Are We Born Enlightened?

[Paan]

Hi, First of all, thank you Leo for your youtube channel and for making this forum!

 

My question is, are we born enlightened? With that I mean, are we humans supposed to be enlightened but we screwed up?

And how can you see and define if an other person is enlightened?

[Ayla]

25 minutes ago, Paan said:

are we humans supposed to be enlightened but we screwed up?

Yes, the purpose of life is to become enlightened. 

No, we did not "screw up". Consciousness is bringing us to different stages of evolution, then calls us "back home".

It's like a movie that starts and ends at the same point, but with many experiences in between. 

Consider this: First breath is in. Last breath is out. In between, all is a play of Consciousness. 

[Azrael]

1 hour ago, Paan said:

My question is, are we born enlightend? With that I mean, are we humans supposed to be enlightend but we screwed up?

That's an interesting question that Transpersonal psychology talks about. I just read a book about ego development "Michael Washburn - The Ego and the Dynamic Ground" and they think that you are not born enlightened.

They think that there are basically three different stages of ego development: the pre-egoic, the egoic, and the trans-egoic phase. The transpersonal phase is I think what we call enlightenment and is different from the pre-egoic phase because you are way more developed. However, the pre-egoic and the trans-egoic phase are both closer to let's say "The Source" than the egoic phase.

So, did we screw up?

Well, in western society maybe a little bit. Because our system is built in a way where ego development kind of stops when you are in the egoic phase. So most people die developmentally when they are 30 years old and get buried when they a 80 years old.

However, if I look at the Graves model, than actually this also is just a phase of society and if we don't blow ourselves up we will naturally go in the right direction.

[Paan]

good points @Ayla @Arik

Because I think alot about the purpose of it all, and to be honest I dont see any purpose to life more than just the being. All other purposes are ego thinking, man made. But on the other hand we have this that I call "the human protocol", we gotta have that built into us. How to act human, i mean, a lion gotta have its protocol to act the way its supposed to do. or am I wrong on that?

Then im thinking,, if all comes from this "nothingness" and we cant control it the way we want. why bother? Thoughts come from nothingness so our realisation about enlightment and all must come naturally beacause thats the new step of evolution. Its getting us where we need to go.

Sometimes I get so scared thinking about where we actually are, like really, where are we? and where am i going? If not on this earth for example then where? Those thoughts has scared me since i was very young. I remember first time, i got so scared I just fell to the floor, trying to grip my mind togheter. It happend in just a few seconds then it was like my ego came back and "saved" me. I have had this a few more times after that, but I really have to go meta on it.

we think we humans are special in a way more than other species but we are not, its just the ego telling us.

Hope you have my bad english in consideration when reading this (:

[Azrael]

28 minutes ago, Paan said:

Because I think alot about the purpose of it all, and to be honest I dont see any purpose to life more than just the being. All other purposes are ego thinking, man made.

Ultimately I'd agree there is no purpose because there doesn't need to be one, it's all just flowing, creating, dying or however one wants to conceptualize the real nature of it all. It always is just an incomplete mapping of it.

However, this fact also implies that everything is the purpose of life and so everything you want to create, pursue or do is just fine. Just do it. A lot of spiritual seeking people get this wrong, I guess. They think now that they're seekers they have to stop eating spicy food, stop playing videos games, stop taking part in this fucked up society - -, stop loving their families and loved ones because it's all "man made" ego thinking.

And yes it is. Leo made a whole episode about it. And it is useful to acknowledge that. But it is not different then seeking enlightenment. Because there is nobody to seek. There just is it. And I won't give it a name.

So, you don't have to throw all your preferences and needs away and just meditate like a monk. Instead, take meditation into your whole life and do all of the things with the understanding of what they really are. Just another creation of it. And as nice or ugly, good or bad, right or wrong as everything else that it does.

[Guest]

We are born as tabula rasa. A blank slate. We just have some animal instincts to survive like knowing how to drink breast milk out of breast and stuff. The rest depends on how spoiled your family and the community are.

