What Are The Traps Young Men Fall Into?

[Realms of Wonder]

Being a young man, and seeing so many around, ages 18-27, many seem sad, depressed, disconnected from reality.

 

Why is this?

 

It would be really meaningful to show them the traps keeping them stuck, to inspire them with a vision, to radiate love into them, and show them how to Love their self.

 

What are the traps YOU see  young men falling into in this day and age?

 

What I see is...

Falsehood, in the form of…

1. Social media/entertainment
2. Music: selling a false dream, spiritually shallow, idolizing materialism, and so on..
3. Role models: celebrities, musicians, political leaders, parents, and friends.

Addictions such as...

1. Drugs: nicotine, weed, cocaine, etc..
2. Chronic porn/masturbation

Disconnection from...

1. Their authentic self/inner guidance
2. Feeling
3. Emotions
4. Authentic desires
5. Values
6. Strengths
7. Others: Lack of high quality friends/companions.

 

What am I missing?

Edited June 14, 2022 by Realms of Wonder
Grammer.

[AtheisticNonduality]

5 minutes ago, Realms of Wonder said:

What am I missing?

Well, you are missing the positive alternatives to the negatives you described above.

Quote

Falsehood, in the form of…

1. Social media/entertainment

What you have to counteract social media / entertainment which gives out falsehood? What would a healthier social media or entertainment landscape look like?

Quote

1. 
   
2. Music: selling a false dream, spiritually shallow, idolizing materialism, and so on..

What false dream? There are many. But the obvious way to combat this is through making or absorbing music that is less spiritually shallow and doesn't idolize materialism and so on, even though we might use this recognition of music and much of anything else really having material aspects to it for our integration of that materialist way of thinking before we transcend it.

Quote

1. 
   
2. Role models: celebrities, musicians, political leaders, parents, and friends.

Aren't there good musicians, political leaders, parents, and friends though? How we sort the good from bad, is the real question.

Quote

Their authentic self/inner guidance

Feeling

Emotions

Authentic desires

Values

Strengths

Others: Lack of high quality friends/companions.

That's what brings us back to these values. Seems like a task for @Gesundheit2.

[Oeaohoo]

Here’s a few: analysis paralysis, unjustified (or at least unproven) sense of superiority over others or chronic inferiority and consequent social anxiety, lots of big ideas that amount to nothing or taking every day as it comes without living up any larger vision, being too serious or too frivolous with life, glorifying women (“simping”) or resenting them, becoming overly obsessive with personal interests or failing to hone in on a skill set, turning back on society and a “know-it-all” mentality or blindly following the herd, not being open to guidance from others or failing to take initiative, damaging extent of frantic masturbation and porn-watching in youth followed by phase of extreme no-fap, failing to purge negative emotions by communicating and offloading with others and becoming embittered with life or getting lost in the labyrinth of relationships, failing or not even attempting to integrate the feminine polarity or being out of touch with the masculine nature, and so on.

A bit of a cobbled together list but I think many of these apply. It is worth pointing out that many of these superficially contradictory attitudes often go hand in hand with each other and inhabit the same one man. Usually, one of them will be exteriorised while the other will be internalised, e.g. hates women externally but glorifies them internally is very common amongst “manosphere” types.

All of that being said, I don’t think it is good enough to view this all through a self-help “falling into traps” lens. Many men today are falling into these traps because they correctly see that present-day society is not worth contributing to.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Oeaohoo

[Maka]

FAST FOOD + Lack of experience + Abusive Traumatized Narcissistic Parents + too much stimulation + drugs and alcohol available everywhere to everyone + Media that make mental illness problems seem ordinary (Mr.Robot) + subliminal messages in movies and songs? + Sexual Frustration 

[Leo Gura]

Fundamentally, no sense of life purpose as their minds are co-opted by shallow social conditioning and doing what all their friends and family are doing -- which is just a mindless and mediocre form of surviving.

From this all the other problems stem.

[Realms of Wonder]

4 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Well, you are missing the positive alternatives to the negatives you described above.

