Improvement of Leo's Speaking Style

[AtheisticNonduality]

@thisintegrated Since you're too . . . illiterate . . . to consider reading SES, I'll have to de-vague it, clarify it, for you. Basically, imagine Wilber as Leo but more intellectually brilliant and with about the same "autism levels of Ne" you might say. His model is superior to standard Spiral Dynamics because it specifies reality more, really revealing the processes by which the upper stages work (though he hadn't encountered SD at the time; it works through the models that preceded it even). Wilber's writing style is very repetitive, because it's almost like he can't experience the point of view of the reader and so has to assume they don't understand it (and then thisintegrated comes along and says, "Ken, tldr?").

[thisintegrated]

25 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

@thisintegrated Since you're too . . . illiterate . . . to consider reading SES, I'll have to de-vague it, clarify it, for you.

I just don't waste my time.  Mr. SES simply failed to pass my BS filters.

 

25 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Basically, imagine Wilber as Leo but more intellectually brilliant and with about the same "autism levels of Ne" you might say. His model is superior to standard Spiral Dynamics because it specifies reality more, really revealing the processes by which the upper stages work

His ideas beyond Turquoise are no more than conjecture.

 

25 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

(though he hadn't encountered SD at the time; it works through the models that preceded it even).

What preceded them both?  Ken's model is a copy paste of SD, with some extras on top.

 

31 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

LEO GURAA!!!

Did you just insult our Gura?

 

31 minutes ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

You don't think there are genetic anomalies beyond Turquoise?

I don't.  There may be psychic people, and those with great paranormal abilities, but in term of human ego development I don't think there's anyone above Turquoise.  Turquoise has a crazy high ceiling.  A person at peak Turquoise is complete.  Yellow is overly intellectual, And Turquoise is like Yellow, but without the flaws.

The stages aren't like IQ.  You can't be born into a stage.  Stages are something developed through life experience.  You accomplish one thing, and then you allow yourself to go on to the next.  How did Mr. Light "accomplish what he needed at Turquoise" and then moved on to better things?

Green comes after you realize the limitations of Orange.  Clear light comes when you realize the limitations of.. what?!  How is Turquoise in any way limited?  Or the many supposed stages above it?

Edited June 17, 2022 by thisintegrated

[AtheisticNonduality]

Just now, thisintegrated said:

I just don't waste my time.

You could just read the Wikipedia page if you can't read a book.

Quote

What preceded them both?  Ken's model is a copy paste of SD, with some extras on top.

You could read it!  His model existed exactly the same before he added the Spiral Dynamics stuff to match it. It's based on Gebser's model of archaic to magic to mythic to rational to integral as the cultural quadrant (lower-left) and the Piagetian model of sensorimotor to preoperational to concrete-operational to formal-operational (upper-right) and Kohlberg's moral development model of preconventional to conventional to postconventional (upper-left). Also, Hegel and more philosophers which describe the same progression.

Quote

Did you just insult our Gura?

Yes.

Quote

I don't.  There may be psychic people, and those with great paranormal abilities,

Really? This is like if you went to some secluded village in India where everyone is 5'4 or less and told them there was once a person over eight feet tall. They wouldn't believe it.

Quote

but in term of human ego development I don't think there's anyone above Turquoise.  Turquoise has a crazy high ceiling.  A person at peak Turquoise is complete.  Yellow is overly intellectual, And Turquoise is like Yellow, but without the flaws.

Turquoise is incomplete because reality is infinite, and once you go to a certain level of infinity, it is no longer Turquoise. Yellow is overly intellectual, and Turquoise is overly undeveloped. A Turquoise person is not God-realized; they only have worldly wholeness and high quality spiritual intelligence. That's all that's required. You extrapolate to Turquoise to go higher than that simply because you don't get the models well enough (the original Spiral Dynamics never had Turquoise spiritualized into mysticism AT ALL. It was just about flexibility and working dynamically. Wilber added the spiritual dimensions truly, and keep in mind Leo probably certainly appropriated SDi from Wilber. And all stages have their pathologies. Don't worry.

Quote

The stages aren't like IQ.  You can't be born into a stage.  Stages are something developed through life experience.  You accomplish one thing, and then you allow yourself to go on to the next.  How did Mr. Light "accomplish what he needed at Turquoise" and then moved on to better things?

Someone may have a predisposition to progress faster. Turquoise fucking sucks by the way (not the color; I love the color; it's beautiful).

[Carl-Richard]

I don't want to know how many comments got deleted here in the rollback ?