What is there, other than survival?

[thisintegrated]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

1) Don't make a shadow out of survival.

2) Enjoy life, enjoy survival, enjoy the process. Much joy can be found in survival. Go talk to some girls, get laid, and enjoy it. Go start a business, make a bunch of money and enjoy it. Go jerk off and enjoy it.

There is nothing to else to do in life but enjoy it. Drop the philosophy and start the enjoying. The only reason to do philosophy is if you enjoy it.

Yeah, that's kinda my whole point here.  What Turquoise does is really no different to what Red does.  At all stages, all there is is the same thing.  Murder and doing philosophy aren't any different.  A philosopher hasn't transcended anything, he's just surviving boredom, rather than surviving a need for food/money.  No matter how far you evolve, it's all the same.

Edited June 15, 2022 by thisintegrated

[thisintegrated]

1 hour ago, Spiral Wizard said:

I like this definition:

Survival is fear based

Creation is love based 

I believe that it is possible to become so conscious and loving as a human being that there is no fear left. 

I agree.  But once you love strongly enough, you just want to help others feel the same, and what you're doing there is trying to ensure the survival/proliferation of this thing called "love" that you're now identifying as.  So you're back to survival games.  

 

10 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

@thisintegrated The one that singlehandedly deleted Big 5 from relevancy and debunked all of modern psychology without any citations is asking for me to cite my sources . . . .

1. That wasn't my aim.  But the Big 5 got what was coming..

2. I hope you realize I'm joking half the time..

Edited June 15, 2022 by thisintegrated

[AtheisticNonduality]

38 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

2. I hope you realize I'm joking half the time..

No, I thought "Citations????" was completely seriously.

[amanen]

There is play and fun which are things we do not do for the sake of survival but for the sake of enjoying the act itself.

Many of these things are even anti survival

Then there is love, which again is anti survival, where you couldn't give a damn about whether you will survive later or not

[Weltesche]

My realization was that everything has an opposite pole. Always two extremes that are inseparable. Like warm and cold, light and dark, life and death. Always a positively valued and a negatively valued side. For me, the opposite pole to survival is love. And when you come to the point where you realize that it goes on and on, that God cannot die, then you live the extreme love that permeates everything. Imagine having that feeling permanently, as if you were newly in love. Then does it really matter if there is something else? Do you still want more? Or do you just enjoy it?

[thisintegrated]

8 hours ago, Weltesche said:

My realization was that everything has an opposite pole. Always two extremes that are inseparable. Like warm and cold, light and dark, life and death. Always a positively valued and a negatively valued side. For me, the opposite pole to survival is love. And when you come to the point where you realize that it goes on and on, that God cannot die, then you live the extreme love that permeates everything. Imagine having that feeling permanently, as if you were newly in love. Then does it really matter if there is something else? Do you still want more? Or do you just enjoy it?

Good thoughts.

 

11 hours ago, Benton said:

@thisintegrated Hahaha

Survival is Love. But Love absolutely transcends survival.

Love isn’t a thing. It is reality. And it’s completely Selfless. No-thing. Love for Loves sake. It doesn’t need anything to be.

Perhaps love is an exception?

But to love is to love x.  If you ever love x, you're loving a finite/temporary thing.  All love is temporary, but love, as an abstract concept, is permanent?.  Though, if you ever do love, then that's temporary and relies on survival??

 

11 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

No, I thought "Citations????" was completely seriously.

I will need proof that this is, indeed, what you thought at the time?

 

jk

You must learn the ways of the ENTP??

 

 

@Leo Gura

I've worked it out.  Well, I randomly got an insight on this, and now am trying to remember it.

Survival = existence.  We will never transcend survival, no matter what, as survival is existence.  There will never be anything that isn't survival based.

What matters is your focus.  You will never transcend the need for survival, but you can transcend your focus on surviving.

 

There are 2 levels of survival to overcome.  Physical survival, and the genetic predisposition for a desire to survive.  Tier 2s have learned to let go of the thinking-style / cognitive-tendencies which work in the service of their physical survival needs.  However, they've still not dropped the genetic programming which compels them to seek out survival-based activities, such as chasing-sex/money, playing competitive games, etc.  Perhaps this is what Tier 3 could be defined as.

