Kundalini yoga vs kriya yoga ?

[integration journey]

Does kriya yoga include kundalini practices or how do they compare ? 
which one of those do you find more useful or do they nicely synergize  together ? 
I’m just curious about the difference  between them. 
thank you 

[Oeaohoo]

Kundalini Yoga is any form of spiritual practice whose aim is union with God through the awakening of Kundalini, the coiled one at the base of spine who is the goddess Shakti. Kundalini can be very dangerous if one has not already attained the immutability and unshakeable stability of the masculine principle who in this context is the god Shiva. The intention of Kundalini Yoga is firstly to awaken this feminine radiance and then to facilitate its unfurling through the energy centres of the body until the two principles of Shiva and Shakti meet in blissful union at the Ajna-Chakra. Beyond this is the Sahasrara-Chakra or the Thousand-Petalled Lotus which however is not really part of the subtle body.

Kriya Yoga combines various forms of breath-work (pranayama), hand and body gestures (mudra) and chanting (mantra) to gradually divert and pacify the usual mental processes and attain mastery over the subtle body. Particular emphasis is sometimes put on the “breathless state” which occurs when one has attained sufficient control of one’s breathing to go without breath for a certain time.

It is worth bearing in mind in researching them that both forms of Yoga have been somewhat corrupted by interaction with the modern world. Kundalini Yoga in general discourse today refers to the teachings of the Sikh guru Yogi Bhajan, which are very much a personal interpolation based on earlier sources, whilst Kriya Yoga was popularised and dumbed down by Yogananda. I personally practised Yogi Bhajan’s Kundalini Yoga for a couple of years and found it to be very effective but quite destabilising.

In a way, the difference between them is like the difference between the “dry” and “wet” paths of alchemy. For example, the main type of breathing in Kundalini Yoga (the wet path) is the Breath of Fire, an intense and rapid breathing pattern, whereas Kriya Yoga (the dry path) seeks to gradually still the breathe to silence. Though they are somewhat antithetical in their application, the end goal is of course the same: the union of man with God.

If you were feeling brave and explorative you could try mixing them together, using Kundalini practices to awaken the divine fire of liberation and using Kriya to still the mind and master your mind and breathing. Just remember that you are playing with fire!

[Aimblack]

@Oeaohoo  How much preparation would you recommend for someone who is interested in kundalini yoga?

[Oeaohoo]

@Aimblack My sense is that, unfortunately, for most people today the only real option is to throw yourself in at the deep end and deal with whatever issues emerge as they do. Even if there were a hearty supply of fully-realised Gurus today offering initiation into the path of the Fire Snake, nobody would be willing to practice the kind of selfless commitment and radical dedication to another person that such a context demanded. I’m sorry if this sounds hopelessly nostalgic or like a naive and romanticised portrait of the past, but it is what I strongly believe to be the reality.

The trouble is that the practices of Kundalini Yoga are designed to heighten sensitivity and awaken within the body itself a liberating and burning fire of transcendence. Any remaining complexes or human attachments (samskaras) will be drastically inflated by this process, making them now much harder to overcome and much more dangerous. Remember that Kundalini and even the general Tantric model of the subtle body (Chakras, Ida and Pingala, the Nadis) were highly secret teachings.

I would say that anybody interested in Kundalini Yoga should not start the journey until they have a fairly steady understanding that they are living in a dream whose ultimate purpose is to awaken out of. They should be relatively stable and non-reactive with a meditative and contemplative temperament. Most importantly, they must understand that they are essentially doing when practising Kundalini Yoga is taking their ordinary experience and amplifying it exponentially. Everything which is ugly about you will also seek to be amplified! I hope I don’t sound melodramatic; in a way, these are just the requirements for engaging with any spiritual path.

I hope this answers your question! It is worth pointing out that my path has been rather heterodox and combined numerous different elements. Someone else on here might be able to speak more precisely about Kundalini specifically.

Personally, I had already been on the spiritual path for a few years and had a single awakening to God as Divine Love before I started practising Kundalini Yoga. It is only a vain personal digression but in a way my whole life felt like a preparation for the awakening of Kundalini. It is possible that the practitioner will be called to the practice when they are ready for it. For example, I have always liked music with an evocative and liberating character. This Sonata by my favourite composer Scriabin very much captures the feeling of Kundalini moving through the body: 

 

[Aimblack]

@Oeaohoo  Thanks for the honest and straight forward answer, I expected as much. The reason I asked in the first place was because through meditation I am now experiencing a build up of energy in my head, which becomes much more relaxed when I guide it from the top of my scull down my spine. I also experience a warm sensation along my spine when I meditate and thought I could use that for further growth.

