I am absolutely amazed by this couple

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

I don't think this is true. A low neurotic non-angry rational man can positively make me melt. The problem is they are very rare. 

Oh, there is no doubt he will make you melt. But that will not create a conscious communication or relationship. And you do not want him to treat you rationally, you want him to be rational. Which is of course what the feminine wants from the masculine because the feminine lacks it. But the feminine will not allow itself to become rationalized and the feminine will not behave rationally when triggered.

The problem is that conscious communication is biased towards the rational in order to function. It will get distrupted by emotional upheaval which the feminine is prone to.

Put simply, you cannot have a conscious communication with an enraged ax murderer.

Conscious communication has some significant prerequisites. Hence the "train wreck".

[Proserpina]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Oh, there is no doubt he will make you melt. But that will not create a conscious communication or relationship. And you do not want him to treat you rationally, you want him to be rational. Which is of course what the feminine wants from the masculine because the feminine lacks it. But the feminine will not allow itself become rationalized.

When I met a 'man' like this, its like the totality of my being woke up and understood what it meant to be a mature woman. A rational man can evoke that from a woman. I wanted to be of service and all my values began to shift. That's what it means to melt. But again it's so rare and has to be persistent. The Taming of the Shrew. 

[hoodrow trillson]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not a false dichotomy, it's a very important point to keep in mind when dealing with women.

God help the poor man who tries to treat his woman in a rational manner. He will be punished mercilessly.

A huge issue with conscious communication is that it has to be symmetrical, but a masculine/feminine relationship is asymmetrical. Bridging that chasm will be the real challenge.

This is why being counter-intuitive in this life is KING

 

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

When I met a 'man' like this, its like the totality of my being woke up and understood what it meant to be a mature woman. A rational man can evoke that from a woman. I wanted to be of service and all my values began to shift. That's what it means to melt. But again it's so rare and has to be persistent. The Taming of the Shrew. 

What you're swooning over is masculine containment. Every feminine girl craves that. But that does not make the girl any more reasonable.

The greater the masculine/feminine polarity in a relationship the hotter it will be but also the more difficult conscious communication will be.

Most people will eagerly sacrifice consciousness and health to get that burst of hottness. And then it all goes to shit and spirals out of control. Hot but totally dysfunctional and unsustainable.

[Razard86]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What you're swooning over is masculine containment. Every feminine girl craves that. But that does not make the girl any more reasonable.

The greater the masculine/feminine polarity in a relationship the hotter it will be but also the more difficult conscious communication will be.

Most people will eagerly sacrifice consciousness and health to get that burst of hottness. And then it all goes to shit and spirals out of control. Hot but totally dysfunctional and unsustainable.

What Leo is saying in simple terms. The Masculine and Feminine do not understand each other but they are drawn to each other. For that relationship to last long term both partners need to become balanced and develop the opposite side. So woman need to integrate their masculine and men need to integrate their feminine. When this happens true honest communication can happen because the barriers have been dispelled since both parts are integrated.

The most common complaint between men and woman is this. Man "She doesn't make sense." She is too emotional. She complains too much about her feelings.

The most common complaint that women make. "

He doesn't care about my feelings." He is always trying to make these so logical. He is always trying to control me. He talks to me like I'm stupid.

The Masculine and Feminine have two different perspectives and thus two different communication styles. Unless you make an effort to understand the perspective of both...they won't make sense to you. Leo did two videos that talk about each perspective. 

I think he did a good job. 

 

[Razard86]

4 hours ago, aurum said:

Beautiful, just subbed her channel.

This is the kind of relationship and communication I’m looking for these days. I don’t know if I’m ready, but I know I’ve done significant work on myself and I’d like to give it my best.

You're ready the fact that you desire this means you are ready. Its not easy but the desire is proof that you are willing to take on the challenge. You didn't watch that video by accident and you didn't make this post by accident. Its what you want, and you can have it. Put that intention out there and believe it will come and it will. But be ready for the most intense relationship you will ever have.

[integral]

I've only been able to give a woman the 100% masculine containment honeymoon fantasy for about 4 months, that's my record. Then they resize I'm not perfect and they still need to breath on there own lol. Then its a more realistic masculine containment bundle. 

I smell a business opportunity. Masculine Containment Honeymoon Deluxe Package Vacation Resort. Containment Gigolos Deep Healing

Edited June 12, 2022 by integral

[somegirl]

45 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Lol are you serious? Do you know who that guy is? That is David DeAngelo!! He is a relationship guru who spent like 10 years of his life mastering his masculine and feminine side and studying the dance of the female male relationship. Do you know how incredibly rare a guy like he is? He also was mature enough and patient enough to figure out what woman he could connect with. 

David is a true rare man who went on a journey to shape himself into the man that woman want, while also finding the woman he wanted as well.

What do you mean am I serious, what did I even say? Lol 

So what? I don't freaking care if those guys are rare. The better we feel when we find them, obviously. How can we get good things in life if we believe we cannot achieve them in a million years? How can we hope for a better life and live to our greatest potential if we believe that it's almost impossible?  Where the magic in that? We just sabotage ourselves before we even begin.

