I miss the time when spirituality was synonymous with open-mindedness

[RMQualtrough]

10 minutes ago, Barna said:

I am consciousness, and the totality of this experience-field (aka suchness) is made of this consciousness. From my experience, there's no space, no distance, every experience happens in dimensionless consciousness always in the here and now. I understand that. 

But there's a possibility that this consciousness didn't exist before this body was born because I have no memory of it existing. So there's also a possibility that it won't exist after this body dies.

Wait though, what do you mean by "this consciousness", because you've been talking about your character. Your character will go where thoughts go once you stop thinking of them.

Otherwise if you mostly understand, you need to find that "consciousness" = nothing. We aren't talking the verb, we're getting down to substance. We just know it as "consciousness", it is literally nothing. You get that nothingness would be impossible to create or destroy?

[RMQualtrough]

@Barna Also maybe this will help:

You are Barna, Barna is the limitation, Barna is the "thing" that comes (when you were born) and goes (when you die). No element of Barna will remain.

The person sitting over there typing back to me, you are the limitation, you are the appearance. When your limit is removed, Barna ceases to exist, as no limit = infinite = nothing = everything. No you don't float in a void of white, that would still be a continuation of Barna. Barna ends. You can imagine that "Barna" becomes everything and everywhere, because that's what nothing is. But "Barna" is out of luck if it expects to be reborn as an antelope or some shit.

[Barna]

@RMQualtrough Consciousness is not nothing. Consciousness might be aware of nothing (like in deep sleep), but it's not nothing and it's not something. Something and nothing are content. Consciousness is the context (or space) that the content (or something-nothing) is made of.

If you say that consciousness is nothing, that implies that a rock is just as conscious as a human. I mean, you can say that, but that would be just another belief based on nothing.

[RMQualtrough]

1 minute ago, Barna said:

@RMQualtrough Consciousness is not nothing. Consciousness might be aware of nothing (like in deep sleep), but it's not nothing and it's not something. Something and nothing are content. Consciousness is the context (or space) that the content (or something-nothing) is made of.

If you say that consciousness is nothing, that implies that a rock is just as conscious as a human. I mean, you can say that, but that would be just another belief based on nothing.

It IS nothing...

You can experience this, which is easier than explaining... When experienced, you don't observe "nothing", that is impossible, you ARE it. Any and all content appears to you, and that can be known. It can be experienced, and then you will know it to be the case.

Imagine this from your first person PoV: When all things are removed what is left? Imagine going deaf, then blind, then etc etc, no thoughts, no emotion. Tell me what is then left????????

Answer that and I think people can help you get it soon after.

[Barna]

14 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

Imagine this from your first person PoV: When all things are removed what is left? Imagine going deaf, then blind, then etc etc, no thoughts, no emotion. Tell me what is then left????????

Consciousness is left. When I close my eyes, I'm aware that I can't see anything. When there is silence, I'm aware of the silence. And so on. When everything disappears, I'm aware of the nothingness.

Are you saying that you only hear the noise and you don't even notice the silence? Noticing is consciousness.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Barna

[RMQualtrough]

23 minutes ago, Barna said:

Consciousness is left. When I close my eyes, I'm aware that I can't see anything. When there is silence, I'm aware of the silence. And so on. When everything disappears, I'm aware of the nothingness.

Are you saying that you only hear the noise and you don't even notice the silence? Noticing is consciousness.

When you close your eyes you see black, this is not nothingness. Black is another limited appearance, as people born blind will tell you (they see what you see through your elbows). Remove the black.

Don't be poetic just keep imagining removing things, and see what is left when you remove the very final thing. Which yes includes blackness.

[thibault]

True open-mindedness requires closing your mind to the paths that don't lead to an open-mind. It's paradoxical just like everything in life.

[Barna]

26 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

When you close your eyes you see black, this is not nothingness. Black is another limited appearance, as people born blind will tell you (they see what you see through your elbows). Remove the black.

Don't be poetic just keep imagining removing things, and see what is left when you remove the very final thing. Which yes includes blackness.

I'm not being poetic. I'm saying that I notice when there's silence. Don't you? 

Saying that consciousness in nothingness is like saying that space is the absence of matter. 
You're saying: "if you remove every matter from space then nothing remains, therefore space is nothing".
Don't you see the flaw in this logic? 

