So it looks like Teal Swan is finally being exposed.

[integral]

@ZenAlex typical cult pattern. you convinced me. now consider that the pattern looks the same but it's not actually a cult.

Edited June 15, 2022 by integral

[BlueOak]

In a purely orange society. She's forced into defending her public perception because she's using a personal identity to sell herself. Most people in business use a label that can be branded, and separate themselves from the product, eventually the company or just rebranding itself constantly to avoid the bad PR. Nobody is perfect and it builds up, people pull videos from 10 years ago and say SEE SEE. It's honestly sad how a public figure is framed by their three worst videos, rather than their 500 average to good ones. You'll focus in on that with your bias, and say that's her, because it suits your bias for that to be the truth. The truth is a person is a hugely complex thing and should be judged on their entire history if at all.

As for ex-members leaving in terrible shape. She will break down your identity and ego, as will most teachers worth anything. You will have crisis like this if you do this work. I have twice. If you can't handle it, let life teach it to you more slowly. Also people do get in terrible shape all by themselves, to say she's responsible for their psyche or life entirely is to assign her powers that simply don't exist.

Now my own bugbear.

'Cult' the term universally applied to anyone who has even a thought that isn't in line with what society says you should have. Don't dare form a group that acts outside social norms, tries alternative solutions, or even forms a way of life that isn't a 9-5 robotic way of life enslaved to billionaires, you'll be flooded with messaging like his. 

I have little bias towards Teal. I watch her time to time, her videos on inner emotional work helped me a decade ago. Her videos on society in general I have/had a lot of issues with. Yet this programming you have in your mind to call something outside of your experience a cult always infuriates me.

[ZenAlex]

9 minutes ago, BlueOak said:

In a purely orange society. She's forced into defending her public perception because she's using a personal identity to sell herself. Most people in business use a label that can be branded, and separate themselves from the product, eventually the company or just rebranding itself constantly to avoid the bad PR. Nobody is perfect and it builds up, people pull videos from 10 years ago and say SEE SEE. It's honestly sad how a public figure is framed by their three worst videos, rather than their 500 average to good ones. You'll focus in on that with your bias, and say that's her, because it suits your bias for that to be the truth. The truth is a person is a hugely complex thing and should be judged on their entire history if at all.

As for ex-members leaving in terrible shape. She will break down your identity and ego, as will most teachers worth anything. You will have crisis like this if you do this work. I have twice. If you can't handle it, let life teach it to you more slowly. Also people do get in terrible shape all by themselves, to say she's responsible for their psyche or life entirely is to assign her powers that simply don't exist.

Now my own bugbear.

'Cult' the term universally applied to anyone who has even a thought that isn't in line with what society says you should have. Don't dare form a group that acts outside social norms, tries alternative solutions, or even forms a way of life that isn't a 9-5 robotic way of life enslaved to billionaires, you'll be flooded with messaging like his. 

I have little bias towards Teal. I watch her time to time, her videos on inner emotional work helped me a decade ago. Her videos on society in general I have/had a lot of issues with. Yet this programming you have in your mind to call something outside of your experience a cult always infuriates me.

lol of course. Anyone who would say Teal is a cult leader is merely a stage orange programmed sheep. There's no other possibility. There's no evidence or reason, it's just she's just out there and different, and we just don't understand! Any cult will say the same.

I'm accusing her of being a cult leader because how she often acts, the allegations against her, how she organises and sets her groups up, and how superficial she appears. All these things give me red flags.

You can call me brainwashed all you want but you're just spinning a narrative that me and all those like me are just stage orange drones who think that all groups that venture outside the norm MUST be cults is a bit manipulative of you to be honest.

 

 

[zurew]

@ZenAlex I think all of those things could be mentioned, when we are talking about actualized.org if you want to interpret things in a bad faith way.

 

1 hour ago, ZenAlex said:

It's typical cult bullshit. They'll create their own bibles of fucked up shit, that they are familiar with more than anyone else, and when you are not familiar with all of it, they'll tell you that "you just don't understand".

This can be interpreted about actualized.org too, when we say that people actually don't understand what Leo is talking about and what Leo is teaching about . But you can get around this ,if you actually show a high level of understanding of the teachings and then lay out why they are dangerous or bad or anything that you have a problem with .

You have to show a high level of understanding first, and then after you proved yourself to that community, they will be more open to your criticisms.

1 hour ago, ZenAlex said:

And yet the outcome is often the same. Ex members left in terrible shape, abuse, and obviously cult like behaviour, and when it's questioned, you bet you the followers will be prepared with pre-ordained responses, ready to spew you with their groups crap to overwhelm you and defend their behaviour as "enlightened" behaviour that most people just can't understand.

This can be said about actualized.org too, if you want to interpret things that way. For instance, there are some people , who say that people on actualized.org committed suicide, because of Leo and because of his teachings . Of course, if any of the actualized.org members will disagree with that or if Leo will disagree with that, they can always say "Of course they disagree, because they are a cult".

