What use are progressive congressmen if they have no leverage?

[Hardkill]

All of these progressives in Congress including AOC, Jayapal, Bernie, Warren, etc. haven't been able to get any of their progressive agenda passed in Congress for years.

Even though they haven't been corrupted by corporate donors like the centrist Democrats have been, the progressives have always had a weaker hand than the centrists Democrats. This is because the progressives always genuinely care about making as much progress as possible for their constituents and for the country as a whole, whereas the centrist Democrats (particularly the most conservative ones like Manchin and Sinema) have always cared much less about changing the status quo.

That's why the progressives last Fall had to eventually capitulate to the centrist Dems (especially the right-wing Dems) in Congress with regard to the negotiations on both the BIF bill and the social spending BBB bill.

So, what's the point of any progressives in Congress if they are never able to have any real leverage over any of the neoliberal Dems in the establishment?

 

 

[Yarco]

Their value is in shifting the conversation further toward progressive values over time. And being there to vote no against stuff that is too regressive.

Someone has to be the crazy person suggesting $15/hr minimum wage to even get it into the public conciousness, giving people time to mull it over for a couple election cycles before it starts to sound reasonable.

3 hours ago, Hardkill said:

progressives always genuinely care about making as much progress as possible for their constituents and for the country as a whole

Careful, progressives aren't trying to make progress for all citizens or constituents equally. 

Progressives are really good at speaking up for the lowest and worst off in society. But many of their policies would be neutral or hurt the most rich and powerful in society (who donate the most to parties) and even the middle class (who make up the majority of voters.)

Progressives would make society as good as possible overall for as many people as possible. But that involves kneecapping or bringing some people down in the process. It's hard to get people to vote against their own self-interest (or perceived self-interest) for a larger vision. Most people are short term thinkers and care more about not paying a extra few cents for carbon tax at the gas pumps than leaving a better world for their great great grandkids they'll never meet.

Feeds into the same mentality of poor people voting conservative against their best interest, because they have dreams and ambitions that one day they'll make it or win the lottery and be able to take advantage of all the tax loopholes, corruption, etc afforded by conservatism.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Yarco

[Hardkill]

17 hours ago, Yarco said:

Their value is in shifting the conversation further toward progressive values over time. And being there to vote no against stuff that is too regressive.

Someone has to be the crazy person suggesting $15/hr minimum wage to even get it into the public conciousness, giving people time to mull it over for a couple election cycles before it starts to sound reasonable.

Careful, progressives aren't trying to make progress for all citizens or constituents equally. 

Progressives are really good at speaking up for the lowest and worst off in society. But many of their policies would be neutral or hurt the most rich and powerful in society (who donate the most to parties) and even the middle class (who make up the majority of voters.)

Progressives would make society as good as possible overall for as many people as possible. But that involves kneecapping or bringing some people down in the process. It's hard to get people to vote against their own self-interest (or perceived self-interest) for a larger vision. Most people are short term thinkers and care more about not paying a extra few cents for carbon tax at the gas pumps than leaving a better world for their great great grandkids they'll never meet.

Feeds into the same mentality of poor people voting conservative against their best interest, because they have dreams and ambitions that one day they'll make it or win the lottery and be able to take advantage of all the tax loopholes, corruption, etc afforded by conservatism.

Yeah, but it doesn't seem like the progressive's shifting the conversation further toward progressive values has been accomplishing anything. Am I wrong?

[Rokazulu]

You are definitely not wrong.

They sometimes do have leverage, and just choose to never utilize it. They don't even bother voting by conscious anymore either.
#ForceTheVote really highlighted how entrenched the Democratic party has become. It is all words that are never backed up with any inkling of action.

Once you choose to go from Independent to Democrat, you have basically told everyone that you give up, and just want a nice cozy job that pays well.

[Razard86]

18 hours ago, Yarco said:

Their value is in shifting the conversation further toward progressive values over time. And being there to vote no against stuff that is too regressive.

Someone has to be the crazy person suggesting $15/hr minimum wage to even get it into the public conciousness, giving people time to mull it over for a couple election cycles before it starts to sound reasonable.

Careful, progressives aren't trying to make progress for all citizens or constituents equally. 

Progressives are really good at speaking up for the lowest and worst off in society. But many of their policies would be neutral or hurt the most rich and powerful in society (who donate the most to parties) and even the middle class (who make up the majority of voters.)

Progressives would make society as good as possible overall for as many people as possible. But that involves kneecapping or bringing some people down in the process. It's hard to get people to vote against their own self-interest (or perceived self-interest) for a larger vision. Most people are short term thinkers and care more about not paying a extra few cents for carbon tax at the gas pumps than leaving a better world for their great great grandkids they'll never meet.

Feeds into the same mentality of poor people voting conservative against their best interest, because they have dreams and ambitions that one day they'll make it or win the lottery and be able to take advantage of all the tax loopholes, corruption, etc afforded by conservatism.

I love that you understand how well everything works. Great post!!! Everything you said is exactly how it is!!

Edited June 6, 2022 by Razard86

[Husseinisdoingfine]

You're thinking quite selfishly. Consider that the reason progressives are so small in Congress is because the vast majority of the American people are quite Conservative, or at best, Centrist Liberal. Our Government merely reflects this. If you don't like this, consider becoming an activist. 

[Hardkill]

2 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

You're thinking quite selfishly. Consider that the reason progressives are so small in Congress is because the vast majority of the American people are quite Conservative, or at best, Centrist Liberal. Our Government merely reflects this. If you don't like this, consider becoming an activist. 

No I know that.

That’s why I am questioning the use of progressives in office, particularly in Congress. 

I mean do you think that Bernie Sanders, Jayapal, or the progressive squad gotten even one piece of their progressive agenda passed in Congress? Or have all of these congresspeople been totally useless? 

[DocWatts]

(1) Because of the dangerous state that our democracy is in, any person in either chambers of Congress who isn't a fascist Republican is indepsensible at this point. This point can't be stressed enough.

(2) Having progressives like Bernie and AOC in Congress move the Overton window to the Left, even if they're not able to get any major legislation passed.

(3) Progressives can get legislation passed on a State and local level. Marijuana legalization is a great example of how progressive policies in States and localities can come to change the national political landscape.

[Hardkill]

4 hours ago, DocWatts said:

(1) Because of the dangerous state that our democracy is in, any person in either chambers of Congress who isn't a fascist Republican is indepsensible at this point. This point can't be stressed enough.

(2) Having progressives like Bernie and AOC in Congress move the Overton window to the Left, even if they're not able to get any major legislation passed.

(3) Progressives can get legislation passed on a State and local level. Marijuana legalization is a great example of how progressive policies in States and localities can come to change the national political landscape.

1) Okay, that's true. However, moderate or centre-left Democrats are still more useful for the Democratic Party. 

2) Alright, well I do think that the progressives actually have been able to shift whole Democratic Party more to the left. However, what's the point of that if the Republican Party keeps shifting more and more to the right and if the entire country has been swinging back in favor of the GOP for many months now? In fact, aren't progressives actually making the Democratic Party increasingly less electable by making the party really come off as being too far to the left for most Americans?

3) I have no problem with Progressive officials at both the state and local level. At least those progressives can actually get something concrete done, albeit at a smaller scale.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Hardkill