[_Archangel_]

6 hours ago, Barna said:

I've already done the "research", and my conclusion was that we cannot know for sure if consciousness continues after physical death. But sure, I can still be stupid, that's not off the table. I'm just waiting for someone to give an actual pointer to why is it stupid what I'm stating.

@Barna If with "Cousciousness" you mean reality/experience, of course it continues after death, how couldn't it?
You don't need to be awake to grasp it. It's logical. How can something infinite and eternal end?
Do you need to count to infinity to know that numbers are infinite?

Don't conflate agnosticism with skepticism. Agnosticism is just stupid and lazy.
Skepticism is a means to an end instead.

[RMQualtrough]

38 minutes ago, Barna said:

I'm not being poetic. I'm saying that I notice when there's silence. Don't you? 

Saying that consciousness in nothingness is like saying that space is the absence of matter. 
You're saying: "if you remove every matter from space then nothing remains, therefore space is nothing".
Don't you see the flaw in this logic? 

When there is silence, there's still other forms appearing. And silence probably carries some level of sound like wind, or your ears buzz if it's THAT quiet.

When it's all gone, you aren't there anymore. General anaesthetic effect, from your view, there is a seamless jump which can be many hours. This is where the limit of Barna is no longer there.

When you're dead, Barna doesn't come out the other side. But Barna isn't real. Barna is limited appearance. When Barna vanishes he sees through every set of human eyes. But of course Barna won't know it. Because Barna has returned into formless nothing.

You can try to use logic but if you experience first hand what I mean, I think you will find that you are nothing. The point you will find you are at, has no substance or thingness there. There is nothing at you or behind you. Anything that is a thing will appear to you.

Edited June 7, 2022 by RMQualtrough

[Barna]

2 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

When there is silence, there's still other forms appearing. And silence probably carries some level of sound like wind, or your ears buzz if it's THAT quiet.

When it's all gone, you aren't there anymore. General anaesthetic effect, from your view, there is a seamless jump which can be many hours. This is where the limit of Barna is no longer there.

Why would consciousness depend on the content of consciousness?

It's getting more and more obvious that you're expressing your philosophy, not knowledge.

[VeganAwake]

It's real and unreal.

It's something and nothing.

Is a temporary appearance something or nothing?

When it's recognized the witness is an illusion, what does it mean for that which was being witnessed?

And if it's recognized by no one, is it even a recognition? Or is the recognition also nothing?

Nothing can really be pinned down or labeled because it's constantly changing and simultaneously how can something change when it's origination is unknown?

We try really hard to know don't we!

Consciousness; The Absolute; Infinity; Reality; THIS; Everything & Nothing; The Beloved; God..... it doesn't matter what it's called, it's just what's happening.

All there is, is exactly what seems to be happening.

It's whole complete and perfect!!

And it's not somewhere else!!

It's THIS.....

 

❤ 

 

 

[RMQualtrough]

9 minutes ago, Barna said:

Why would consciousness depend on the content of consciousness?

It's getting more and more obvious that you're expressing your philosophy, not knowledge.

Because it's not a thing like you think it is........ I don't like the usual Advaita thing, their proof awareness is there in comas or deep sleep is that you come out like "oh man I slept really well!" That's BS... That's just sensations of your body feeling refreshed lol.

I have ceased to be a few times on DMT (blackout). And I did regain awareness with a sense of ecstasy that I don't usually get. But I wouldn't count on that as proof I must have experienced that blankness. I think the Buddhist view makes more sense, has more explanatory power, etc. I wrote out my first hand trip experience where I found that I was nothing...

People don't enjoy thinking about nothingness because it doesn't make sense unless you experience this. The semantical reasons for no-thing etc, or "is-ness". Confusing for Westerners. Because it's both something and nothing you have to call it no-thing? Not worth it. Just say nothing. Easy to explain.

Edited June 7, 2022 by RMQualtrough

[Razard86]

3 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:

The brain ain't a receiver bro. There's no antennae. I can say very confidently that is a major misunderstanding of what Leo, Buddha, or the Advaita guy, etc mean.

Not just a nitpick, but actually a major misunderstanding... Brains are in it, made of it. There isn't special matter that soaks up consciousness like a radio, and there isn't a little consciousness inside every particle. Rather, it is the very substance from which those things are made.

