Where Do Thoughts and Mental Images Take Place?

[TheOneReborn]

Let's say I'm walking in the forest and suddenly start thinking about work. I'm imagining being at my desk and working, and not where I am in the moment. What I don't understand is that if the totality of experience is all happening as one single flowing phenomenon, then where are my thoughts taking place? Is there an actual duality between material world I'm looking at and the immaterial thoughts in my head? 

Lets say there is no duality between thought and the material world, then why do they feel so distinct? When in a non dual state, one has no thoughts, but when you're not in a non dual state and are having thoughts you are simply not conscious of the non duality of everything, though everything is actually nondual all the time. Even when thoughts occur you are simply lying to yourself about about the non-dual nature of the world.

I'm just having trouble about how to place "thoughts" and imagination in actual reality? 

[Kamo]

This question ive been battling with for a few years. But its all based on how you interpret it. It may shock you to discover the answer. I cant give it to you. but i can try to describe it a bit, Thoughts occur right where your at. There is no location because consciousness is non-local. That mental imagery your seeing in your minds eye is the world. If you notice very closely, You can not hold an imagine in your mind and observe the tree in front of you. Only one at a time. but you can switch instantaneously. You still see the tree, but in a sense your not even looking at it, It takes a high level of attention to notice it, But the "outside" world stops being perceived for that hyper millisecond your attention is on the inner world. There only is your distinction of the 2 and how you interpret it. They come together as your perspective and only thoughts can tell you there's a difference. Just be careful with this one because theres alot of room for delusion. 

Thought is an abstraction about reality, then superimposed or projected back onto or "about" it. Thoughts will be based on your state of consciousness. So trying to carry thoughts about one state over between states gets very tricky, You said, ".Even when thoughts occur you are simply lying to yourself about about the non-dual nature of the world." right this is the self deception Leo has been speaking about. Theres another thought that is creating that perspective for you. If your having trouble watch Leos video on Actuality. It can help you get a clear distinction between concept and imagination v.s Actuality ,which all occur with in Reality, which is your entire perspective or Consciousness.

 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Kamo

[TheOneReborn]

Thanks. I haven't watched that video yet. Will definitely watch it now. 

That is very true that you cannot hold the thought and behold the tree at the same time. Overall I agree with your point. You're saying that thoughts exist in the exact same "field" as what we perceive as the material world?

Here's a thought to follow up on that:

If we consider that when one is in a non dual state, they are simply choking/constricting/holding back their total conciousness. When in the ego-self, thoughts appear muddied, vague, hard to grasp, almost see through in a sense like they are overlayed on top of our vision of the "material" world. Perhaps the reason for these vague/weak thoughts (thoughts with little vibrancy, or sense of realness) exist when not in non-dual conciousness is because they are simply derivative of one's "choked" conciousness (of course you are simply choking yourself here; God is choking himself). However I notice when I am in non-dual awareness and I intention ally think or day dream, my thoughts are incredibly vivid and I can imagine that I am in different worlds and it almost feel like I am in the world where I am daydreaming of. Perhaps this is because when I am closer to God conciousness, my mind isn't choked and this thoughts and imagination has so much more vibrancy and "realness" to it? 

And I guess the reason the dream right in front of us which produces the tree which I am taking as material, is because at the highest level there is a part of our being was which is always producing the dream in front of us? 

The ego is a choked version of God but God is always dreaming the dream before us with full absolute conciousness. 

 

[Dazgwny]

They’re happening in the exact same place. Intensity of imagination I’d say is pretty much the answer. That’s where we go back to levels and layers of imagination. The material world around you is like God’s imagination, top level, deepest layer, seeming real. The images in your mind a weaker less intense surface level of imagination. A human level of imagination. You create the duality. The higher and higher states of consciousness you get into the more and more they merge, until that point where there is no distinction to be had and all merges into one. So in real terms as such there is no duality, other than the one you’ve created, so you can walk and interact with this world as you do

[Kamo]

@TheOneReborn Yeah because your field of perception is the only field that exists. 

21 hours ago, TheOneReborn said:

If we consider that when one is in a non dual state, they are simply choking/constricting/holding back their total conciousness.

No, In a Non-Duel State your consciousness IS total. There is nothing being held back. But I intuit you may have had a typo and perhaps meant to say when "not" in a non duel state? If so then yeah the ego is limited so there is not an experience of totality at the level of the ego. That state just doesnt have the capacity to do more than be an ego lol.