Correct, the purpose of the thread is to identify the biggest, core problems/traps young men fall into.

4 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

What you have to counteract social media / entertainment which gives out falsehood? What would a healthier social media or entertainment landscape look like?

Great question. 

4 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

What false dream? There are many. But the obvious way to combat this is through making or absorbing music that is less spiritually shallow and doesn't idolize materialism and so on, even though we might use this recognition of music and much of anything else really having material aspects to it for our integration of that materialist way of thinking before we transcend it.

False dream: when a music artist creates music spouting about drugs and sex and fast cars and success, as if that is true fulfillment, and going to make someone happy. (not that those things are bad,) I dont see that being the dream life. 

Those are some really good points about Music. Thank you for sharing.

4 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

Aren't there good musicians, political leaders, parents, and friends though? How we sort the good from bad, is the real question.

There are! Definitely, once again specifically talking about traps and problems not the solution, YET.

[Realms of Wonder]

4 hours ago, Oeaohoo said:

Here’s a few: analysis paralysis, unjustified (or at least unproven) sense of superiority over others or chronic inferiority and consequent social anxiety, lots of big ideas that amount to nothing or taking every day as it comes without living up any larger vision, being too serious or too frivolous with life, glorifying women (“simping”) or resenting them, becoming overly obsessive with personal interests or failing to hone in on a skill set, turning back on society and a “know-it-all” mentality or blindly following the herd, not being open to guidance from others or failing to take initiative, damaging extent of frantic masturbation and porn-watching in youth followed by phase of extreme no-fap, failing to purge negative emotions by communicating and offloading with others and becoming embittered with life or getting lost in the labyrinth of relationships, failing or not even attempting to integrate the feminine polarity or being out of touch with the masculine nature, and so on.

A bit of a cobbled together list but I think many of these apply. It is worth pointing out that many of these superficially contradictory attitudes often go hand in hand with each other and inhabit the same one man. Usually, one of them will be exteriorised while the other will be internalised, e.g. hates women externally but glorifies them internally is very common amongst “manosphere” types.

Thank you for your perspective, you touched on a ton here. 

4 hours ago, Oeaohoo said:

All of that being said, I don’t think it is good enough to view this all through a self-help “falling into traps” lens. Many men today are falling into these traps because they correctly see that present-day society is not worth contributing to.

What do you mean?

[Realms of Wonder]

4 hours ago, Maka said:

FAST FOOD + Lack of experience + Abusive Traumatized Narcissistic Parents + too much stimulation + drugs and alcohol available everywhere to everyone + Media that make mental illness problems seem ordinary (Mr.Robot) + subliminal messages in movies and songs? + Sexual Frustration 

Lots of good points. Thank you  

[Oeaohoo]

6 hours ago, Realms of Wonder said:

Thank you for your perspective, you touched on a ton here. 

What do you mean?

In most parts of the world today the same phenomenon of mass male failure are observable: in Japan, for example, there are the “Herbivore men” who have lost the capacity for traditional masculine assertiveness and directionality and in extreme cases the Hikikomori who isolate themselves from society altogether. In the West we see a society becoming more feminised by the day, emphasising safety, security and material comfort above all else, so that masculinity is actively discouraged for young men today except in very crude and degraded forms like the “Real G”s of modern music and celebrity culture. It is the ‘dominance of women in the household’ during ‘extreme forms of democracy, characteristic of tyranny’ which Aristotle spoke of. There are a few women who will lament this loss of virility in men and seek out a real man, but many will laud over it as the “new man” who is not afraid to express his weakness and his sentimentality, probably because they like having their man as a little dog they can use for their own vanity and pleasure.

In all of these places it is most generally reflected in declining birth-rates and the loss of any desire to assist in the preservation of one’s society. There are very weird and sad male sub-cultures today such as the anime waifu, multifarious fetishes for muscular and masculinised women representing a deferring of the masculine role, exponential increase in varieties of sexuality which deviate from the norm, and so on. I don’t think it is enough to simply view all of this as men falling into traps who just need a little self-help advice. They are symptoms of the broken nature of modern society which no longer adequately encourages people to contribute to anything greater themselves. After all, this would be “toxic masculinity”!

