How does God create separation?

[Godishere]

The most obvious answer is through illusion and that's clear in a non-dual state of consciousness. Still we have what trillions of selves here on earth? Animals, humans etc. And if I was awake right now I would probably say it's a complete fiction. All of these selves and my own self here on earth which are what seems through intuition, all derivatives of the same Self/awareness. 

So the question is how does the infinite create this separation because if we get two partitions of God e.g human 1 and human 2 both claiming to be God. One is currently the enlightened one and one isn't, if that makes sense? 

When does God live out the lives of these other selves? We can say "outside of time and space" and sure that makes sense. But you can easily argue God doesn't as there's only one thing that's an absolute fact- the present moment and everything else is imagination?

Edited June 2, 2022 by Godishere

[Razard86]

1 minute ago, Godishere said:

The most obvious answer is through illusion and that's clear in a non-dual state of consciousness. Still we have what trillions of selves here on earth? Animals, humans etc. And if I was awake right now I would probably say it's a complete fiction. All of these selves and my own self here on earth which are what seems through intuition, all derivatives of the same Self/awareness. 

So the question is how does the infinite create this separation because if we get two partitions of God e.g human 1 and human 2 both claiming to be God. One is currently the enlightened one and one isn't, if that makes sense? 

When does God live out the lives of these other selves? We can say "outside of time and space" and sure that makes sense. But you can easily argue God doesn't as there's only one thing that's True the present moment and everything else is imagination?

Seek the answer. 

[Godishere]

@Razard86 well I did and it just lead me back here?  Like if I didn't believe in other selves would I even be here writing on a forum? And that's my point, this is my seeking, conceptual or not. If I was awake I wouldn't be here or would I? ?

Lets be real, no one answers this question. We can say, it's because awakening is required which does make sense. But then you just fall back into the dream and start seeking again. Well I have anyway. And I know @VeganAwake will just say the one who seeks isn't real. Ok .. this experience is still happening to God/nothing. Still seems like I'm speaking to other selves derivative of my own Self.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Godishere

[michaelcycle00]

I have the exact same question(s). The easiest way out is to just assume solipsism. But it may not be the case since God, as me for example, michaelcycle00's POV, is not aware of himself being omnipotent and omniscient, among every other quality God possesses. I'm able to hide that from myself, so who's to say I can't also hide an infinitude of other selves/POVs? I guess you could say that what I'm talking about is a state and not a separate experience but at that point I'd say we're just arguing semantics. But time definitely poses a problem, especially when you account for its relativity. The question really is, do we share the same dream, or does every conscious observer create the present moment in a completely solipsistic way?

 

Maybe someone could shed light on this, preferably someone who's received insights related to this on a trip. 

[Godishere]

@michaelcycle00 yeap even Rupert Spira has basically dodged this question. He said something along the lines of "we can make an assumption that we are talking to other, finite localizations of consciousness, outside of time and space." This doesn't even make sense to me, and contradicts non duality. 

[Breakingthewall]

I have the same question, and I don't think it can be answered with solipsism. Yesterday I was looking at a stray cat, and it was obvious that it was reality experiencing itself.. there was no cat and reality, there was only an experience. The reality dancing with itself creating duality. but at the same time the cat was part of another experience: me. I was not an observer or an experiencer either, this is an illusion, there is no me, just an experience happening, and inside of it there is a cat, which in turn has an experience. Obviously the cat and everything else are imaginary. where is the cat now? I'm imagining it, the same as the others. But what it means? when I'm looking a cat, i perceive without any doubt another experience happening. In this forum, 3 weeks ago, everyone would have told me: it's obvious, only your current experience exists, the rest is imaginary, awake, but since appears another video of leo, that's no longer the...dogma?. There is no talk of solipsism, the easy way out. This was a solipsism forum since 3 weeks ago...and now?

[Razard86]

2 hours ago, Godishere said:

@Razard86 well I did and it just lead me back here?  Like if I didn't believe in other selves would I even be here writing on a forum? And that's my point, this is my seeking, conceptual or not. If I was awake I wouldn't be here or would I? ?

Lets be real, no one answers this question. We can say, it's because awakening is required which does make sense. But then you just fall back into the dream and start seeking again. Well I have anyway. And I know @VeganAwake will just say the one who seeks isn't real. Ok .. this experience is still happening to God/nothing. Still seems like I'm speaking to other selves derivative of my own Self.

You haven't seeked enough. There is a thing called Google. Do you know how much content there is on that topic? The Bible, tons of articles and E Books, Youtube, the list goes on. You didn't seek, you posed a question on a forum to get answers from those who have actually seeked. When Leo did his video on Infinity of Gods. I discovered there was actually a book with that same name that discussed that topic! Its on Amazon. 

So no...you didn't really seek. Because again there is a CRAP ton of content out there that you can explore. Majority of people that can give you the answer have actually done the seeking.

Ways you can seek.