You need to justify  positions like that in a different way,  to be more compelling.

There are some claims that are hard to justify, but if your claims hold any validity at all, then you should be able to show some evidence to justify them. Teal Swan's group is not new at all, if you can't show any video or any picture or any audio about her doing some shady shit (after all these years), then it will be hard to justify your positions only using some of her members claims.

Just think about it, if there is really some shady shit going on, wouldn't you have more evidence than just a few ex members saying things about her without evidence (or maybe they actually have some evidence, but it is your job to lay those out).

 

So far your argument is not compelling imo, because of these reasons:

1. You are laying out your opinions on her that are up for debate. The reason why your opinions about her are up for debate, because you didn't provide any tangible evidence to back them up.
2. The only countable "evidence" you showed so far is the claim, that her ex members are fucked up and they feel they are fucked up because of Teal Swan. But even that is weak, because those are just claims without backing them up with anything. (I could myself say some shit about some group without showing any evidence, and i wouldn't be suprised, if people would disagree with me)  [ Now, of course the more ex members are coming up with claims like that, the stronger you position get, but after a while there has to be something that can actually back their claims up ]

So without any compelling evidence, i don't think you will be able to convince anyone here, who disagrees with you. You need to make it so that your claims are not up for interpretation.

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by zurew

[mrPixel]

Teal Swan is full of shit.

[Matt23]

I always got weird vibes from her.  

[BlueOak]

24 minutes ago, ZenAlex said:

lol of course. Anyone who would say Teal is a cult leader is merely a stage orange programmed sheep. There's no other possibility. There's no evidence or reason, it's just she's just out there and different, and we just don't understand! Any cult will say the same.

I'm accusing her of being a cult leader because how she often acts, the allegations against her, how she organises and sets her groups up, and how superficial she appears. All these things give me red flags.

You can call me brainwashed all you want but you're just spinning a narrative that me and all those like me are just stage orange drones who think that all groups that venture outside the norm MUST be cults is a bit manipulative of you to be honest.

 

 

Never called you stage orange at all. I don't profess to know anything about you other than this post. The orange comment was how a business operates free from this type of PR nightmare, with often far more powerful and dangerous people running them. By using her name she's brought some of this on herself to deal with operating in this type of environment.

I am saying you are trying to label someone a cult leader who has been helpful to millions because you don't like how she operates.  Because some people have chosen to hang on every word she says. People express love for her, because she's speaking to areas of themselves that are neglected or unloved, and when you do that a reaction is common, it's called transference. It happens to many therapists for example and they have clear guidelines how to deal with it. That's their issue, in their psyche. Over an audience of millions gaining some unstable students or people following her work is going to happen, especially because a percentage of people go to teachers like this because they are suicidal. Sure you could tell her to distance herself more from them and address it more, that might be valid. Work on boundaries in her videos for her students, but she'd be needing to reinforce that on a regular basis for it to be effective. 

I see this word cult thrown around all the time for anything, and it's getting to the point it's ridiculously overused, and part of the reason no change is happening in society anymore. It's one more tool of suppression in the collective psyche. I could have been nicer in how I phrased this, and I apologize for that, but it doesn't change how much I hate this.

Edited June 15, 2022 by BlueOak

[Ulax]

Lmao ye she's absolutely full of it.

I used to watch her vids a lot too.

Literally just watch this scene from the timestamp:

https://youtu.be/N486N0EJfd0?t=496

Teal's main defence seems to be that it was all a matter of a lack of context. The behaviour elicited in that scene by her is inappropriate and unhealthy no matter the context, from someone in her position.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Ulax

[fopylo]

@Leo Gura

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If she has a bunch of her most loyal followers living under one roof I can pretty much guarantee that will be a shitshow. They will be too immature to manage that. I expect many of Teal's followers to be mentally unstable and emotionally reactive. Getting such people together under one roof in a small community is gonna be dangerous.

Dude I would say it is exactly the same with your loyal followers. Take a moment to also see how your own followers are immature, mentally unstable and emotionally reactive. Your community is quite dangerous as well if I'm being honest

[Arthogaan]

This is what happens to radically conscious leaders that do not care about their image.

Not so long ago with Bentinho, Leo and now Teal.

It's almost like if I would ever look for some new teacher I would check if he had been seriously accused of running a cult/narcisism and if he did not, probably his message is too watered down and has a lot bullshit 

[integral]

@Ulax She's also talking to an employee whos criticizing her. Consider that your cherry picking and assuming gurus need to fit a standard youve set. 

Edited June 15, 2022 by integral

[Arthogaan]

6 minutes ago, fopylo said:

@Leo Gura

Dude I would say it is exactly the same with your loyal followers. Take a moment to also see how your own followers are immature, mentally unstable and emotionally reactive. Your community is quite dangerous as well if I'm being honest

Leo knows this about his followers, he literally said in this thread that's why he does not create physical community: 
"Then again, any physical New Age spiritual community built around a charismatic teacher is going to take on cult like dynamics. Which is why I never started one. "

[Ulax]

1 minute ago, integral said:

@Ulax She's also talking to an employee whos criticizing her. Cherry picking and assuming gurus are perfect. 