[Breakingthewall]

people are sad because they are smart. only idiots are happy running after the carrot and trying to fit in. sadness makes it necessary to look for an alternative and the alternative is liberation

[Vision]

On 6/15/2022 at 9:52 AM, Oeaohoo said:

analysis paralysis

@OeaohooWhat does analysis paralysis mean to you?

[Extreme Z7]

Basically, Distraction. . .  Distraction everywhere.

Even if you're already on a Life Purpose journey, distraction will still get ya'.

[puporing]

Sense of agency (lack of).

Disconnection from truth and love.

Getting lost with "group think" (related to above).

[bejapuskas]

In my experience I got caught in peer pressure to have sex and settled for people that I didnt think deserved me and rationalized my discontent to myself as "I am just being selfless", which was really shitty of me. Also consented to things I didnt enjoy because I just thought I should enjoy any kind of sex and just get it done with. Felt really awkward. Only do it if you really feelin it.

[Realms of Wonder]

On 6/15/2022 at 1:44 AM, Oeaohoo said:

In most parts of the world today the same phenomenon of mass male failure are observable: in Japan, for example, there are the “Herbivore men” who have lost the capacity for traditional masculine assertiveness and directionality and in extreme cases the Hikikomori who isolate themselves from society altogether. In the West we see a society becoming more feminised by the day, emphasising safety, security and material comfort above all else, so that masculinity is actively discouraged for young men today except in very crude and degraded forms like the “Real G”s of modern music and celebrity culture. It is the ‘dominance of women in the household’ during ‘extreme forms of democracy, characteristic of tyranny’ which Aristotle spoke of. There are a few women who will lament this loss of virility in men and seek out a real man, but many will laud over it as the “new man” who is not afraid to express his weakness and his sentimentality, probably because they like having their man as a little dog they can use for their own vanity and pleasure.

In all of these places it is most generally reflected in declining birth-rates and the loss of any desire to assist in the preservation of one’s society. There are very weird and sad male sub-cultures today such as the anime waifu, multifarious fetishes for muscular and masculinised women representing a deferring of the masculine role, exponential increase in varieties of sexuality which deviate from the norm, and so on. I don’t think it is enough to simply view all of this as men falling into traps who just need a little self-help advice. They are symptoms of the broken nature of modern society which no longer adequately encourages people to contribute to anything greater themselves. After all, this would be “toxic masculinity”!

Thank you for making the time to more fully explain your perspective. 

 

Well said, pointing to the structural problems not just he symptoms.

[Realms of Wonder]

On 7/2/2022 at 0:01 AM, puporing said:

Sense of agency (lack of).

Disconnection from truth and love.

Getting lost with "group think" (related to above).

I see it so often. It is no wonder so many young men are sad and depressed.

On 7/4/2022 at 1:01 PM, bejapuskas said:

In my experience I got caught in peer pressure to have sex and settled for people that I didnt think deserved me and rationalized my discontent to myself as "I am just being selfless", which was really shitty of me. Also consented to things I didnt enjoy because I just thought I should enjoy any kind of sex and just get it done with. Felt really awkward. Only do it if you really feelin it.

Those are some really good points, what did it take to learn from those experiences? It seems you have more wisdom looking back, then you did in those specific moments.

[bejapuskas]

@Realms of Wonder

 

 

Obviously I was really influenced by the RedPill perspective even my father kind of supports and talks about. He always talked to me how its not about pleasure but rather about reproduction, how men just always enjoy it... (I later questioned my gender and idk if I am a man, but that doesnt change anything here, I think I used to be a man, or at least socialized that way, so I can bring some Insight here)

I guess as a virgin I didnt understand the significance of how much this and also peer pressure to lose virginity affected me. One day I met a friend who happens to be asexual sex repulsed, and he made me question this stuff, like in his view, sex wasnt this inherently good thing, and when I talked to him and could see the world through his perspective, I could then look back and realized what I was settling for just wasnt good.

