What is your barometer for discerning the truth of insights?

[JuliusCaesar]

Personally, I use a fairly complex method that has its roots in the epistemological position that knowledge can only be acquired through experience. I've never attempted to codify it before, but I guess for you I'll attempt to do so.

 

So essentially, I'll divide my methodology into a set of commandments that theoretically anyone can follow.

 

1. All conclusions must be derived from both direct and indirect experience.

2. The validity of third-person experience must be evaluated on the basis of first-person experience which corroborates the occurrence in a logically consistent way. Only when these are in agreement should a conclusion be formed. And know that in the future you may find cause to reject part or all of your initial conclusion(s).

3. Don't rely too heavily on your ability to reason, accept what's experienced as true, there will be plenty of time to make sense of it after the fact.

4. Don't assume that your current preconceived notions are necessarily true, search for evidence that contradicts your current views.

5. Don't make the mistake of assuming that experts are right simply because they're experts or they've reached a consensus. They've been wrong a plethora of times in the past, and they will continue to do so in the future.

6. Be open-minded to an extent that appears totally irrational to most humans. If you follow all of my guidelines, you don't have to worry about the downside possibility of believing absolutely everything you hear.

7. Don't assume that you must be wrong about something because at first glance you've gained knowledge that contradicts what you know already. It's highly probable that there's some validity to all of your views and thoughts as well as everyone else's, even the views that seem totally impossible and unthinkable to you.

 

[Razard86]

On 6/15/2022 at 5:40 AM, Leo Gura said:

Mostly just my own selfishness, arrogance, and limited worldview.

Lol so pretty much what every human identity has done when faced with their True Self. 

[Razard86]

On 6/15/2022 at 9:04 AM, RMQualtrough said:

If one of your ideas is relative in nature, and testable, then you can see if you're just wacko. If you think you can cure people of cancer and blindness etc, then you will find out pretty quickly that you have in fact, lost the plot.

Some things are logically proveable etc.

And then there is the definitive type of truth... You don't need experiments or science to show you that you are aware and that things are appearing. This type of truth is self evident and absolute. It cannot be superceded or denied, it does not require logic or experiments.

There are people who have healed themselves. Expand your beliefs.

[Matthew85]

2 hours ago, JuliusCaesar said:

4. Don't assume that your current preconceived notions are necessarily true, search for evidence that contradicts your current views.

@JuliusCaesar I love this. How many of us do this?

2 hours ago, JuliusCaesar said:

5. Don't make the mistake of assuming that experts are right simply because they're experts or they've reached a consensus. They've been wrong a plethora of times in the past, and they will continue to do so in the future.

I do really well with this one.

2 hours ago, JuliusCaesar said:

6. Be open-minded to an extent that appears totally irrational to most humans. If you follow all of my guidelines, you don't have to worry about the downside possibility of believing absolutely everything you hear.

I'm very open minded but also skeptical. I never blindly follow or believe. Important to develop critical independent thinking.

2 hours ago, JuliusCaesar said:

7. Don't assume that you must be wrong about something because at first glance you've gained knowledge that contradicts what you know already. It's highly probable that there's some validity to all of your views and thoughts as well as everyone else's, even the views that seem totally impossible and unthinkable to you.

Good advice!

2 hours ago, JuliusCaesar said:

1. All conclusions must be derived from both direct and indirect experience.

I agree. I lean more toward my own direct experience only because others are often deluded. Or offer a mix of truth with other distorted ideas. 

Thank you for sharing your method!

Edited July 7, 2022 by Matthew85

[Matthew85]

2 hours ago, BenG said:

What matters more than the method is the desire and determination. Without that even psychedelics are useless.

@BenG True. I have often had profound insights on low doses of psychedelics where friends will have a fun trip but that's all. 

2 hours ago, BenG said:

Absolutely. I mean, psychedelics pretty much just show you your own mind. So, whatever ideas/belief systems you've got are what you'll see. But what you see is also what you've gotta try and deconstruct imo. Comes back to how you can't really assume that what the substance shows you is necessarily true. You've gotta find whatever is beyond it/sourcing it.

Great advice! 

[SourceCodo]

On 6/14/2022 at 7:20 PM, Matthew85 said:

I am very intrigued in the amazing potential psychedelics can offer us in our work exploring consciousness and reality. But I would be interested to hear from my fellow psychonauts how you go about discerning the truth and validity of the insights and revelations you receive? I have seen examples of people gaining profound truths and others becoming very deluded. Obviously there are many factors that could contribute to either scenario. 

No barometer, rather, I hold the view that the ideas are just information which either fits into the puzzle I’m piecing of this mind… Or it doesn’t. That usually means it’s relevant or perhaps something extraordinary happened. Extraordinary usually equates to insight from metaphor. 
 

I think that with’ psychedelic insight, truth is derived, rather than created by. So to say it’s the psychedelic giving us information isn’t necessarily the ticket. It’s a chemical acting on our system which makes our mind behave in a manner that is unique compared to day to day living. Opening to modes, new perspectives, new ideas.
 

