Discussion about death (Trigger warning)

[Vincent S]

4 hours ago, Barna said:

When I say non-existence, I mean non-existence of consciousness. Are you implying that consciousness doesn't exist? Are you not aware right now?

There is only Consciousness. Consciousness is Everything. I didn't imply that consciousness doesn't exist. Maybe your assumption of what you thought I said.
What I mean when I say non-existence is that all our forms and identities, characters and faces are Hollow. They are just shells/husks and vessels that we as Emptiness use to experience existence. So I am saying that you are already dead and alive. At the same time. But question yourself which one you are the most? Or better yet, realize that you are both. You are a shapeshifter of Consciousness and you create all these forms to experience yourself with.

4 hours ago, Barna said:

Yes, the question of the topic is about the future. Are you able to talk about the future or are you too spiritual for that?

Maybe it's not about being "too spiritual", maybe it is an invitation for you to realize something greater about yourself. And instead of jokingly thinking that someone is trying to be more spiritual than you. Open yourself up to accept the invitation to experience something new.
I have no interest in being more spiritual than anyone. Because I am already everyone, including you. And so are you. So who is there to better than?

4 hours ago, Barna said:

I know that the present is the only real thing. But practically speaking, the point of death will become a present moment for all of us at some point.

I will meet you there <3

4 hours ago, Barna said:

And it's just an interesting topic, so I want to talk about this intead of just sitting in silence and meditating on it by myself.

Understandable.

4 hours ago, Barna said:

 I have experienced many levels of death. For a point of reference: I've taken almost half a gram of 5-meo in a year.

Beautiful. Namaste

Edited June 6, 2022 by Vincent S

[Barna]

3 minutes ago, Vincent S said:

Maybe it's not about being "too spiritual", maybe it is an invitation for you to realize something greater about yourself. And instead of jokingly thinking that someone is trying to be more spiritual than you. Open yourself up to accept the invitation to experience something new.

The validity of past and future is off-topic, that's not what this thread is about. Why are you trying to convert this into you teaching me a lesson about your paradigm?

The question is simple: do you accept the possibility that consciousness might disappear in the future? Or are you afraid of the atheist death? ?

[Vincent S]

12 minutes ago, Barna said:

The validity of past and future is off-topic, that's not what this thread is about. Why are you trying to convert this into you teaching me a lesson about your paradigm?

"Your paradigm". That's funny.

12 minutes ago, Barna said:

The question is simple: do you accept the possibility that consciousness might disappear in the future? Or are you afraid of the atheist death? ?

I'm not under the spell of the very Core structure of Everything, Which is Consciousness, being able to disappear.

Death is for the Identity. Once Identity of the specific shell/husk/vessel is distinguished. Death will then be seen for what it truly is. Which is Imaginary. But that Imaginary death is as real as anything else Consciousness can Imagine.

What we "think" we are will die, but that which is fundamental and underlying, will forever Be.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Vincent S

[The Mystical Man]

3 minutes ago, Barna said:

The question is simple: do you accept the possibility that consciousness might disappear in the future? Or are you afraid of the atheist death? ?

Eternal Consciousness cannot disappear in the future. But your individual consciousness will disappear; that's death. Death is not imaginary. You will die, make no mistake about it. However, the more aware you are of Eternal Consciousness, the less of a problem your individual death is, for Eternal Consciousness is rebirthing itself into existence in every moment. Every moment is death. 

[UnbornTao]

@Barna the entire point of this work is direct experience. Leo has presumably had many awakenings (direct consciousness of one's nature). So it isn't a belief for him, if he's to be trusted.

Besides, I hear tell that consciousness is absolute, hence not limited to the brain.

You seem to be very grounded in the mainstream materialist scientific paradigm of reality. 

Open up. Maybe that's an assumption (and a mistaken one at that).

That's why we contemplate.

Edited June 6, 2022 by UnbornTao

[Gabith]

@Barna If death existed I don't think it would be a thing to fear because if death = no consciousness, it means that you are not aware.
So there is nothing without a you being aware of it, feels more like a liberation than a scary thing 

[amanen]

You can become directly conscious of the fact that death does not exist and that you as consciousness are completely immortal.

[Leo Gura]

What you actually fear is not death, it's infinite consciousness.

[RMQualtrough]

5 hours ago, Barna said:

What if spiritual masters tell us that consciousness is eternal only because they recognize that the fear of death is an unnecessary burden? (Or because they are still afraid of death themselves?)

If death was the end of consciousness, would you be okay with that right now?

