Damage caused by spiritual content consumed by adolescents

[Bobby_2021]

46 minutes ago, Oeaohoo said:

I would even say Purple! People generally have a very disenchanted worldview today.

Yes, this world needs a good ol’ fashioned conquering!

 sheeh didn't know that.

Willalso look forward to embody purple and beige from now on. ???

27 minutes ago, Girzo said:

You are from India and you have "toxic wokeness" at the University? Surprised. Must be some elite one.

In Poland we have handfuls of boomers and mostly millenials as faculty workers. Woke culture is nowhere to be found, I would welcome it with open arms.

I was talking about the situation in US and Europe.

But let me tell you we here in India is catching up real fast. There is no escape from their narrative, no matter how hard you work.

It's especially shitty situation here in India, since there is not even a real orange culture. These "social" scientists are pushing green in a culture that didn't even experience the benifits of orange unlike the west. So it's particularly worse here in India.

It's mostly filled with upper class girls crying that they are oppressed because they don't have a job after studying for years in some English or some arts subjects. 

I am in a STEM bubble in the most progressive part of the country, so I might not represent India well. But they do a good job in copying the west pretty well.

It's not to say that I completely love the blue/orange culture as well. But it still has ton of tangible benifits from a survival point of view compared to hippy green culture. 

[Dryas]

Well, I found this content at 15 (18 now) and I think it fucked me in some ways. it's not like I've been psychologically scarred or anything even close to that but just that I wish I found about this stuff a little later in life. Pros and cons to everything, though.

 

[Girzo]

Just now, Bobby_2021 said:

I was talking about the situation in US and Europe.

Then please don't. You don't know how it is there. And it's totally not how the narration on the Internet goes.

Academic workers are usually one of the most grounded people I know in life.

But yeah, I would take ungrounded woke people over the catholic, "it-was-good-to-beat-the-kids", "and-it-was-also-very-good-to-make-sexist-jokes" old professor bommer fart types that we have to deal with in reality. They are the real issue, both from looking through stage Orange and stage Green glasses. But it's not happening.

It would be actually cool if universities were full of people like Vandana Shiva. I think she is the closest that India has to offer in terms of "woke professor" type of a scientist and she is famous worldwide. Have you read anything by her?

[Oeaohoo]

3 hours ago, Girzo said:

Then please don't. You don't know how it is there. And it's totally not how the narration on the Internet goes.

This is probably where is important to distinguish between Eastern and Western Europe. I am from the UK and can very much confirm what Bobby_2021 says. Most universities in the UK were created during the industrial period: they have gone from being a factory of workers to a factory for the broke and woke army! I can’t tell you what a disaster UK universities have become: it is a sick joke, a total parody and perversion of education. Of course, France - the home of le nonséns de la postmodérnisme - is even worse and other Western European countries are following the same track. I understand that parts of Eastern Europe are somewhat “lagging behind” but I’m sure they will “catch up” sooner or later! I have noticed though that early Stage Yellow seems to be emergent particularly in the Nordic countries and the Netherlands and many of the most advanced thinkers in Europe over the last few centuries originated from Basel in Switzerland.

3 hours ago, Girzo said:

Academic workers are usually one of the most grounded people I know in life.

But yeah, I would take ungrounded woke people over the catholic, "it-was-good-to-beat-the-kids", "and-it-was-also-very-good-to-make-sexist-jokes" old professor bommer fart types that we have to deal with in reality. They are the real issue, both from looking through stage Orange and stage Green glasses. But it's not happening.

Yes academics can be quite grounded because the university provides with a safe context in which to apply themselves creatively. Society at large has stopped providing this so many people outside of university today lack this basic sense of containment. The only real option today open to those for whom such institutions could only be a stifling limitation is to create such a context for oneself.

The Boomers are the ultimate degenerescence of Stage Blue and there is a lot of Orange in them too. Real Stage Blue doesn’t make silly jokes about women in the kitchen and so on, it appreciates and respects women in their proper place in the hierarchy of human existence. There were many highly respected women in the Catholic hierarchy, for example. They are certainly one of the real issues but my guess is that they will be dead soon; then you might have some new real issues to deal with!

[Philipp]

As a last comment, I want to add, that when you are nearing yellow at an early age (or came extensively in contact with this type of thinking) choosing a degree in University becomes quite difficult. Personally I had the feeling that I was extremely interested in everything and in the interconnectedness of everything. I could have played a videogame and suddendly learned something about politics from it. Knowledge and insights just seems to flow so seemingly across fields and degrees and could not be contained anymore. Choosing one direction just seems very limiting. Especially if you have the false belief, that you will have to work in the field you study for the rest of your life, this choice becomes excruciating. And doesn't reflect at all the type of thinking you have  and want to show. Also interested in the meta perspective of things, epistemological deficiencies of my first field of study were painfully obvious (really discouraging me to continue further). Really curious if others felt to be nearing stage yellow very early and how it affected them, especially in regards to university.

