on a regular basis, they heal the "emotional body "( the collection of stored emotions ) and this will make one feel relaxed. One's awareness too expands and one can practice on expanding this awareness beyond their body too. It is paradoxical. But, in mindful meditation one uses the natural processes of their body to hold their attention on present moment. For example, some use their natural breath, they focus on how the air enters their nostrils, touches the walls on inner nostrils and leaves the nostrils and one tries to get in touch with the sensations of their body. due to biochemical reactions in cells, there's always one or the other sensations in body. So, one tries to be aware of all this. But, its important not to crave for a sensation to take place or create an aversion towards another type of sensation that you feel , because, craving or averting, will add more momentum to the thought structure, the very thing which we are actually trying to slow down. So, the effect is that, in mindful meditation u can become more aware of what is happening in your body from moment to moment, and this helps you learn more about how your body is and how it reacts to many things . In this way, in mindful meditation use your everyday life activities to practice meditation and u can see the effect from moment to moment based on what you choose, whether you choose to crave or remain equanimous or avert.

[Markus]

@zenny I know all that. Or at least think I do. My ego loves the feeling. I love the feeling.

I should elaborate. The way I would distinguish between concentration and mindfulness is this:

1. Concentration Meditation. You focus on a sensation. You put all your attention on the object of focus and withdraw your attention from anything else. The ultimate goal would be to focus on that sensation so intensely you become it, and only it. So if you focus on the sound of a mantra, you become the mantra.

2. Mindfulness Meditation. You focus on an aspect of experience, be it a sensory category or the perceptions associated with some process (hearing, thoughts, hearing in and out, all inner perceptions, the perceptions of washing the dishes, any vanishing of perceptions you can notice etc.)  The objective here is to make finer and finer distinctions in that aspect of experience. The ultimate goal is to have a complete experience of that aspect of experience. In mindfulness it's not just about concentration (focus on an aspect) but also clarity (more and more distinctions in an aspect) and equanimity, which you talked about:) 

It seems to me that mindfulness is vastly superior. It's definitely more effective for enlightenment, emotional control and lots of other things. Concentration meditation could provide temporary calmness and help with focused activities like reading, listening. 

What I'm wondering is whether there's any extra benefit to doing a bit of concentration meditation next to mindfulness. Right now I feel like concentration meditation is 1/3 while mindfulness meditation is 3/3. 

[zenny]

@Markus wow marcus. I like the way you have distinguished the two.:).....and marcus, don't you think that mindfulness meditation itself will help you to increase your concentration?................

[Markus]

@zenny I absolutely do, hence I said it's 3/3 vs 1/3. That's why I'm wondering whether concentration meditation has any particular benefit that mindfulness doesn't. If there isn't, I don't see why it's practiced, other than out of tradition.

[zenny]

@Markus I heard that when one chants for a longer period of time, they might reach a state, where, they will observe that chanting is happening all by itself and this seeing, might alter their perspective...yes, even i feel that mindfulness meditation covers almost everything!.....and  Markus, practices like tantric sex, seems more tempting to my mind, i wonder man......how do you view tantric sex or tantra? 

Edited February 12, 2016 by zenny

[Markus]

@zenny Anything that could bring pleasure to new heights, plus provide some sort of spiritual benefit, definitely appeals to my ego.

The interesting thing about the term "tantra" is that historically, it doesn't have a sexual meaning at all, as I recently discovered by Listening to Shinzen Young's "The Science of Enlightenment". 

Early Buddhist scriptures were called "Sutra" and somewhat later Buddhist scriptures were called "Tantra". Some Hindu scriptures were also called "Tantra". As Buddhism and Hinduism cross-fertilized, part of their symbolism was indeed sexual union, and sometimes even part of their practice. One branch of Buddhism was really into the idea of bringing every aspect of life onto the path, including dreams and sleep, and also including sex. 

That said, I don't really know anything about Tantric sex, nor sex in general, at least practically not. I'm a virgin (I would much rather opt for the less embarrassing version of "I've never had sex") and haven't done anything sexual or intimate with anyone. Certainly that's a source of embarrassment due to cultural programming, being 18 and all. Considering my current life situation and goals, I'm not obsessed with changing that either. Once I do have a sexual partner, whenever that would happen, I'd certainly be interested in trying some of the "spiritual" sex practices out.

Anyway, I gotta go back to writing my life story in the journaling section, plus gotta meditate today a well. I'd perhaps like to continue this discussion, depending on where it leads, but doing so today would be looking for a distraction from the real work I have to do. Peace out;)

[so here we are]

 Whether you agree with yourself that you’ve found enlightenment or not is just an intellectual experience. True being is realising this doesn’t have to be happening right now but in the simplest sense, it is. It is about taking that essential step back and not just going along anymore, allowing your mind to be everything instead of anything. Realise your attention is every possibility as well as current perception.

Edited February 12, 2016 by so here we are

[Ramu]

I think TM is a bs marketing scheme.  You shouldn't have to pay that much money for a spiritual thing.  Like previous threads here have mentioned a little research or even trying group meditation for awhile will give you the techniques to meditate successfully.  I was going to try TM but after a lot of contemplation I realized it was a scheme.

[Daryn]

I was taught in TM in the early 1990's.  I have been meditating for a while and have since gravitated towards other techniques.

I agree with Ramu that TM has appears to be kind of a scheme.  They seem to like to constantly advertise all the movie stars and celebrities that practice the technique.

I believe the TM movement has done some great things with respect to increasing the awareness of meditation, research and introducing meditation to high risk segments of the population.

Knowing what I know now I am not sure I would have taken the TM course.  

[bobbyward]

TM is easy to learn, a few hours of research and you will be clear on how to do it.

it is very good for bringing increased peace and quieting the mind. its not a particularly good practice for enlightenment though. 

[Daryn]

The technique is easy to learn but expensive if you learn in through the TM organization.

If you are interested in learning the TM technique there are other ways besides paying thousands for their course,

[Azrael]

On 12.2.2016 at 9:40 AM, Markus said:

I'm interested in hearing what you guys'n'gals think or know about TM (any personal experiences etc.)

TM - as I understand it and I have done just a little youtube / wikipedia / google research back in the days - is mostly a mantra meditation with a simple sound that doesn't mean anything in particular.

Yes, there are these expensive courses and stuff and this is probably just a way to make good money off it BUT: The technique - for stilling your mind - is in my personal experience next to the standard Zen - count your breath from 1 to 10 - technique one of the most effective ones in stilling your mind.

Every time I tried it I got very fast into a state of samadhi - most of the time in 10-15 minutes and could stay in that state for a while. However, I kind of doubt whether it will suit spiritual pursuits. In my experience there are better techniques for that endeavor.

But for stilling the monkey in your head, a mantra may still be the best idea because you really kill the possibility of your mind talking random bullshit.