Teal swan Business meetings be like: https://youtu.be/xBWmkwaTQ0k?t=85

 

 

[integral]

Just now, Ulax said:

Teal swan Business meetings be like: https://youtu.be/xBWmkwaTQ0k?t=85

LMFAOOO come one man... to take one moment she had and come to the conclusion that all her meetings are tyrannical, its cherry picking... 

[zurew]

21 minutes ago, Ulax said:

 

 

I think this is a fair critique, that you shouldn't make yourself the center of your teachings (I think even Leo could be criticized for this, because in some of his past videos, he was talking about himself and his abilities and that he went the deepest with his awakenings etc, and i don't think that helps his teachings in any way and it just make him look narcissistic and egotistical from a normal person's pov and some of the actualized members will just look up to him and put him on a pedestal and just adapt his teachings as a belief system and won't do any work). 

Edited June 15, 2022 by zurew

[Ulax]

11 minutes ago, zurew said:

 

I think this is a fair critique, that you shouldn't make yourself the center of your teachings (I think even Leo could be criticized for this, because in some of his past videos, he was talking about himself and his abilities and that he went the deepest with his awakenings etc, and i don't think that helps his teachings in any way and it just make him look narcissistic and egotistical from a normal person's pov and some of the actualized members will just look up to him and put him on a pedestal and just adapt his teachings as a belief system and won't do any work). 

Ye if I came across actualized.org, w/o knowing about enlightenment, and watched Leo's live awakening video where he keeps smiling and saying how he's realized he's god, I'd deffo think he's a narcissist ?. 

[Danioover9000]

   Entire delusion. All of this is just stage green person/group being misunderstood by stage orange value systems individual, cherry picking in support of their own distorted view. The sad thing about all of this, is this is part of the transformational dilemma of trying to go through to stage green, which fuels many of the culture wars today.

   It always depends on what stage, cognitive and moral development, personality traits, states of consciousness and life experiences so far, at the end of it all.

[Danioover9000]

@zurew

1 hour ago, zurew said:

 

I think this is a fair critique, that you shouldn't make yourself the center of your teachings (I think even Leo could be criticized for this, because in some of his past videos, he was talking about himself and his abilities and that he went the deepest with his awakenings etc, and i don't think that helps his teachings in any way and it just make him look narcissistic and egotistical from a normal person's pov and some of the actualized members will just look up to him and put him on a pedestal and just adapt his teachings as a belief system and won't do any work). 

   While it's a 'fair' criticism, keep in mind that all criticism is ultimately untenable. Even the most constructive good faith critic.

[Razard86]

3 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

I never said it was just based on a documentary, did I? Read my posts. 

I cannot prove 100% that she is. But it's the way she organises her community, having little congregations of her most "loyal" followers, appearing very superficial, and also the allegations against her from ex-followers.

But the reality is, in some cases unless you appear to have a 100% understanding of guru/leaders works/books/writings etc, they'll just "then what ground do you have to stand on to judge her behaviour". 

It's typical cult bullshit. They'll create their own bibles of fucked up shit, that they are familiar with more than anyone else, and when you are not familiar with all of it, they'll tell you that "you just don't understand".

So basically these cult leader types will get away with a lot because anyone who sees the fucked up behaviour "just doesn't understand", and will respond to you with made up jibberish from their teachings which will overwhelm you and make you feel uncertain of yourself, and they and their followers will be like "aha, see, you have no clue what you're talking about!!".

Boohoo, our group and our leader are just so misunderstood..

And yet the outcome is often the same. Ex members left in terrible shape, abuse, and obviously cult like behaviour, and when it's questioned, you bet you the followers will be prepared with pre-ordained responses, ready to spew you with their groups crap to overwhelm you and defend their behaviour as "enlightened" behaviour that most people just can't understand.

It;s the same shit, over and over and over and over and over again! It's the exact same fucking tactics!

1. You got a lot of emotion.....what is triggering you.

2. Anything can be argued to be a cult depending on how you look at it. 

3. When you talk about ex-members you clearly haven't worked with people. When you work with groups of people, especially people who follow you many of these people have psychological or mental disorders. They will do things and then for some attention BLAME YOU FOR THEM. Hell if you sell stuff on EBAY long enough, a person will give you a 1 star rating for a package taking too long and you aren't responsible for that, its the Post Office.

I've worked in jobs where you have to deal with large groups of people and when you bring large groups of people together they act like children. Its called the HERD mentality and its why riots start. Unless you have first hand information its all just speculation.

AGAIN I don't watch her content so I have no dog in this fight. 

[Yog]

As a video editor myself, there is one thing I can say for sure.

This is not a documentary about her.

Its a about the directors story, casting her as the protagonist.