[soos_mite_ah]

51 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

t's not a false dichotomy, it's a very important point to keep in mind when dealing with women.

God help the poor man who tries to treat his woman in a rational manner. He will be punished mercilessly.

How do you describe treating someone in a rational manner? 

[Insane butterfly]

@somegirl

A small story for you. 

One couple.  10 years of marriage. 

For 10 years after the sandwich he was making he was letting all the stuff in the kitchen. She was complaining that she has to clean and pick up the stuff every single time. He was not learning. This fight was bringing more in the surface!

Being entitled that she deserves something better she through him out of the house, happy that she get rid of somebody who doesn't understand her! 

After celebrating with the girlfriends her brakeup, she turns home at night totally drunk, opens the door, stepping on a shoe falling on the table next to her and braking her neck! 

In the hospital when the doctors told her that she is going to take a shit in a bag for the rest of her life she realized that, that night of the accident was the first time he wasn't home!

He was picking up her shoes from the floor for 10 years straight... every single time without complaining because he loved her! 

 

You get it?

All these "yes my love" " I love your sadness" and so on is Horseshit! Ask this idiot how much sadness he can handle for the next 30 40 years. 

Mirror your partner as much as you can. See all his faults in your mirror and fix yourself but at the same time don't get lost in it, be kind to yourself too as much as you want him to be kind to you. If he is not kind to you be carefull before you judge him because you might secretly like it, see very deep in your mirror how kind you are to yourself first. This is dancing!

btw. People hate authenticity, they envy it if they cannot reach it.  

[somegirl]

52 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not a false dichotomy, it's a very important point to keep in mind when dealing with women.

God help the poor man who tries to treat his woman in a rational manner. He will be punished mercilessly.

But guys are emotional as well! How is that not obvious? They just hide their emotions because they are told they shouldn't show thise because it makes them "less masculine" or whatever.

Being emotional is universal human thing that has nothing to do with gender.

 

[Razard86]

8 minutes ago, somegirl said:

What do you mean am I serious, what did I even say? Lol 

So what? I don't freaking care if those guys are rare. The better we feel when we find them, obviously. How can we get good things in life if we believe we cannot achieve them in a million years? How can we hope for a better life and live to our greatest potential if we believe that it's almost impossible?  Where the magic in that? We just sabotage ourselves before we even begin.

You took the serious part too serious, lol think of it as a reaction. Also its not about finding them, its about being them yourself. You need to be the feminine counterpart first before you can find and maintain a relationship with the masculine counterpart. So let me ask you....how well do you understand the masculine? How well have you incorporated it into your psyche? 

Are you able to be detached when necessary? Brutal? Are you able to rationalize survival and delay gratification? I'm not saying this to make it seem impossible but it is something that is important. And here is the kicker, are you able to tolerate someone giving you their raw emotion and accepting it and not reacting to it emotionally? You see many women want a man to be their container, to be their rock. But if a woman cannot develop that aspect within her, her man will never be able to honestly tell you how he feels. This is why most men lie to women/hide their feelings.

[somegirl]

13 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Also its not about finding them, its about being them yourself. You need to be the feminine counterpart first before you can find and maintain a relationship with the masculine counterpart. So let me ask you....how well do you understand the masculine? How well have you incorporated it into your psyche? 

Are you able to be detached when necessary? Brutal? Are you able to rationalize survival and delay gratification? I'm not saying this to make it seem impossible but it is something that is important. And here is the kicker, are you able to tolerate someone giving you their raw emotion and accepting it and not reacting to it emotionally? You see many women want a man to be their container, to be their rock. But if a woman cannot develop that aspect within her, her man will never be able to honestly tell you how he feels. This is why most men lie to women/hide their feelings.

I understand what you're saying. And it's true you have to first become a person who will be perfect much for such extraordinary partner. Couldn't agree more.

However, I'm not claiming I am that person right now. I definitely cannot handle everything you asked above at my current state of development.

I'm using this video as a reference of what is possible in this life. I'm just so inspired, hopeful and grateful when I see examples like this.

It's like God telling me "Yes, if you put in work, you might get this". 

I just want to use this to set intention on what I want in this life. I don't even like Eben and Annie's interaction in its entirety in this video. But an idea of being so open, to not hide anything, to feel safe enough to tell even the smallest emotional sensation you feel without feeling threatened is so... Wow. What a refreshing sight to see. 

Edited June 12, 2022 by somegirl

[Proserpina]

12 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

And here is the kicker, are you able to tolerate someone giving you their raw emotion and accepting it and not reacting to it emotionally? You see many women want a man to be their container, to be their rock. But if a woman cannot develop that aspect within her, her man will never be able to honestly tell you how he feels. This is why most men lie to women/hide their feelings.