I had this endurism mindset, opposite of escapism, where I just kept blaming myself for not enjoying it, either having shame od something else, but I later realized I am actually "quite a whore" and if sb cannot pleasure me, its probably also their fault.

Also I tried different things, which was questionably breaking my ex's boundaries, but it made me realize I dont wanna stay in this situation.

Males bodies in my opinion arent less compley than female, theyre all similarly complex and people have to learn and be sensitive.

[OBEler]

Believing blindly what authority says(a doctor, a teacher, media)... 

 

 

[Realms of Wonder]

15 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

@Realms of Wonder

Obviously I was really influenced by the RedPill perspective even my father kind of supports and talks about. He always talked to me how its not about pleasure but rather about reproduction, how men just always enjoy it... (I later questioned my gender and idk if I am a man, but that doesnt change anything here, I think I used to be a man, or at least socialized that way, so I can bring some Insight here)

I guess as a virgin I didnt understand the significance of how much this and also peer pressure to lose virginity affected me. One day I met a friend who happens to be asexual sex repulsed, and he made me question this stuff, like in his view, sex wasnt this inherently good thing, and when I talked to him and could see the world through his perspective, I could then look back and realized what I was settling for just wasnt good.

I had this endurism mindset, opposite of escapism, where I just kept blaming myself for not enjoying it, either having shame od something else, but I later realized I am actually "quite a whore" and if sb cannot pleasure me, its probably also their fault.

Also I tried different things, which was questionably breaking my ex's boundaries, but it made me realize I dont wanna stay in this situation.

Males bodies in my opinion arent less compley than female, theyre all similarly complex and people have to learn and be sensitive.

Very Interesting hearing more of the story.

You sharing about talking with that friend who was asexual, reminded me of when I was 17, a girl I was friends with in highschool said the same, instead of try to see it through her perspective though, I (in my mind) demonized her like there was something "wrong" with her. Was it difficult to see sexuality through his perspective?

Endurism, had to google that one. very interesting, sounds like you have come a long way my friend, gaining awareness of more and more of yourself.

 

Thank you for sharing

 

[bejapuskas]

@Realms of Wonder No worries

It was challenging and I had to try to understand it. There are also different types of asexual and aromantic people, just like there are allosexual and alloromantic (those who experience romantic and sexual attraction in the way people usually imagine it), everyone sees it differently. So I had to go through a lot of nuances.

In his case, he was assigned girl at birth and indentified that way for a long time, after which he started questioning sexuality and romance. This later translated into also becoming non-binary trans, because he could no longer identify with how society put his identity into different boxes just because of his body parts that he himself does not consider important. (he never wants to become pregnant or have sex etc. so they are kind of useless)

I really resonated with this because as a perfectionist, I always try to push myself to be of greater use to this world. And this new person seemed like their life was beyond all this sex and dating I spent so much time and energy into without achieving much satisfaction. Of course later I realized they also suffer from societal pressure to do things they dont wanna do, like parents feeling entitled to push them to have kids etc. which can be quite painful.

Anyways, I also explored many different types of attractions which helped me question my sexuality, like not just romantic and sexual, but also sensual, aesthetic etc. 

Perhaps the biggest misconception about asexuals is that they are repressed like stage blue people and that is why they are discriminated against. But actually, from my experience, they just question norma and societal pressure way more and many of them are much less repressed than allosexuals, who just engage in "vanilla sex" and dont try any other things, for example non-sexual kinky stuff, which can mean that they become so limited in which parts of their bodies are sensitive and they essentaly remain stuck. Or alloromantic people who dont question romance and just fall into weird patterns, while not trying to redefine what human connection is for themselves.

But essentially I dont know what it is like to be them, its like as if a person who cannot see is being explained what it is like to see. My friend told me growing up, they essentially didnt lose their childhood hobbies. They didnt give them up to chase crushes. Which also resulted in discrimination and divide.