[Oeaohoo]

@Aimblack That sounds like an interesting opportunity because it has emerged naturally through meditation as opposed to being forced through bodily practises. Given that it has emerged naturally it is quite possible that it will resolve itself naturally but it might be worth researching ways of using this energy for spiritual ends. I know, for example, that serious Kundalini practitioners seek to force this energy to explode beyond even the head into the infinite blissfulness of the Sahasrara-Chakra. Naturally, this has certain dangers from a human perspective!

That being said, it sounds like you did the right thing in guiding the energy back down the spine. Kundalini Yoga is based on the basic polarity of Shiva (the masculine principle) and Shakti (the feminine principle). What you are doing when you guide the energy back downwards is using the active Masculine principle to essentially “calm down” and ground the feminine Kundalini energy. It is perhaps mildly controversial to say but I would say that meditation is an essentially masculine activity facilitating detachment and self-overcoming; as such, it sounds like it has already helped you to control the emergence of this built-up energy.

Activities such as meditation which are based on becoming the witness of one’s experience and detaching from the eternal flux of ordinary reality can actually arouse Kundalini in themselves. To use a mundane example, it is like how a woman will be attracted to a man who is detached and doesn’t need her. The increasing lucidity and detachment which comes from meditative practice creates a sort of metaphysical polarity which stirs and arouses the feminine principle within oneself.

Incidentally, this is exactly why I originally noted that it is dangerous to engage in Kundalini practices when you are not grounded in a stabilising masculine energy. What happens to people who engage in this practice unpreparedly is that the feminine Kundalini energy forces it’s way up the spine and accumulates in the head which can cause extreme discomfort, and because they lack preparation they are unable to do anything about it and the effects can be disastrous.

This reminds me of something I forgot to mention above. It would be very useful for anyone working with Kundalini to have a good understanding of the principles of polarity and balance. This is actually an extremely rich and complex area because there are so many different levels and areas of life (and more-than-life!) to be harmonised simultaneously. It might sound a bit odd but I think for me it was useful that I had many years of experience as a musician before getting involved in Kundalini: after all, music is essentially composed of consonance and dissonance and tension and release, the task of the composer being to harmonise these into a beautiful whole.

Additionally, I think I might have overstated the difficulty of engaging safely in these practises today. In a way, the present time is a very opportune one. There is more information than ever readily available to anybody who needs it and residual spiritual influences are likely to guide the serious seeker towards the appropriate material for their growth. However, every so often you will come across somebody saying how Kundalini has ruined their lives so it is always best to proceed with caution.

[Aimblack]

9 hours ago, Oeaohoo said:

That sounds like an interesting opportunity because it has emerged naturally through meditation as opposed to being forced through bodily practises. Given that it has emerged naturally it is quite possible that it will resolve itself naturally but it might be worth researching ways of using this energy for spiritual ends. I know, for example, that serious Kundalini practitioners seek to force this energy to explode beyond even the head into the infinite blissfulness of the Sahasrara-Chakra. Naturally, this has certain dangers from a human perspective!

Yea, I'm probably not going to force that. I don't really want to destabilize, I'd prefer a much smoother and gradual advance.

Quote

That being said, it sounds like you did the right thing in guiding the energy back down the spine. Kundalini Yoga is based on the basic polarity of Shiva (the masculine principle) and Shakti (the feminine principle). What you are doing when you guide the energy back downwards is using the active Masculine principle to essentially “calm down” and ground the feminine Kundalini energy. It is perhaps mildly controversial to say but I would say that meditation is an essentially masculine activity facilitating detachment and self-overcoming; as such, it sounds like it has already helped you to control the emergence of this built-up energy.

But how is that possible? I didn't have a Kundalini awakening yet.

Quote

This reminds me of something I forgot to mention above. It would be very useful for anyone working with Kundalini to have a good understanding of the principles of polarity and balance. This is actually an extremely rich and complex area because there are so many different levels and areas of life (and more-than-life!) to be harmonised simultaneously. It might sound a bit odd but I think for me it was useful that I had many years of experience as a musician before getting involved in Kundalini: after all, music is essentially composed of consonance and dissonance and tension and release, the task of the composer being to harmonise these into a beautiful whole.

