Can you ever get rid of the ego, or do you just have to learn to dance with it?

[TheOneReborn]

"not even so much as the tip of a hair of self remains" 

This is a quote from Leo's ten ox herding videos from Yamada Mumon. 

Is this really possible with spiritual practice? I find myself now on cycles of non-dual awareness which lasts for a few hours only to go back to my egoic self for a few weeks, and repeat. In non-dual awareness I have little to no thoughts for most of the time and true no-thought conciousness for an hour or two. 

But my ego always kicks in once I start thinking again about work or my goals or any self oriented thing. My question is whether the spiritual master has killed his ego completely or just learned to dance, flow, and control it? Is it even possible to totally kill your own ego but also strive for success and achievement? I'm a practicing lawyer and while I do think I have a grasp on my own arrogance and and pretty mindful of my own ego, my own financial situation (just starting out, high student debt, etc) requires me to have a lot of strong personal goals and desires. 

I'm confused as to what I am supposed to do with my ego and personal desires? Utterly annihilate them or learn to tango with them?

[Breakingthewall]

I think you can get to live with a minimal ego. but do you really want that? The less ego, the greater happiness, so on the one hand, for practical reasons, the logical thing would be to want that. but this implies a great detachment. for example, leaving your law career and going to live in a cave with nothing material. I am not saying that this is necessary, but that it is a possibility. you, that is, the ego, since it is the ego that is trying to minimize the ego, do you want to give up yourself? up to what point? I personally prefer the option: to God what belongs to God and to Caesar what belongs to Caesar. a healthy ego that knows its place, its nature, and does not try to usurp what belongs to God, but who, while possible, will try to satisfy. i don't want to be ramana maharshi, in silent ecstasy. there will be eternity for that. Probably i would be much more happy in that fulfillment, but I feel that as an ego, I owe something to myself

 

[cetus]

 # 10 of the Ox hearing pictures- Returning to the marketplace

"D.T. Suzuki, the foremost interpreter of Zen Buddhism to the West, in commenting on this picture, writes: "And now having moved through the stage of emptiness, and also having seen god in the world of nature, the individual can see God in the world of men. Enlightened mingling in the marketplace with 'wine-bibbers and butchers' (public-cans and sinners), he recognizes the 'inner light' of 'Buddha nature' in everyone. He doesn't need to hold himself aloof nor to be weighted down by a sense of duty or responsibility, nor to follow a set of patterns of other holy men, nor to imitate the past. He is so in harmony with life that he is content to be inconspicuous, to be an instrument, not a leader. He simply does what seems to him natural. But though in the marketplace he seems to be an ordinary man, something happens to the people among whom he mingles. They too become part of the harmony of the universe."

[Raze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMDs_-zV8EU

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gftjbhpkJdo

 

 

[puporing]

3 hours ago, TheOneReborn said:

Is it even possible to totally kill your own ego but also strive for success and achievement?

Yes it's possible to achieve things still but without the attachment for "achieving" anything at all.  So almost like you can still have some goals but you're totally not worried if they don't end up as planned. No attachment to outcome.

On the other hand when this happens your "goals" will most likely be very different.. like maybe just to practically survive, embody your truths, etc.

3 hours ago, TheOneReborn said:

I'm confused as to what I am supposed to do with my ego and personal desires? Utterly annihilate them or learn to tango with them?

Depends where you are at. How much are you willing to surrender. To surrender might feel like a kind of "death", this might be a continual process. But on the other side is inifnite freedom and love awaiting.

It's okay if you got survival struggles. Just be mindful of it and why you need to take care of that aspect of living.

Edited June 6, 2022 by puporing

[TheOneReborn]

Thanks everyone. Seems like the idea is to tango with it for now and throw it off a bridge when I'm ready lol

[puporing]

53 minutes ago, TheOneReborn said:

throw it off a bridge when I'm ready lol

rofl. 

See Leo's latest video, I think it relates to your questions.

 

[VeganAwake]

@TheOneReborn The thing is, the ego isn't something tangible to be gotten rid of. It's the entire sense of self costruct.(Not just the so-called bad parts) It's not actually real. Its a misunderstanding or mistaken identity.

It's not that the ego dies, rather its recognized to have never been real!!

And then all the energy that was being used to uphold this unreal self construct can flow back into everything.