@Oeaohoo Given this problem I experienced. I wanted to ask you which stage yellow universities /degrees you know about. This would actually be a very useful information to gather and have.

Stage yellow thinking can also become problematic at an early age, not only stage turquois. Both are depressingly hard to get recognition for, and if so not at the entry ports of society. 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Philipp

[Oeaohoo]

@Philipp Yes I relate to what you say. I am 24 now, I was definitely not solid Yellow (I don’t believe in Spiral Progress but it is fine for this sort of communication) at 20 as I had and still have certain unresolved tendencies in most of the earlier stages but I have always tended towards holism and systems thinking. Incidentally, I was drawn to Nietzsche during these years and in this regard because, though he was not a solidly Stage Yellow thinker, he has an intense disdain for all forms of duality in the practical domain: between work and play, thought and act, cause and effect, and so on.

As far as Stage Yellow university programs are concerned, I’m afraid I cannot be too specific as I feel a deep disdain for modern academia. I have just noticed through mostly reading and occasionally listening to podcasts (for example, the podcast Hermitix often has Yellow-level thinkers on it) that a few of the most discerning and insightful people within the academic realm are increasingly seeing the shortcomings of even Stage Green thinking. For example, I recently read about an academic publication called Claiming Knowledge: Strategies of Epistemology from Theosophy to the New Age which sounds like a very Stage Yellow approach to the history of religion.

I have also noticed that rejected elements of Stage Blue are being reevaluated within academia from a higher context: certain universities now seem to be somewhat open to the study of esoteric religious doctrines such as Western Esotericism which was introduced by Dame Francis Yates; early prototypes of systems thinking like Oswald Spengler (author of The Decline of the West, an attempt at a metaphysics of history which tries to formulate a model of human civilisation) and Mircea Eliade (author of A History of Religious Ideas) who have been rejected from the history of ideas because of their very vague and in fact mostly negative relation to right-wing movements are getting renewed attention; there is a stronger emphasis in modern academia on an interdisciplinary approach and many academics seem to be realising that deconstruction can only take you so far.

Other people on here can probably tell you more about Stage Yellow thinkers within academic science, neurology and the study of consciousness, artificial intelligence and things like that. However, these are all still very much fringe phenomena and most universities today are deeply embedded in Orange, Green and to a lesser extent Blue.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_study_of_Western_esotericism

[caspex]

Quote

I feel like I need to let go of and just live life like the the other unknowing humans.

It may feel like "Should I go back to into the matrix?". Look at the tenth picture in the ox herding series. The person ends up back in the marketplace anyways. He is not living his life among unknowing dumb entities, him being superior. He is living among fellow Gods, among himself. This is true equality. There is no matrix to escape.

I am not telling you to magically become like that, I am telling you to keep in mind that's the end goal, at least for now. Open your heart more before delving deep into developing wisdom. You'll see the wisdom slowly starts making sense as you open your heart more. Leo talks about contemplating, but he doesn't state that contemplation doesn't work if your heart is closed off. The more opened your heart, the more fun you'll have in life. Intend to feel more love and peace, developing your capacity to encompass things and extend your heart to them. 

The way many respond here will throw you deeper into thought loops. Instead of thinking start feeling.

[Razard86]

11 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

I really hope that the transition to yellow happens fast. Right now universities are the breeding grounds for toxic wokeness.

 

Its already happened, men in society don't even attend college. https://hechingerreport.org/an-unnoticed-result-of-the-decline-of-men-in-college-its-harder-for-women-to-get-in/

[Girzo]

Consider this, talking about toxic wokeness is in itself a toxic behaviour.

Nothing good comes out of these discussions.

Woke is an umbrella term for anything progressive and postmodern that a person saying it doesn't like. It creates a false sense of unity of people who are against wokeness, because it can mean a lot of different things and what it means can change in time. You can't construct a good argument for or against anything using this term.

 

[Danioover9000]

@Girzo

On 6/20/2022 at 1:52 AM, Girzo said:

Consider this, talking about toxic wokeness is in itself a toxic behaviour.

Nothing good comes out of these discussions.

Woke is an umbrella term for anything progressive and postmodern that a person saying it doesn't like. It creates a false sense of unity of people who are against wokeness, because it can mean a lot of different things and what it means can change in time. You can't construct a good argument for or against anything using this term.

 

   we can try to discuss about woke culture. The problem isn't the topic itself, but how it is communicated. If communicated in a debate and argument framing, in a debunk mindset, then yes that framing, along with implicit biases, differences in values, cognition, morality, psychology, states of consciousness and life experiences determines to what degree it could be toxic.

   Having a discussion where both individuals and others participating in the communication, in an open minded, non judgmental way, wlling to steel man each other's points, is far from toxic, in fact it's the whole pint of a democracy.