1. Take a psychedelic and explore that concept yourself.

2. Do a google search and look for other sources.

3. Then you can share some of those sources while simultaneously asking people what they think.

You claim you sought....so where are the sources you can show us so we can add onto what they have stated.

I really need people to understand that Spirituality is a solo pursuit in which everyone you meet is a resource. But the ultimate authority IS YOU.

YOU are the authority, not Leo, not anyone on the forum....YOU. So the first thing you consult is yourself....then you look at other resources.

Your question was actually answered by Rupert Spira. Here is a link.

There is a famous phrase so Above so Below.

If God can imagine separation into existence of all things...can imagine separation of its true infinite nature as well.

So on a Meta level are there Multiple Gods? NO!! But is God able to imagine Multiple Gods into existence? YES. So Above, So Below.

Everything is a Mirror, because a Mirror...is INFINITE. Reality is an infinite mirror, It reflects back and forth at itself, never able to grasp itself.

Here is a website that discusses this as well.

https://www.mind-your-reality.com/true-self.html

Each single human is living an individual reality. So in your reality....you are literally the only being that exists. The Awareness that is controlling your dream....is GOD. So every single human in their reality is God. Think of a massive multiplayer online game and God is logging in to interact through that character with all the other characters. But ultimately....this separation is really an illusion.

Now understand....each perspective of that Character...is an INDIVIDUAL DREAM. Well all of creation...is dreaming.

So we have infinite Dreams going on as God is existing as EVERYTHING. Once you sit down and ponder it....it actually makes sense.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Razard86

[Batman]

First of all, there is no separation. So don't assume there is. Second, there are distinctions in Consciousness, so what you are actually asking is how distinctions are created? Well, for that you have to awaken to what is the nature of distinction. Of course, I could tell you that the nature of distinction (whether its created by the conceptual mind or the senses) is Nothing, but that doesn't help does it? You have to inquire on your own.

Btw, if you look for a self in you or in an other, can you find it? What is the perception/appearance of a self?

[RMQualtrough]

2 hours ago, Godishere said:

@michaelcycle00 yeap even Rupert Spira has basically dodged this question. He said something along the lines of "we can make an assumption that we are talking to other, finite localizations of consciousness, outside of time and space." This doesn't even make sense to me, and contradicts non duality. 

I've been considering this a lot. I'm now relatively far removed from the direct experiences, with rare flashbacks or insights.

But I consider this... You can't possibly have infinity plus other. Now, ALL forms, all experiences, are finite. Proveable, easy. These finite things cannot be outside of infinity (as said: infinity AND x is impossible).

So I think it is evident that infinity divides within itself. This is how things can even appear. If it didn't do this, things would never appear. Every single experience is finite.

You can definitively find that you are nothingness. We feel that is infinite of course, because we can certainly find that what we are is not limited in any time or space. But it can't be the entirety of infinity within this experience, because there are finite appearances happening.

SO, it might be more that these appearances are a division, and when the forms and experiences vanish, the illusion of separation is gone. But then of course there is not you there anymore... Rupert Spira said similar about a house that was built. The air inside the house and outside, it's the same air. But the construction of the house makes an appearance of there being an inside air and outside air. When the house is demolished, the apparent limitation is gone.......

I think that is right.

[ZzzleepingBear]

3 hours ago, Godishere said:

So the question is how does the infinite create this separation because if we get two partitions of God e.g human 1 and human 2 both claiming to be God. One is currently the enlightened one and one isn't, if that makes sense?

The separation is part of perception. Infinity and finite is the relationship that establish what we come to know as value. Value creates meaning. And meaning creates movement.

To give you a example. Imagine playing a teambased online game. If you learn the rules of the game and gain experience and learn things along the way, you become a more valuable player, not only yourself but for your whole team. You are restricted to play whitin certain rules in this game, but you have the ability to utilize and explore anything that isn't ruled out.

The rules of the game are consciously and carefully implimented inorder to create value. Despite the endless possibilities to create any kind of online game. Someone could create a teambased online game, where everyone who participate can push one button and win instantly. But who would even play such a game with no limitations in the firstplace, why even bother if all that was needed is to push one button to win?

So inorder to be concious of value within infinity, there needs to be certain imposed limitations of finite form, to be able to experience any bliss at all. What would unity even mean without seperation?

The Human form is a finite image of the infinity of forms that God can maintain at the same time. Just as the devices we use to communicate through here, may be vastly different builds. But electricity is the main source that unites all computers under the lable computer. Without electricity, there is no computer, no matter how perfectly built it is. It would never have been recognized as a computer without electricity.

 

[BlueOak]

By form. In watching forms god watches itself. Otherwise, there would be no distinction between anything and you'd observe nothing.

Form creates form.

Edited June 2, 2022 by BlueOak

[amanen]

You need to experience Absolute Solipsism.

Then you will realize all other people are inside your consciousness. And that you are personanally imagining all other people.