[Neo]

OK, well I'm not enlightened, but here is my 2 cents...

Life evolved inside the oneness of what we call enlightenment, and developed strong survival mechanisms including the ego which does everything it can to maintain it's own existence for the survival of the being. Seeing past your own mind reveals the backdrop of reality as it really is.

 

[Rufus]

I think we are all born enlightened until we learn how to speak.
Then family comes to tell you what's right and what's wrong, then they take you to school to completely finish yourself   

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Paan said:

My question is, are we born enlightend?

This depends on what you mean by enlightened?

What is born must die.

@Pinocchio Yes.  Attention to mind games is a step backwards.

joy

[A way to Actualize]

12 hours ago, Ayla said:

Yes, the purpose of life is to become enlightened. 

How would we know so sure? There are many teachers discussing what the purpose of life is. 

There has been said:

• there is no purpose, you can make yourself one;
• discovering truth (in this case);
• co-creating;
• What you did want to experience before you were born (freedom, self-expression, truth etc.)
• desires rooted in intuïtion experienced during life;
• Transforming the world to a heart-centered consciousness for the well-being of all;
• etc.

There is some kind of truth to all of them, in different consciousness levels.

[Ayla]

5 minutes ago, A way to Actualize said:

How would we know so sure? There are many teachers discussing what the purpose of life is. 

There has been said:

• there is no purpose, you can make yourself one;
• discovering truth (in this case);
• co-creating;
• What you did want to experience before you were born (freedom, self-expression, truth etc.)
• desires rooted in intuïtion experienced during life;
• Transforming the world to a heart-centered consciousness for the well-being of all;
• etc.

There is some kind of truth to all of them, in different consciousness levels.

Because that who I am, is that who they are. I might just express it in different words that resonate with my current perspective. 

So how do I know? I am living in the subtle perfume of the happiness of being That. 

 

[Paan]

@walt in this exampel I mean enlightment as a flow, troubleless life were the ego isnt in your way.

[Paan]

Why do we have this suffering (ego illusion)when all we want is to get rid of it?

I have so many questions, this forum is really a great next step for me and for us who's on this path.

Ive always been trying to search for a sensation in my inner head but I can see now that it is much more than that. 

When Leo talked about that you shouldnt be the director of a movie but just to be the person watching it, in life it made all the difference for me. I got a whole other perspective of life, mindblowing.

[Ayla]

9 minutes ago, Paan said:

Why do we have this suffering (ego illusion)when all we want is to get rid of it?

I have so many questions, this forum is really a great next step for me and for us who's on this path.

Ive always been trying to search for a sensation in my inner head but I can see now that it is much more than that. 

When Leo talked about that you shouldnt be the director of a movie but just to be the person watching it, in life it made all the difference for me. I got a whole other perspective of life, mindblowing.

Suffering, Ego, Illusions, Questions, Movies... are all facets of consciousness.  

[DanoDMano]

14 hours ago, Paan said:

Hi, First of all, thank you Leo for your youtube channel and for making this forum!

 

My question is, are we born enlightened? With that I mean, are we humans supposed to be enlightened but we screwed up?

And how can you see and define if an other person is enlightened?

@Paan My opinion is an absolute yes we are. Unfortunately I'm sure that in a very short time it becomes cluttered by our surroundings and the dogma we're fed from the day we're born. It then becomes just a matter of time before all "truth and awareness" is lost deep within our consciousness and every new day just buries it deeper and deeper. (Imagine parents that taught us differently our potential)

I mentioned this in another post as well. I'm sure that the sooner you begin searching for enlightenment, the sooner you may find it, because the younger you are, the less shoveling and hard work it will take to get through the quagmire of our society and this orange way of thinking,     

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Paan said:

@walt in this exampel I mean enlightment as a flow, troubleless life were the ego isnt in your way.

Well, by this definition that you have thought up then yes you are born as a flow, troubleless and without ego.

joy