I’d rather turn the question back and ask… How much do you trust your own mind? How is the quality of what your mind brings you day to day? 

Edited July 8, 2022 by SourceCodo

[Razard86]

On 7/6/2022 at 9:57 PM, BenG said:

Bro, get real. Even if hypothetically in some extremely rare cases, supernatural healing could be possible, do you honestly understand anything about it?

Do not project your lack of curiosity onto me. I understand it completely and it makes complete sense. As long as you have this limiting belief you will never discover it. There is tons of evidence out there for it. There are even people who have documented themselves doing it and have Doctors who have witnessed it and can only describe it as a miracle. Miracles are not actually miracles, they are normal. A miracle is no more a miracle than Cell Phone or Wireless internet. To a Caveman Cell Phone Technology is a Miracle.

So yes the evidence is out there, but if you don't believe in the possibility you will never discover it. Reality is your servant. It will only reveal what you believe to be true.

[Matthew85]

11 hours ago, SourceCodo said:

I’d rather turn the question back and ask… How much do you trust your own mind? How is the quality of what your mind brings you day to day? 

@SourceCodo Great question!

My experience has shown me my mind can be deceptive. This presents challenges when trying to use mind to comprehend mind. 

[PenguinPablo]

I just ask myself: Is this guy about that life or he is full of shit?

[Razard86]

7 hours ago, BenG said:

OK, sorry.

If you completely understand it, can you preform miracle healings? 

If not, is understanding it different from being able to do it? 

I understand the process of how a Guru can reach Samadhi, it doesn't mean I have completed the process. Let's just say the same process it takes for a Guru to reach Samadhi is similar to how healing is performed. 

Here is a guy who created video evidence of healing himself.  He even put date marks on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crV8Z6eOIdw

People can actually become intoxicated off of non-alcoholic drinks because they assume they are drinking alcohol. 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1422109/

You can look into a Neuroscientist named Joe Dispenza

 

So there is evidence of people doing it. Guru's have talked about this for centuries.

No Medicine has EVER healed you. Medicine is a catalyst, a facilitator to help your body chemically heal. If you body couldn't heal then no medicine would work. There is research that supports the mind's impact on healing. True knowledge of healing goes beyond currently accepted mainstream science. But if you are curious, there is information out there. 

I suffered from back pain for over a decade and recently got an X- Ray this year. The Doctor prescribed some medicine and exercises for me to do. I took no medicine, did no exercises and it healed itself the next day. I realized me going to the Doctor made me believe I was ok and that is probably what healed my back. My Back is healed. Obviously I didn't have an injury anywhere as severe as these two above but I am a living witness myself of the mind's power over the body.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Razard86

[SourceCodo]

1 hour ago, Matthew85 said:

@SourceCodo Great question!

My experience has shown me my mind can be deceptive. This presents challenges when trying to use mind to comprehend mind. 

Most of the Zen writings I’ve explored brought this up clearly. 
 

All “things” are products of the mind. Including the senses. 
 

and the mind is constantly lying to us and manipulating us into various actions or inactions. Steering our path using the ways of the world and everything it thinks it can comprehend or just what it wants.
 

But then those ZM’s point out that the mind is a fallacious liar. It’s not always easy to see that we are fallacious liars, but it’s easy to see in others. But when we can see it so clearly in everyone… It’s only logical that we too are probably this way. Even if only due to ignorance. 
 

They also point out that as soon as you put all of that nonsense down and start just experiencing rather than pacing back and forth in thoughts… Then you’ll see reality. Clean and pure. 
 

“Not till your thoughts cease all their branching here and there, not till you abandon all thoughts of seeking for something, not till your mind is motionless as wood or stone, will you be on the right road to the Gate.” “Here it is--right now. Start thinking about it and you miss it.” Huang Po

[Razard86]

18 hours ago, SourceCodo said:

Most of the Zen writings I’ve explored brought this up clearly. 
 

All “things” are products of the mind. Including the senses. 
 

and the mind is constantly lying to us and manipulating us into various actions or inactions. Steering our path using the ways of the world and everything it thinks it can comprehend or just what it wants.
 

But then those ZM’s point out that the mind is a fallacious liar. It’s not always easy to see that we are fallacious liars, but it’s easy to see in others. But when we can see it so clearly in everyone… It’s only logical that we too are probably this way. Even if only due to ignorance. 
 

They also point out that as soon as you put all of that nonsense down and start just experiencing rather than pacing back and forth in thoughts… Then you’ll see reality. Clean and pure. 
 

“Not till your thoughts cease all their branching here and there, not till you abandon all thoughts of seeking for something, not till your mind is motionless as wood or stone, will you be on the right road to the Gate.” “Here it is--right now. Start thinking about it and you miss it.” Huang Po

Exactly you get it!!! Every teaching always teaches that our power is in the present moment. You cannot think your way to the present moment. Which is hard for many of Western Culture because we are a culture of thought. Its why I speak that the Educated Man is the Deluded Man. He thinks that he can think his way to Truth which you cannot. All thought is projection. As long as you project, you cannot see what is actually there.