The 'man' I spoke to,  that changed me through his rationality was not afraid to be emotional and feminine.  That's a part of being rational! The ability to be authentic and true while stepping back with low neuroticism when I would act inappropriately,  that's being rational. That resulted in a permanent shift in me. 

I truly understood then what it meant for the masculine to lead and the feminine to follow.  Most of the masculine already has low neuroticism developed. The masculine is like the sun and the feminine is the moon, she reflects the sun,  as Elliot Hulse states. She is molded. 

Edited June 12, 2022 by Proserpina

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, soos_mite_ah said:

How do you describe treating someone in a rational manner? 

The way guys treat guys and the way girls would not accept guys treating them.

In essence, not giving a damn about your precious feelings.

1 hour ago, somegirl said:

But guys are emotional as well! How is that not obvious? They just hide their emotions because they are told they shouldn't show thise because it makes them "less masculine" or whatever.

Being emotional is universal human thing that has nothing to do with gender.

Of course guys are emotional and often irrational. But you girls have cornered the market on that

It's not black and white. These are general trends.

Yes, being overly emotional does make a man less masculine. This doesn't mean the man cannot be emotional at times, in extreme situations. But overall a man should be icy and not give a fuck. Bus ran over your dog? Tough, let's move on to more important things. This is how a strong man must operate to get shit done in the world. You may not like it, but you also crave the results it delivers and the containment it confers.

You're simply not going to be attracted to a man who's more emotional and whiny than you are because such a man is a liability to your survival and the survival of your tribe.

[soos_mite_ah]

12 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The way guys treat guys and the way girls would not accept guys treating them.

Can you expand on this more? 

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

In essence, not giving a damn about your precious feelings.

Don't you think that also harms male relationships, platonic or otherwise? Because to me, a lack of empathy and a lack of rationality go hand in hand. Empathy is a rational response because it yields to productive, healthy, and fulfilling interactions. 

[puporing]

34 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course guys are emotional and often irrational. But you girls have cornered the market on that

It's not black and white. These are general trends.

I seem to experience the opposite frequently .

There's the being emotional in the right times/being vulnerable for connection, which is strength in its own way when not overly indulged upon..(it's like psychedelics.. you build tolerance if taking it too often); then there's the always needing to be soothed and validated (which I see alot of guys around me do more than they are willing to admit..).

I guess how I experience the two genders is that there are just a lot of emotionally needy people in general who need more healing before they can offer a lot of value to a partner, friend, etc. But it is also counterintuitively through those kinds of connections that one finds healing.

Edited June 13, 2022 by puporing

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Can you expand on this more? 

I don't know how to describe it exactly. Think of frat boy culture or military culture. There's little tolerance for emotions and whining. You are expected to suck it up and not be a pussy or gay. You're not given the luxury to cry over your problems, you must deliver solutions.

You can say this is toxic, but it delivers solutions.

Sometimes your feelings just shouldn't matter.

Quote

Don't you think that also harms male relationships, platonic or otherwise? Because to me, a lack of empathy and a lack of rationality go hand in hand. Empathy is a rational response because it yields to productive, healthy, and fulfilling interactions. 

1) There are trade-offs to it. Nothing here is all positive or all negative. It can harm but it can also create. A sociopath can be very effective and very attractive.

2) Empathy is not all positive. It has downsides when you need to get shit done. Relationships are not the only factor in survival. You girls are overly focused on relationships to the point of overlooking other important domains of life and survival. Because you tend to outsource that dirty work to men.

When the need comes to kill some people, empathy and emotionality is not a virtue.

[Proserpina]

48 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The way guys treat guys and the way girls would not accept guys treating them.

In essence, not giving a damn about your precious feelings.

Of course guys are emotional and often irrational. But you girls have cornered the market on that

It's not black and white. These are general trends.

Yes, being overly emotional does make a man less masculine. This doesn't mean the man cannot be emotional at times, in extreme situations. But overall a man should be icy and not give a fuck. Bus ran over your dog? Tough, let's move on to more important things. This is how a strong man must operate to get shit done in the world. You may not like it, but you also crave the results it delivers and the containment it confers.

You're simply not going to be attracted to a man who's more emotional and whiny than you are because such a man is a liability to your survival and the survival of your tribe.

Extreme attraction (chemicals opening doors, awakening) mixed with that solution orientation, combined with a conscious masculine and a feminine who trusts him with her life and willing to follow is powerful.  The moon reflecting the sun.

Difficult to find that attraction though since a conscious ultra masculine is rare.  

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

Extreme attraction (chemicals opening doors, awakening) mixed with that solution orientation, combined with a conscious masculine and a feminine who trusts him with her life and willing to follow is powerful.  The moon reflecting the sun.

Yes, of course. That's the ideal peak.

Quote

Difficult to find that attraction though since a conscious ultra masculine is rare.  

Yes, which is why I said that you cannot do such a relationship as in the video above with 99.99% of people.

Conscious ultra masculine is as rare as conscious ultra feminine. Because conscious humans are rare, period.