Well the thing is, I know that I am nothingness. This isn't a theory or speculation or delusion. That is what I fundamentally am. I'm a skeptic type of person, I do not believe in magick and bullshit, but this I know......

And there seems to be implications of that. How could nothingness end? Even begin? Ever be created or destroyed? It seems untouchable. I would need further logical proof confirming that, but it really does seem to me that thingness = finity, nothingness = non-finity, eternity, and so on.

[RMQualtrough]

44 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

@Barna the entire point of this work is direct experience. Leo has presumably had many awakenings (direct consciousness of one's nature). So it isn't a belief for him, if he's to be trusted.

Besides, I hear tell that consciousness is absolute, hence not limited to the brain.

You seem to be very grounded in the mainstream materialist scientific paradigm of reality. 

Open up. Maybe that's an assumption (and a mistaken one at that).

That's why contemplation is done.

Materialism is actually outright impossible, and can be proven with perhaps 10 minutes of effort. I don't think many people think things like mathematics are a physical substance.

Substance is not only unlikely, but impossible.

[bambi]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

What you actually fear is not death, it's infinite consciousness.

I think death would be welcome for most people, the Buddha was right, life is discontentment and suffering, why would anyone want to infintely experience this. Nibanna/parinibbana seems like a desirable destination and an end to the madness

[The Mystical Man]

8 minutes ago, bambi said:

Nibanna/parinibbana seems like a desirable destination and an end to the madness

There is no end to the madness. You will exist forever, in some form or another. There is no birth, no suffering, no death; there is no end to birth, suffering, and death.

[Leo Gura]

If death was real, all of spirituality would be pointless.

[RMQualtrough]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

If death was real, all of spirituality would be pointless.

Is there a point to it anyway? The demise of my character dissolves every aspect of it back into being everything and everywhere... What of my spiritual practices or apparent knowledge are retained or relevant?

Surely this is all an intellectual quest, especially when going in VERY deep beyond the character-useful knowledge.

[bambi]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If death was real, all of spirituality would be pointless.

Not really, it would actually give it its point lol, it would be the ultimate context for spirituality, for this infinite ball of madness and suffering to finally come to an end, this is precisely the goal of Buddhism

[bambi]

3 hours ago, The Mystical Man said:

There is no end to the madness. You will exist forever, in some form or another. There is no birth, no suffering, no death; there is no end to birth, suffering, and death.

Sorry these are just cheap words, there is suffering, to say others is to deceive yourself via spiritual nonsense you've read somewhere

[Gesundheit2]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If death was real, all of spirituality would be pointless.

Well, maybe it is.

It's not like there's a rule written somewhere in the universe that says spirituality is the ultimate truth. And even if there was, I would still doubt it.

[axiom]

Before contemplating whether death is the end, it is probably worth contemplating how life is possible in the first place.

How the F*$% can something be created out of nothing at all?  Surely that is impossible?

You're not wrong.

Life is an utter impossibility.

Now, contemplate how it is that you're sitting there reading this.

[RMQualtrough]

56 minutes ago, axiom said:

Before contemplating whether death is the end, it is probably worth contemplating how life is possible in the first place.

How the F*$% can something be created out of nothing at all?  Surely that is impossible?

You're not wrong.

Life is an utter impossibility.

Now, contemplate how it is that you're sitting there reading this.

Nothing = without limit. Pure creation itself.

No limitation makes nothingness unstable... Because there is no limit or finitude to it, there is no boundary that traps it as being nothing and not something.

Things are the opposite, things have limit and borders. Even infinite sets are sets of one type of thing and not another. When a limit ends, it ceases to exist, it becomes nothing, which is everything.

[VeganAwake]

12 hours ago, Barna said:

Just answer honestly, without the no-self-paradigm, do you believe that consciousness continues after death? Or you simply don't care?

Its not a paradigm, enlightenment is the end of paradigms.

Consciousness is just the bodily sensations mixed with thinking..... it ends when the organism dies. That's also why there is no memory of consciousness prior to birth.

There are approximately 7.75 billion human beings which appear to be conscious and aware of the bodily sensations, hearing, smelling, seeing, feeling, tasting, thinking.

But these bodies are completely empty of a real you/me/them. There is no one or no thing actually inside of them!

The sense of self that claims these sensations as consciousness or as MY bodily sensations is an illusion.

There are human bodies walking around just like there are deer in the forest, the difference is that the human mind has become an entity unto itself. 

This illusory sense of separation creates an experience often referred to as the Dream Story or The Matrix. Like a real experience caused by a false assumption of separation.

Waking up is the recognition that this separate identity within the body is completely fiction. 

❤