 

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by thisintegrated

[Weltesche]

@thisintegrated this would mean, we will never know about tier 3 until we reach it. Because to reach it you need to leave the world, the existence, the illusion.

[thisintegrated]

30 minutes ago, Weltesche said:

@thisintegrated this would mean, we will never know about tier 3 until we reach it. Because to reach it you need to leave the world, the existence, the illusion.

Well the reason we don't use "Coral" in Spiral Dynamics is because there exist no examples of Coral.  We need enough examples to form stereotypes so we can describe what a stage is known for.  Tier 3 has the same issue, but as it's not a stage we don't need such specific stereotypes, only a fundamentally different mode of operation, which automatically comes to everyone once advanced enough.  

To reach it we wouldn't need to leave the world.  It's a model of human consciousness evolution, after all.  But what it would take is still be pretty extreme.  We'll have to genetically enhance humans to suit our post-survival needs.  It's inevitable, and will happen no matter what, but it could take a century or two.  We won't see Tier 3 within our lifetime.

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by thisintegrated

[SgtPepper]

To be who we are.

The creating, the suffering, the survival that helps us be who we are.

[Razard86]

On 6/14/2022 at 9:59 PM, SourceCodo said:

What exactly is your point? 

Like what's your ask here? More murder because we're animals?? Hope not. 

I get his point, he is basically saying life has the same theme. Basically when you look at life its all a game. He is likening it to a survival game. So because he is using that lens he can liken everything to survival. I can't argue that the modern world and premodern world pretty much mirror themselves in this aspect. I also cannot say in a sense that he is wrong. 

But the reason the self-love lens works the best is because it is backed by the foundation of source. Looking at life from a survival lens is how an ego would look at it. If you look at it from a self-love perspective you wouldn't see it like that. Its just another way to look at it. 

I'm starting to see the futility of even disagreeing with people now a days lol because everything is just a perspective. I do believe the Self- Love perspective is the highest perspective because it is the perspective of Infinity but I also realize....that infinity would embrace all perspectives as all the possible expressions of itself. Think of each perspective like a child, it claims all its children. No matter how wayward they are lol. 

[Weltesche]

@diesintegriert what if you become so conscious abot the illusion, that you become able to stop it and see everything like it really is, what ever this might be, maybe nothing or a spiral of light energie in a black hole? Then there would be nothing to interact with no-one to tell about. You are not just one part of god, you are god. The only one. There is nothing more. Every existence was you playing with yourself. And maybe then you stop playing and find out that there is even more we could never even try to imagine the try to imagine.

[AtheisticNonduality]

@thisintegrated With the Wilber model, aspects of Tier 3 are there, if not entirely. Assuming the human brain is left untouched deep-structurally, there are more stages beyond Turquoise.

[thisintegrated]

9 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

@thisintegrated With the Wilber model, aspects of Tier 3 are there, if not entirely. Assuming the human brain is left untouched deep-structurally, there are more stages beyond Turquoise.

Are his ideas of T3 actually deserving of the T3 title?  Maybe they are, in which case what I was describing would be T4.

 

15 hours ago, Weltesche said:

@diesintegriert

lolwut

15 hours ago, Weltesche said:

what if you become so conscious abot the illusion, that you become able to stop it and see everything like it really is, what ever this might be, maybe nothing or a spiral of light energie in a black hole? Then there would be nothing to interact with no-one to tell about. You are not just one part of god, you are god. The only one. There is nothing more. Every existence was you playing with yourself. And maybe then you stop playing and find out that there is even more we could never even try to imagine the try to imagine.

Two possibilities here.

1. Manifest genetic enhancement within yourself.  I've heard of such cases before, and I guess it's a valid approach, but it's not just awareness.  It's a non-physical level science you're applying to the physical.  
2. Become so aware that you can disregard all laws of reality, and manifest anything at all.  No need for logic of science, just raw power.

[AtheisticNonduality]

2 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Are his ideas of T3 actually deserving of the T3 title?  Maybe they are, in which case what I was describing would be T4.

Above Eckhart Tolle levels of mysticism certainly. It's advanced by the top. T4 though would involve some modification, perhaps paranormal-seeming degrees of compassion or infinite-like applied intelligence. Once human genome editing is legalized it's basically all over, in one ignorant point of view. And then truthfully, alternatively, history goes on forever, until the climax when God is produced.