21 hours ago, TheOneReborn said:

When in the ego-self, thoughts appear muddied, vague, hard to grasp, almost see through in a sense like they are overlayed on top of our vision of the "material" world.

Right there is this "conceptual overlay" I call it.

21 hours ago, TheOneReborn said:

Perhaps the reason for these vague/weak thoughts (thoughts with little vibrancy, or sense of realness) exist when not in non-dual conciousness is because they are simply derivative of one's "choked" conciousness (of course you are simply choking yourself here; God is choking himself).However I notice when I am in non-dual awareness and I intention ally think or day dream, my thoughts are incredibly vivid and I can imagine that I am in different worlds and it almost feel like I am in the world where I am daydreaming of. Perhaps this is because when I am closer to God conciousness, my mind isn't choked and this thoughts and imagination has so much more vibrancy and "realness" to it? 

Its more like because in a Non-Duel State your absolutely "Present" fully aware of exactly what is before you that there is no longer that "inner world" of seeing thoughts. There is only the Non-Duel State with complete presence. It seems what happens is those 2 modes of perception that "Inner" and "outer" seeing Merge together, You now have the capability of "daydreaming" the external world directly. 

22 hours ago, TheOneReborn said:

And I guess the reason the dream right in front of us which produces the tree which I am taking as material, is because at the highest level there is a part of our being was which is always producing the dream in front of us? 

The ego is a choked version of God but God is always dreaming the dream before us with full absolute conciousness. 

 

Yeah I would agree with what you said here. The Ego is the identification with the mind/body complex. A mental fabrication of your perceived identify as a human. All that goes out the window in a Non-Duel State.

Its kind of like this, Read and apply this slowly...Stare at a spot on your wall..Clear your mind of all mental content...Now observe the fact you have a field of vision but focus on one spot...Now remove your entire body and sense of having a head...now remove the room itself including the entire planet...Your just floating there in that spot or space...All of that "content" we removed, consciousness is able to materialize as anything in and as that space. God is that space and place we are looking from. The 2 are merged as One. Thus we have the creation of Reality.

[Kamo]

17 hours ago, Dazgwny said:

They’re happening in the exact same place. Intensity of imagination I’d say is pretty much the answer. That’s where we go back to levels and layers of imagination. The material world around you is like God’s imagination, top level, deepest layer, seeming real. The images in your mind a weaker less intense surface level of imagination. A human level of imagination. You create the duality. The higher and higher states of consciousness you get into the more and more they merge, until that point where there is no distinction to be had and all merges into one. So in real terms as such there is no duality, other than the one you’ve created, so you can walk and interact with this world as you do

Yes I agree. Well said. I honestly have nothing to add to this. It goes exactly with what I also mentioned, I didn't read this till after I posted my second reply. But I would have saved myself some time if I did lol.

[Leo Gura]

The precise answer is:

Nowhere

Space is imaginary.

[RMQualtrough]

NOWHERE

NOWHERE

NOWHERE

NOWHERE

And I don't mean the town Courage the Cowardly Dog lives in.

Pretty neat huh? And easy to prove to your scientific buddies, which will give them a bit of a fright.

[StarStruck]

In the third eye. Images are imprints from the god head. 

[thisintegrated]

Think of it like a computer program.

Thoughts don't have a location variable.  And that's it.  Location just isn't a thing.

[Vincent S]

Thoughts appear here where you are. Which is what is the localization of your consciousness. You created thoughts to distract yourself from your Absolute state. 

Thoughts are nothing but your construction of the self vs reality structure that you have designed, imagined and willfully put yourself in.

When you are in a peak state of non duality, through meditation or psychedelics. You are everywhere and everything. But still nowhere and nothing.  
But for the purposes of continuing your finite self structure, you start talking with yourself, when the peak subsides, or when you go “out” of meditation. And you create a split within yourself. One who is listening and one who is talking.

And since reality is nothing but a mirror of yourself: If you see thoughts as a bad and annoying thing, then that’s precisely what thoughts become, bad and annoying.

But if you see what it is for, you can start working with it to transcend the limitation, by stop thinking that is a limitation. And that everything is boundless. When you start accepting Everything as yourself, you stop thinking. You are home. 
 

[Aaron p]

i love the fact that i can visualise a red apple and see it palpably in my minds eye and its 100% real. its incredible 

[RMQualtrough]

32 minutes ago, Aaron p said:

i love the fact that i can visualise a red apple and see it palpably in my minds eye and its 100% real. its incredible 

I can summon really psychedelic imagery thanks to having used so much. I can't usually make it very clear as such, but it's kinda neat. Still bores me lmao...