❤ 

 

[aurum]

@TheOneReborn

A topic like this is so nuanced that often it’s difficult to pin down in words. And even when you do, it’s likely to be misinterpreted.

In my experience, you’re not “getting rid of” the ego. If you actually did that, you would just be pure, formless consciousness. And that’s cool, but you can’t really live a 3D life like that.

You need some sort of interface. An avatar. Even if it’s ultimately a creation of your own mind.

The trick is to be fully conscious of this. This won’t “destroy” the avatar in a conventional sense as long as you keep creating it. But you can KNOW that you’re creating it. So really you’re the creator and the creation at once.

It’s sort of like a merging happens. A merging of the God and Ego. Except that merging was always the case, you just weren’t awake to it.

[RMQualtrough]

Sense of identity is only one aspect of being human. If you had zero ego you might have to live in a hospital being fed like a vegetable, as you wouldn't be able to discern where you end and other things begin.

That might be partially overcome by learning though. If I learn that the fleshy stuff is my body etc, perhaps you could navigate. Life would not be very enjoyable though. It would be very difficult to do anything.

[Gesundheit2]

Not possible.

The best thing to do is to live with minimal ego. And there's no end to how small the ego can get (pun intended). Think of 1% ego and 0.000001% ego and 0.0000000001% ego, and so on.

[ZenSwift]

The ego is a necessary tool to survive.

I suppose the art of living consciously and with the most happiness possible is to master your survival to the point where you don't need much attachment to keep yourself alive with ease.

[AuroraDream]

Starting to wonder if this whole movement and spiritual practice of reducing the ego, was just a form trickery and gaslighting this whole time.... and now has become a widely regarded ceremonial practice.... but was actually just a trick to get people to undermine themselves...... and now its become a collective spiritual belief that this is a good thing.... Imagine believing that being a human being is a bad thing and should be somehow reduced..... while you're still a human. 

 

[Chrisd]

11 hours ago, AuroraDream said:

Starting to wonder if this whole movement and spiritual practice of reducing the ego, was just a form trickery and gaslighting this whole time.... and now has become a widely regarded ceremonial practice.... but was actually just a trick to get people to undermine themselves...... and now its become a collective spiritual belief that this is a good thing.... Imagine believing that being a human being is a bad thing and should be somehow reduced..... while you're still a human. 

 

To me no ego means you recognize other people are worthy of being, just like you. So humans aren't bad in any way. I don't really see how this is spirituality, it's just being human.

I think spirituality is about proving that we are consciousness, not a body.

Also about how to live happily in the moment.

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Chrisd

[Razard86]

12 hours ago, AuroraDream said:

Starting to wonder if this whole movement and spiritual practice of reducing the ego, was just a form trickery and gaslighting this whole time.... and now has become a widely regarded ceremonial practice.... but was actually just a trick to get people to undermine themselves...... and now its become a collective spiritual belief that this is a good thing.... Imagine believing that being a human being is a bad thing and should be somehow reduced..... while you're still a human. 

 

True Spirituality demonizes nothing. And explain to me how it is a trick? How is it a trick to tell you that you aren't separate? I could give loads of examples without using Spirituality.

For example you think your lungs are your lungs...they aren't plants are your lungs. If I destroy every plant on the planet you will suffocate.

I just showed how you are not separate, and any sense of separation is illusion and I did it on the relative level. I didn't even have to go Meta.

[AuroraDream]

@Razard86 i see a toxic side to this where people are seeking to undermine and take down their own egos becuase other people say they should

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, AuroraDream said:

@Razard86 i see a toxic side to this where people are seeking to undermine and take down their own egos becuase other people say they should

On 6/6/2022 at 3:19, TheOneReborn said:

 

people who do what you say will only succeed in substituting one ego for another, and also ridiculous and pedantic. people who really want to go beyond their ego is because they have realized that something is wrong , little by little they are seeing that they have deceived themselves, limited themselves, and they want to be free. the more aware they become of the prison, the more will there is to free themselves, until they give everything, sacrifice any attachments, since they are false, and truly free themselves.

[ZzzleepingBear]

It's more that you learn how to dance around it, rather than with it. If you tango with the ego, the ego will always blame you once you step on it's toe. It takes two to tango, but you are only two if you get tempted to dance with the ego.

[Waken]

IMO better to not focus on trying to get rid of anything, but focus on what you do want/makes you feel better. 

[actuallyenlightened]

I don't think you can physically exist as a human without an ego.