Like all things in existence, things all represent """pure consciousness""" appearing as limitation. I think it is easy to imagine a computer, and the icons on the screen. Like a brain you can manipulate the icons to create a result on the screen, but the icon is not the cause of the result, it is just a visual representation of something deeper.

You do realize that within this dream, things function a certain way. You are talking about the Meta Level, I am talking about the relative level. On the relative level you need water or you will die. But on the Meta level death does not exist. There is no confusion here, there is only projection from you. You are making a lot of assumptions here. There is an antennae, if you were conscious of this you would know. 

There are chakras there is a third eye, these are all things I experienced. But on the META level everything is made of nothing I am aware of that, so all distinction as a result is false, but it is also true. By telling me what I am saying is wrong, you are literally placing limits!!!

Consciousness has no limits, it is nothing but it is everything. Its a freaking paradox. The moment you say it isn't something you are denying the paradox!!

[RMQualtrough]

11 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

You do realize that within this dream, things function a certain way. You are talking about the Meta Level, I am talking about the relative level. On the relative level you need water or you will die. But on the Meta level death does not exist. There is no confusion here, there is only projection from you. You are making a lot of assumptions here. There is an antennae, if you were conscious of this you would know. 

There are chakras there is a third eye, these are all things I experienced. But on the META level everything is made of nothing I am aware of that, so all distinction as a result is false, but it is also true. By telling me what I am saying is wrong, you are literally placing limits!!!

Consciousness has no limits, it is nothing but it is everything. Its a freaking paradox. The moment you say it isn't something you are denying the paradox!!

But there's no antennae or signal involved even on a relative level. I think that's sort of like a Panpsychism type thing, but rather than all matter having its own little consciousness, there is special matter that can receive it like a radio.

It's a really different idea bro.

[Razard86]

22 minutes ago, RMQualtrough said:

But there's no antennae or signal involved even on a relative level. I think that's sort of like a Panpsychism type thing, but rather than all matter having its own little consciousness, there is special matter that can receive it like a radio.

It's a really different idea bro.

No there is not an antennae within YOUR reality. But it is there, you are just not aware of it. I didn't think it existed either until I had a NDE, my third eye opened and I felt the antennae. Its there, but now that my consciousness is back to baseline I can no longer feel it and my third eye is closed. But its definitely there. 

To quote Sadhguru "There are 114 chakras in the body, of which two are outside the physical body. If a dimension beyond your physicality becomes a continuously active process within you, then after some time, these two chakras which are generally dormant, become active. If they become active, then you have an antenna on your head giving you a certain perspective of life!"

Now I knew nothing about this antennae and had to look it up afterward. I got into a car accident and my attachment to my body was LOOSE. Basically I was half-way here lol. That's when I noticed I felt something sticking out of the top of my head (I also had a kundalini awakening). Anyway now that my awareness is at base line, and my attachment to my body is secure again...I can no longer feel it. But I KNOW its there. I only way able to learn this stuff was true...by being close to death!!!

[Razard86]

The reason why psychedelics work the way they do....is they trick the body into thinking you died. So when your body thinks you are dead....it performs certain actions. You obviously need to take a high enough dosage to get the effect. But that is ego death, its literally death but the body stays alive. I was able to confirm this. Its why its rather easy to figure out who is doing the work or not....by what they are experiencing. You can confirm what is true or not by doing the work yourself. 

This is why everyone needs to realize....these forums should not be a hindrance to you doing the work. Learning to be more loving of yourself and others. Psychedelics are just one of many tools. We should also practice meditation as well.

[Fernanda]

It takes an open mind to see a "block" as an act of love.

[AtheisticNonduality]

It's true that you will die even though You will never die.

[Mannyb]

11 hours ago, Barna said:

I am consciousness, and the totality of this experience-field (aka suchness) is made of this consciousness. From my experience, there's no space, no distance, every experience happens in dimensionless consciousness always in the here and now. I understand that. 

But there's a possibility that this consciousness didn't exist before this body was born because I have no memory of it existing. So there's also a possibility that it won't exist after this body dies.

What else could be besides consciousness? I agree the best we can say while being open minded is I don’t know or simply to remain silent.