Discussion about death (Trigger warning)

[Barna]

What if spiritual masters tell us that consciousness is eternal only because they recognize that the fear of death is an unnecessary burden? (Or because they are still afraid of death themselves?)

If death was the end of consciousness, would you be okay with that right now?

[aurum]

@Barna The good news is you don’t have to just speculate. If you want to know whether consciousness actually is eternal and not just a feel good story, you can know that.

Direct experience and contemplation is the key.

[VeganAwake]

28 minutes ago, Barna said:

What if spiritual masters tell us that consciousness is eternal only because they recognize that the fear of death is an unnecessary burden? (Or because they are still afraid of death themselves?)

If death was the end of consciousness, would you be okay with that right now?

Well THIS is already death because the sense of self that believes it's alive and conscious, isn't real.

There isn't a real you to be okay or not okay with it ......that's the illusion of self!!

So in that sense nothing matters at all.

 

❤ 

[Barna]

46 minutes ago, aurum said:

@Barna The good news is you don’t have to just speculate. If you want to know whether consciousness actually is eternal and not just a feel good story, you can know that.

Direct experience and contemplation is the key.

You can only know the present moment in which you are conscious. If you project this consciousness into the future, that's just imagination, which happens in the now. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Barna

[Barna]

34 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Well THIS is already death because the sense of self that believes it's alive and conscious, isn't real.

If you call consciousness death then we can call everything by any word, and then we cannot have a discussion because we don't have a common vocabulary.

Just answer honestly, without the no-self-paradigm, do you believe that consciousness continues after death? Or you simply don't care?

[aurum]

16 minutes ago, Barna said:

You can only know the present moment in which you are conscious. If you project this consciousness into the future, that's just imagination, which happens in the now. 

I agree. Is that a contradiction to what I said?

Eternity is not “in the future”. It is outside the paradigm of time itself.

[Vincent S]

Fear of death is only for the ego and the separate self that think it is not a part of everything else. But passing this fear is and can be the hardest thing to do as a separate self. Because all your life, you have been buying in to this dream and everything about it. Including this thing called death.

Fear of death is really a huge fear of having to be selfless, and stop caring only about yourself, and start caring about reality as a whole.
The ego will hijack this truth with giving you/us a HUGE fear of death. Death is an illusion. But it is the roughest illusion there can ever be, because there Is so much stored up deception, thoughts, emotions, fear and a primordial weight around it.

Even though I have been through my fear of death during 50+ trips, and thought I already moved past this. I was surprised few weeks ago during a DMT trip where I was being strangulated with love by God. Because I had asked so thoroughly what REAL AWAKENING was. And of course, it is behind this primordial fear of death. I went through the biggest trauma of my life. Because I had feared death since I was a child. I was becoming Infinite, while I was being choked to death by God. And the love of Reality. And I resisted it of course, because my fear of death was apparently greater than becoming one with God.

Until a few days later where I told myself that I wasn't going to live with this fear anymore. I was so done with this crap. Having to fear this for 25+ years.
I took 3-4 tabs of LSD and deliberately went in to a deep state of meditation, and stopped my heart. I passed out after that, and went through THE BIGGEST awakening ever. And saw the illusion of life, outside this dream. I was EVERYTHING. And my fear of death, was really my fear of being EVERYTHING. My fear of death, was owning it to myself that I was God. Or shall I say: There Is Only God.

My body passed out for I don't know how long, while I was going through this transformation. And I became so Conscious that I became unconscious.
I could have been there forever. But I didn't really know I was gone, until I came back. I returned to "my body" and It was the most surreal experience of my life. I'm still shocked that I am living and that I still Am. But I live with the joy of life and appreciation for what is. Rather than fearing what may be, or what will happen in the future.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Vincent S

[Barna]

24 minutes ago, aurum said:

I agree. Is that a contradiction to what I said?

Eternity is not “in the future”. It is outside the paradigm of time itself.

If eternity is outside of the paradigm of time, that means that the eternal nature of consciousness doesn't say anything about what happens to consciousness after physical death. 

So what's your stance? Does consciousness continue after physical death?

[Barna]

@Vincent S thanks for sharing this

So if consciousness stopped at death, and you became literally nothing (not a conscious nothing but consciousness would also disappear), would you be okay with that right now? 

[Vincent S]

Just now, Barna said:

So if consciousness stopped at death, and you became literally nothing (not a conscious nothing but consciousness would also disappear), would you be okay with that right now? 

Yes. But something else we have to include here is. Why did I come back after my heart stopped? Nothingness and Unconsciousness happens within Consciousness. And Consciousness happens within Nothingness. For me to Imagine that "I" was gone, I have to be Conscious that "I" was gone. For there to be a thing called "gone", I have to be. So with this, we can come to the conclusion that Life and Death are both Imaginary.

At the edge of the Infinity DMT trip where I was being strangulated: Imagination and Reality were both merging in to one thing. What was real became Imaginary and what was Imaginary became Real. I became conscious that whoever is talking about awakening had no freaking clue what they were talking about. True Awakening begins when we wake up for the strong Illusion of Life and Death.

You/we "die" and then we choose another point of view or a new view of what Is/was and will be. Which is all in the Now. Death happens to the character and what God imagines what the character is going through. But there are points and stages where you become so Dissociated/Disillusioned from life as we know it, that you stop imagining life as a human/animal and become something greater. You become Everything that Is.