Funny you would say that I play the piano as a hobby and found itas grounding as meditation.

[Oeaohoo]

2 hours ago, Aimblack said:

But how is that possible? I didn't have a Kundalini awakening yet.

It sounds like you have aroused Kundalini somewhat but not so much as to stir up a Kundalini awakening.

It is worth bearing in mind that Kundalini and Shakti are just the way that one tradition refers to this energy; we are really just talking about the latent power of the Goddess within the body. It is always moving through you to some extent otherwise you would be dead or you would be some sort of pastiche James Bond Super-Man with no femininity at all! Even practises like meditation can amplify this energy.

In other traditions, it is like the Snake which enticed Eve (whose name literally means “Living”) and then Adam to be thrown out of Eden and thus thrust into the suffering and turmoil of mundane life (that is why it is sometimes called the “life-force”, and it is very significant that Gnosticism reinterpreted this myth so that the God of Eden Jehovah was actually an evil Demiurge whilst the Snake in the Garden was guiding them towards liberation and transcendence.) It is therefore also somewhat akin to the Holy Spirit in orthodox Christianity which is guiding people back to the real God. You can also see this symbology on Hermes’ Caduceus and even in Zarathustra’s two animals being the snake of chthonic wisdom and the eagle of proud freedom.

[Razard86]

18 hours ago, Aimblack said:

@Oeaohoo  Thanks for the honest and straight forward answer, I expected as much. The reason I asked in the first place was because through meditation I am now experiencing a build up of energy in my head, which becomes much more relaxed when I guide it from the top of my scull down my spine. I also experience a warm sensation along my spine when I meditate and thought I could use that for further growth.

This belief that the Kundalini energy is somehow dangerous has been overblown. I recently had a kundalini awakening and while it is certainly intense and can be painful depending on how many blockages you have it is no where near as scary as they make it seem. I will say you do have to go through the Dark Night of the Soul but its no different than what Psychedelics teach you. The theme is the same, can you relinquish control and trust the God within you. Can you face your deepest fear of annihilation and trust that you will be fine. I'm not saying its easy, but once you realize you are God....what is there to fear? It can be painful, but with the understanding that you are an infinite being that cannot be annihilated...again...what is there to fear? Trust your higher self and you will be fine. 

[Nilsi]

22 hours ago, Aimblack said:

@Oeaohoo  How much preparation would you recommend for someone who is interested in kundalini yoga?

Check out the book "Kundalini exposed" by SantataGamana. It explains the practice of Kundalini yoga step by step in a practical, no-bullshit way.

[Aimblack]

@OeaohooAlright thanks my man! 

@Razard86 I just want to be extra careful because the whole reason I'm doing this to eliminate suffering and not create more.

@Nilsi  I already have that book but as far as I am aware it deals mostly with the process of getting Kundalini to rise and not how to make sure that things don't go sideways.

[Oeaohoo]

On 15/06/2022 at 3:21 PM, Razard86 said:

This belief that the Kundalini energy is somehow dangerous has been overblown. I recently had a kundalini awakening and while it is certainly intense and can be painful depending on how many blockages you have it is no where near as scary as they make it seem.

Yes, I think this is true when Kundalini arises naturally on the spiritual path or when it is integrated within a safe context in which there is space to make the necessary changes that this new energy will force you to make. It is much less true, however, when it arises spontaneously/accidentally or when it has been aroused through physical practices without the necessary psychological and spiritual preparation.

There is the additional problem that people often don’t know what they are getting themselves into with the spiritual path. In my experience, it is very difficult to retrace your steps with Kundalini; like the flaming Cherubim which guard the doors back to Eden once the Snake has gotten Adam and Eve kicked out!

On 15/06/2022 at 3:21 PM, Razard86 said:

I will say you do have to go through the Dark Night of the Soul but its no different than what Psychedelics teach you. The theme is the same, can you relinquish control and trust the God within you. Can you face your deepest fear of annihilation and trust that you will be fine.

Fortunately I had already been through a dark night of the soul before getting involved with Kundalini practises. Even then, until we are fully awake there is always more self to die to! Yeah it’s very similar to psychedelics in that way.

