Definition of mental masturbation

[Kksd74628]

Many people on this forum have wrong picture of what mental masturbation is; It is not same as healthy contemplation and coming up with understanding or useful ideas. Mental masturbation is theorizing about something which is possible to confirm through direct experience including all realizations like no-self, no-gravity and no-past nor future. All discussions about aliens or dmt entities are useless if you don't ever face them and if you would face them then discussion are they real would lose its meaning.

What Leo and moderators are trying to tell you when they warn you and lock your thread for mental masturbation is that your contemplation has too many assumptions or the logic you are using is not good enough to get right conclusions. The thing that isn't told to you is that you are too closed minded and not logical enough to come up with insights by yourself and that's why you should first watch high quality videos or do some spiritual practices so you have proper ground so you don't build shaky worldview.

It's another way to inform you that you are getting lost in your thoughts and none of that is making any sense. Every great system is built so it allows itself to grow and if you want to participate on that then treat this forum like a school. Don't argue too much against the teaching but preferably try to see why the other one has the perspective that (s)he currently lives with. That is called as builing bridges between different perspectives and that helps to avoid fights and also it heightens your own perspective.

Lastly, if you want to learn good contemplation then pick some word from Leo´s videos and try to define it and then watch the video and see if your conclusion is matching with it. Also ask other forum members that is that what you got right. Because we are doing this work together why wouldn't we try to grow our consciousness cooperatively. So if possible try to post something that you haven't seen on the forum before or answer to already existing thread. Game is not called as who was right first, but who ends up being right.

Thanks for reading.

-joNi-

[Vincent S]

Great post!

Trap number two would be Parroting. Which is just a followup after the mental masturbation phase.

The key is to find your own Authentic Path and harnessing what is Absolutely True for you, even beyond the you, you think you are. 

[Proserpina]

Sometimes wading through the crap in your mind can turn up key insights or near key insights. You'll also be more likely to understand a key insight from spiritual teachers/ philosophers from your own experience rather than heresay. I don't worry about if my contemplations in my journal are crap or illogical.  

Edited June 11, 2022 by Proserpina

[Kksd74628]

@Vincent S @Proserpina

Yeah, if you parrot and don't think for yourself you'll never understand thing so clearly as it could and that leaves possibility for misunderstanding and the source being wrong. Still thinking only for yourself can be problematic, because you can come up with "insight", but all insights you have will feel correct from your own perspective and that's the difficulty of whole thing. Also Proserpina if what you do feels right for you then continue it. All I was just trying to say was that if you want to speed up your progress then not stepping to all traps can be benefical.

Example of wrong insight (conclusion)

A: Evilness is doing morally wrongly (that's wrong, btw).

B: Many people do things morally wrongly.

C: There are many evils.

Point of this analogy was to show that even if that There are many evils insight feels correct to you it isn't still correct conclusion, because whole contemplation failed at the start. That's why you need to start contemplation from right insights or otherwise you build house of cards which will collapse sooner or later. So it's question of do you want to build many house of cards or couple of made from good pieces. So all that is needed is meta-awarness that your perspective is also a perspective.

[Vincent S]

27 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

Yeah, if you parrot and don't think for yourself you'll never understand thing so clearly as it could and that leaves possibility for misunderstanding and the source being wrong. Still thinking only for yourself can be problematic, because you can come up with "insight", but all insights you have will feel correct from your own perspective and that's the difficulty of whole thing.

Thanks for sharing this. And this one is for you joNi.

[Kksd74628]

@Vincent S

Oh, anytime bro! It's better to see communication like you both try to find out why you two have different perspectives and why one or both you don't see the perspective of another one. So it's collaboration work to build bridge between worldviews and trying to make it work to both directions. Helping is just that someone wanted to join in to solve another one's puzzle in his/her life or that they invited you beforehand. Letting yourself to be helped is another skill to be learnt as well.

[Vincent S]

55 minutes ago, Kksd74628 said:

@Vincent S

Oh, anytime bro! It's better to see communication like you both try to find out why you two have different perspectives and why one or both you don't see the perspective of another one. So it's collaboration work to build bridge between worldviews and trying to make it work to both directions. Helping is just that someone wanted to join in to solve another one's puzzle in his/her life or that they invited you beforehand. Letting yourself to be helped is another skill to be learnt as well.

???

[RMQualtrough]

7 hours ago, Vincent S said:

Trap number two would be Parroting.

This in particular annoys me. "Oh Leo I watched you talk about God and I awoke to the fact I'm absolute Love and Truth!"

I've always been annoyed by blind following... I don't see why people like that don't just pick up a copy of the Bible. You'd get community with church at least... Maybe get to attend some of their fates and raffles... Maybe get to eat some of the cakes the olds make and win yourself a bottle of cheap wine...

[Kksd74628]

@RMQualtrough

I've to defend this particular case, because who said that awakening cannot be produced by radical shift in how you think about world. Still if I'd need to guess I'm 99,9 % that this didn't happen and that specific person had profound understanding to the nature of god and just misinterprets that as an awakening. As I spoke about bridges, that should be the goal and not call another one as evil, because that creates separation and thing you can't love.

This is a nasty trap to always need an enemy that you can laugh to, but at the same time I understand that this produces sense of togetherness. I've falled in this trap many times, but the more I studied spiral dynamics and other perspectives less I judged people. I saw that one thing I really like to do is to understand others and the more absurd that perspective sounds to me the more I know I've to learn. 

[RMQualtrough]

@Kksd74628 I don't think Leo tells people to use drugs just for the fun of it, if he could just speak a few words and people are gonna "awaken" I think he'd do that instead.

I've never replicated anything near the shift in perception from the drug trip which is the cause of me even being here. And I used strong psychedelics a lot... I have some foundation to reflect on, I recorded most all of my own experiences. I don't think you can hear words and be shifted like that or even know what that shift is like.

I don't myself really recall that shift now. I had to stop using psychedelics after developing legit actual PTSD from them, so I'm now far removed from the direct experience. Some elements stick, and can't really be denied or forgotten. It's important to have that, so you can relate your own experience to what a book or guru says, and know if it is legit or bullshit... The main benefit of videos and books is that they can help you to better understand in rational human language what you yourself experienced.

[Kksd74628]

@RMQualtrough

The point was that everything is possible, but how unlikely something is, is another discussion. There is nothing stopping you from having profound realizations and mystical experiences just from listening to someone, but my bet is that this didn't happen in this specific case taking consideration his other posts and way of talking overall. What may happen to someone may not happen to other, but that doesn't prove that it couldn't happen for anyone.

As I said in the past I felt like I'd start tripping from nowhere after my first psychedelic trip and that's how powerful your mind can be. That didn't happen, because I just ignored it, but would that have happened I don't know. Certainly it is possible tho. When you clear your mind from all assumptions and beliefs your mind becomes more and more receptive to new experiences with less effort. Also see that assumption is not black and white switch, but more like a knob which has different values. That being said I guess you've work to do.

[Razard86]

12 hours ago, Vincent S said:

Great post!

Trap number two would be Parroting. Which is just a followup after the mental masturbation phase.

The key is to find your own Authentic Path and harnessing what is Absolutely True for you, even beyond the you, you think you are. 

Well there is nothing new under the sun. Pretty much whatever we discuss has been discussed before, we just bring a different perspective to it. 

[Vincent S]

2 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

Well there is nothing new under the sun. Pretty much whatever we discuss has been discussed before, we just bring a different perspective to it. 

Just like you did now. A new perspective