[Barna]

I think you misunderstood my question. What if you die and then you don't become anything ever again. No everythingness, no consciousness, nothing. God won't take another form, there won't be a God to merge with, simply because you won't continue to exist.

Are you okay with that right now?

[Vincent S]

Every single moment we die and come to life. Literally our physical body dies and regenerates itself. Where does that regeneration force come from? Where is that essence located at? And if small separate selves make a larger whole, then surely what we experience has something greater behind it, in the background of our being. When a cell in our body dies, do we die? Same thing with our body, and the larger whole.
When our body dies, we become conscious that we are something bigger. Just like if we were to be identified with a cell in our body, and when that cell would die, we would realize that we still exist. If there is a choice to still experience and enjoy things as a cell (body) it regenerates. Just like my heart stopped and "I" came back. Is a bigger equivalent of a cell dying and a new being reborn.

The sense of identity is what causes the illusion and the experience. You and me can sit and become so conscious together, that I become you and you become me. Does that mean that both of us died? No, it's just that we realized we are already one and we switched POV. Or we adopted each other's identity.

And as they say: As above, so below. Our truest nature is Nothingness, Something-ness and Everything-ness, at the same time. Or shall we say at the same Now. At the same Point. That Still-Point where Nothingness, Something-ness and Everythingness meets, is what God is. The three faces/phases of God. Emptiness Dancing.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Vincent S

[Vincent S]

21 minutes ago, Barna said:

I think you misunderstood my question. What if you die and then you don't become anything ever again. No everythingness, no consciousness, nothing. God won't take another form, there won't be a God to merge with, simply because you won't continue to exist.

Are you okay with that right now?

That's the thing. You cannot not be. You have to Imagine that Nothingness or Not-Being, to be it.

I have to be okay with it. Because that is already what "I" am, and that includes you. We are already Nothing, Something and Everything. We just define ourselves in a specific way and think we are separate from our Truest Nature. Which is all of them at the same "time".

Edited June 6, 2022 by Vincent S

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Barna said:

What if spiritual masters tell us that consciousness is eternal only because they recognize that the fear of death is an unnecessary burden?

Lol

It is an unncessary burden because death is imaginary.

[Barna]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol

It is an unncessary burden because death is imaginary.

Sure, you can believe that if you want to. But do you really want to hang onto that belief? 

Are you afraid to be open to the possibility that consciousness might stop to exist after death?

[Barna]

@Vincent S your thoughts might feel like they represent a kind of existential understanding, but actually these are just beliefs about the things that you cannot know for sure. Do you really want to hang onto these beliefs?

To clarify: my question is not whether you will be okay with non-existence after death. That question would be stupid because you won't be there to care.

My question is: are you okay with the future possibility of non-existence right now?

[Vincent S]

24 minutes ago, Barna said:

@Vincent S your thoughts might feel like they represent a kind of existential understanding, but actually these are just beliefs about the things that you cannot know for sure. Do you really want to hang onto these beliefs?

When you experience these things for yourself. You will no longer hold them as a belief. The only belief I had in my life that was making life a living hell, to believe in Death. Believing in the biggest illusion there could ever be.

24 minutes ago, Barna said:

To clarify: my question is not whether you will be okay with non-existence after death. That question would be stupid because you won't be there to care.

My question is: are you okay with the future possibility of non-existence right now?

Past and future is Imaginary.

I have derived at these Truths through experience. Not through beliefs.

What I am pointing you to is that non-existence is already the case. The distinction between existence and non-existence has to be relinquished.
You/me just choose to see one side of the coin/story, to be able to speak about it. And to experience the different facets of ourselves.
Existence is happening within Non-existence, right Now. I'm not trying to dodge your question. I'm trying to point you out of this thinking of "a future possiblity".

I appreciate you for asking these questions and pointing me towards something you think is going to happen. Which is appreciated. But realize the middle-point of Reality.
I invite you to go explore these thoroughly within yourself and come back with your definitive answer. Once you are definitively sure about what Life and Death really is

Edited June 6, 2022 by Vincent S

[Gesundheit2]

It is quite obvious that there are many spiritual dogmas that go unquestioned and even defended dogmatically. Congrats for breaking that barrier.

[Barna]

@Vincent S I have experienced many levels of death. For a point of reference: I've taken almost half a gram of 5-meo in a year.

I never said that I think consciousness will end after physical death. I'm saying that I simply don't know what will happen so I'm open to anything. 

26 minutes ago, Vincent S said:

What I am pointing you to is that non-existence is already the case. The distinction between existence and non-existence has to be relinquished.

You/me just choose to see one side of the coin/story, to be able to speak about it. And to experience the different facets of ourselves.
Existence is happening within Non-existence, right Now. I'm not trying to dodge your question. I'm trying to point you out of this thinking of "a future possiblity".

When I say non-existence, I mean non-existence of consciousness. Are you implying that consciousness doesn't exist? Are you not aware right now?

Yes, the question of the topic is about the future. Are you able to talk about the future or are you too spiritual for that?

I know that the present is the only real thing. But practically speaking, the point of death will become a present moment for all of us at some point.

And it's just an interesting topic, so I want to talk about this intead of just sitting in silence and meditating on it by myself.

[Barna]

9 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

It is quite obvious that there are many spiritual dogmas that go unquestioned and even defended dogmatically. Congrats for breaking that barrier.

I didn't expect an answer like this. Thank you!