I would disagree with one thing here: it isn’t necessarily as simple as trusting in the process. There are all sorts of physical, spiritual and even intellectual problems which can arise as Kundalini unfurls itself. Sometimes it can be hard to find the right advice for a given circumstance; then again, there are people with deep knowledge of this field around today. So long as one can sift through the corresponding accumulation of nonsense all-too-readily available today they’ll probably be fine.

On 15/06/2022 at 3:21 PM, Razard86 said:

I'm not saying its easy, but once you realize you are God....what is there to fear? It can be painful, but with the understanding that you are an infinite being that cannot be annihilated...again...what is there to fear? Trust your higher self and you will be fine. 

You’re an infinite being playing the character of a finite being and that character can very easily be annihilated. The problems with Kundalini that many people experience generally arise when these two come into conflict. Kundalini forces them to move towards the infinite but their finite being is not able to catch up with the process. This can be very dysfunctional.

Ultimately there is nothing to fear but relatively there is. Here, we are playing the game of relativity and it is better to play it well!

[Razard86]

41 minutes ago, Aimblack said:

@OeaohooAlright thanks my man! 

@Razard86 I just want to be extra careful because the whole reason I'm doing this to eliminate suffering and not create more.

@Nilsi  I already have that book but as far as I am aware it deals mostly with the process of getting Kundalini to rise and not how to make sure that things don't go sideways.

If you are trying to eliminate suffering that itself is a fear. Notice that. You don't try to eliminate anything. You accept the experience of life itself. The whole spiritual path is about learning to embrace the different experiences as they arise. Its also learning about how to navigate towards the ones you want which is creation. So navigate your path, and accept whatever comes along that path. Because each experience is impermanent and it too shall pass.

[Aimblack]

1 minute ago, Razard86 said:

If you are trying to eliminate suffering that itself is a fear. Notice that. You don't try to eliminate anything. You accept the experience of life itself. The whole spiritual path is about learning to embrace the different experiences as they arise. Its also learning about how to navigate towards the ones you want which is creation. So navigate your path, and accept whatever comes along that path. Because each experience is impermanent and it too shall pass.

Intellectually I get that and I agree but I'm just being honest where I'm at right now.

[Oeaohoo]

31 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

If you are trying to eliminate suffering that itself is a fear. Notice that. You don't try to eliminate anything. You accept the experience of life itself. The whole spiritual path is about learning to embrace the different experiences as they arise. Its also learning about how to navigate towards the ones you want which is creation. So navigate your path, and accept whatever comes along that path. Because each experience is impermanent and it too shall pass.

There seems to be a subtle contradiction in what you say here because the desire to eliminate suffering is natural to the experience of life itself. Accepting suffering is of course possible but it goes against the grain of nature, so if the aim is not to try to eliminate anything why eliminate the intention to avoid suffering? Suffering can be used for liberating purposes but in many cases the intention to avoid suffering is entirely spiritually appropriate; after all, the whole point of Buddhism is to depart from the world of dukkha (suffering)!

[Dumuzzi]

I haven't done either of them myself (I have my own, unique practice), but from feedback from others, it seems all forms of yoga have the same aim, union with the divine (which is what yoga means). There are different paths to get there, Kriya is a safer and gentler path, Kundalini Yoga is a quicker, but also more forceful and dangerous path.

However, the issue with Kundalini Yoga is that practically all classes and studios today are associated with the fake and abusive, self-styled "Guru" Yogi Bhajan. He bastardized legitimate, often tantric methods to force a Kundalini Awakening, without insisting on the associated grounding and preparation, so I would consider this path very dangerous, literally playing with fire. Under normal circumstances, you should only learn this from someone who has gone through the process themselves, otherwise it's just the blind leading the blind. Very rarely will you meet a Kundalini Yoga teacher who has any direct experience with Kundalini and will know what to do if things don't go to plan.

This is because Kundalini is not merely an energy like prana or chi. Shakti is akin to the Holy Spirit in Christianity or the Shekinah in Judaism. The only real way to achieve a full Kundalini awakening is through divine grace, an act of Shaktipat, either extended by a teacher who is awakened himself, or by the Goddess Herself, directly. 

People who practice various methods to awaken Kundalini will usually only achieve a partial rising, absent an act of divine grace. That is likely to cause all sorts of problems, the examples of which are numerous.

[Oeaohoo]

@Dumuzzi Amen to all of that! Nice to see that someone else has come to similar conclusions.