Not able to convince my mind

[Preety_India]

I'm very frustrated on this. And I'm falling short of insight despite contemplating for hours on end. 

I'm extremely conflicted between good and evil. 

It seems like my spiritual journey just cannot kickstart without this being fundamentally sorted out.. 

I constantly feel like good and evil are same 

 

But then again this conflicts with the social conditioning of the definition of evil. 

 

[Someone here]

@Preety_India You first tell me what you mean by 'evil', 'evil' to me is an intention placed into the act. But then still, killing an ant is the same as killing a baby. The reason society reacts differently to both acts is because in their perception of the subject 'humanity' (themselves) is more important than the other.

Good and evil are concerned with human notions of ethics and morality and are both relative and dynamic, in that they differ (sometimes significantly) between different cultures and are subject to periodic change and adaptation. Thus, good and evil are not absolute

  i think it has to depend on your  meaning of evil . does eating meat count as evil? you have to realize reality is neutral. evil and  good are projections .they are assigned by your mind. so ironically to be enlightened is to realize that everything is perfect already. but then of course undoubtedly if all people are "enlightened" there will be less relative evil . 

[gettoefl]

society defines evil in order to keep the people in line ... if you are in line then you can see the truth of it, that evil is simply my survival bias, if you disagree with me i brand you as evil - so speaks the unawake

god knows no evil since the people who commit evil have perfectly explainable reasons for doing so

they have no choice but to commit evil

(in fact there is no choice in anything; free will is only possible for the awakened)

Edited June 2, 2022 by gettoefl

[Preety_India]

@gettoefl I don't think that doing evil comes with a reason or justification. I get that doing evil might have specific needs for example revenge for hurt caused. 

I just think that there is always something good in evil too. 

Not all evil is bad. There are good parts of evil. 

For example if someone tried to hurt me, either I punish them or forgive them. 

Forgiving them expands my own awareness of understanding. 

 

[Carl-Richard]

I recently watched Bernardo Kastrup touch on this topic (one's relationship to good and evil) which you might find interesting:

37:25 - 51:45

 

[Preety_India]

@Carl-Richard I think it doesn't fully convince me. But Bernardo has an interesting psychological spin on the phenomenon of evil about how these shadow elements and urges can be intrinsic and they can be investigated and controlled rather than demonized. Valid points but still something feels missing. 

 

[Preety_India]

Source of evil 

• Instincts, impulses, and urges. 
• Revenge. Retribution 
• Jealousy
• Malice 
• Neuroticism 
• Psychopathy 
• Hypocrisy 
• Inability to embrace the shadow self 
• Mental illnesses 
• Temptation 
• Lack of love. 

 

[Preety_India]

@Carl-Richard some good nuggets. The undeveloped element of love. 

 

[Michael Jackson]

In the highest reality good and evil are indeed groundless distinctions that collapse in to the only thing that truly exists: True Goodness aka. Love.

Good and evil in our day to day lifes are completely relativistic distinctions we make. "Good" we call what serves our survival agenda, and "evil" is for us whatever threatens our survival.

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Michael Jackson said:

In the highest reality good and evil are indeed groundless distinctions that collapse in to the only thing that truly exists: True Goodness aka. Love.

Good and evil in our day to day lifes are completely relativistic distinctions we make. "Good" we call what serves our survival agenda, and "evil" is for us whatever threatens our survival.

Very good. Yes. It is very relative to definition. In the absence of such survival, we would not have such distinctions at all 

 

[Michael Jackson]

2 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Very good. Yes. It is very relative to definition. In the absence of such survival, we would not have such distinctions at all 

 

Indeed.:)

[Preety_India]

@Someone here well, would you like to imagine an enlightened guru to be insanely malicious and evil? 

My point is that it's easy to accept everything as perfect. But we don't/won't accept a guru who has his hands in deep evil. 

Why won't /don't  we accept it if everything is already perfect? 

 

[Someone here]

13 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Someone here well, would you like to imagine an enlightened guru to be insanely malicious and evil? 

My point is that it's easy to accept everything as perfect. But we don't/won't accept a guru who has his hands in deep evil. 

Why won't /don't  we accept it if everything is already perfect? 

 

Because we lack consciousness to see that it's all perfectly perfect.

 If everyone was at an advanced enough stage of enlightenment it would be as if the earth was one giant collective consciousness. Think of the ideal family who's values align so perfectly that there is never any issues. Now extend that family to everyone on the planet.   

At an advanced enough stage of enlightenment, all resistance to what is ceases. The duality between selfishness and selflessness is shattered. The idea of doing anything to harm another person seems ridiculous. The idea of taking from others to suit yourself seems counterproductive, because everyone IS you. Once you realize your groundless nature and your identity becomes completely fluid,  it makes more sense to abide as the entire earth rather than as an individual. You don't have to tell someone not to cut off their own arm haha.   

[Preety_India]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

At an advanced enough stage of enlightenment, all resistance to what is ceases. The duality between selfishness and selflessness is shattered. The idea of doing anything to harm another person seems ridiculous. The idea of taking from others to suit yourself seems counterproductive, because everyone IS you. Once you realize your groundless nature and your identity becomes completely fluid,  it makes more sense to abide as the entire earth rather than as an individual. You don't have to tell someone not to cut off their own arm haha.   

This sounds too idealistic to me 

We normally don't love someone so much. 

Survival precedes morality. 

 

[Someone here]

@Preety_India

For evil not to exist only the absence of your judgement is required - wich is one facet of enlightenment

 

[Preety_India]

@Someone here I did not talk about the existence of evil 

I talked about the nature of evil 

But you made a good point. 

If I don't judge there is no distinction. 

But saying this to a victim of evil won't be easy. 

 

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

But saying this to a victim of evil won't be easy

Thats true.  And that's why I said a radically different state of consciousness is required to recognize the beauty and perfection in what we call evil.

Don't get me wrong..reality would be a HELL of a lot better...no pun intended.  Crime would be nearly gone, war would be a thing of the past....  That would be a much more conscious, turquoise society, far more advanced - with Love/Pure Consciousness as its focal point.  Though not without its imperfections, it would be much like that highly advanced alien society you imagine is out there somewhere - or humanity in 1000 years.

[Preety_India]

@Someone here but if we were so good then evil would simply cease to exist and the idea of seeing the beauty and perfection in evil would not even exist. 

That's odd.

 

[Someone here]

@Preety_India

If every human was fully enlightened, would evil still exist?

In other words if every human was always fully aware that ALL IS ONE and ONE IS ALL then NO. Why would you harm yourself and diminish your own experience and prevent your own growth and expansion?  A fully enlightened being is always aware that separation is an illusion.

Sorry but I don't know how else to explain it to you.  So have a good day ,I guess 

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Preety_India

If every human was fully enlightened, would evil still exist?

In other words if every human was always fully aware that ALL IS ONE and ONE IS ALL then NO. Why would you harm yourself and diminish your own experience and prevent your own growth and expansion?  A fully enlightened being is always aware that separation is an illusion.

Sorry but I don't know how else to explain it to you.  So have a good day ,I guess 

 

In reality we can't operate on this principle. 

Because self preservation exists