A little critique to Leo's style on the forum

[Someone here]

7 hours ago, Medhansh said:

I agree with the OP.

On one hand, I admire Leo's extraordinary efforts to-

1. Publish top-notch youtube videos for free.
2. Run a blog.
3. Actively reply on his self-help forum, giving customised advice for free.

But on the other hand, all this gets undermined when he acts like a dick. 

Some examples include- harsh and rude replies, a general arrogant tone, derogatory sarcasm, locking threads without any explanation whatsover, lack of empathy, etc.

Now I know that Leo already has a lot on his plate. Reading, assimilating, and replying to 5-10k words per day is no joke. I would not do it even if someone paid me for it. So I understand the difficulty of this job, and the tremendous responsibiltiy which comes with it.

But, this is a forum full of all kinds of people, with a significant percentage having mental health issues.

These actions by Leo can disturb such people for a few hours, days, or weeks even.

I can already hear the counter-argument coming up- "But it isn't Leo's responsibility to babysit me and take care of my mood swings, right?"

Yeah, it isn't. But also, it doesn't hurt to have a gentler approach, does it?

I mean, he's anyway putting in all the efforts- reading all posts, replying to many posts, etc.

Might as well do it in a gentler manner.

This .

I agree ? 

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Sorry ? How is It both?  

Short sweet & to the point responses have both possibilities of being understood or misunderstood.

Example:

One person might read that "death is imaginary" and go out and live life care free like there's no tomorrow doing something different every day....having an amazing life.

Another might jump from a tall building to see if it's true. 

The fact is if it's truly recognized that the sense of self is an illusion and nothing matters and death is imaginary..... there would be no one left that needs a point proven to them.

It would be THIS!

 

❤ 

Edited June 1, 2022 by VeganAwake

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Short sweet & to the point responses have both possibilities of being understood or misunderstood.

Example:

One person might read that "death is imaginary" and go out and live life care free like there's no tomorrow doing something different every day....having an amazing life.

Another might jump from a tall building to see if it's true. 

The fact is if it's truly recognized that the sense of self is an illusion and nothing matters and death is imaginary..... there would be no one left that needs a point proven to them.

It would be THIS!

 

❤ 

Yes so there is indeed a chance of misunderstanding and falling into the trap of blindly trusting the teacher. Which might make the student go out and do reckless things .

 I think that @Leo Gura should add to the guidelines of the forum the following :

Don’t blindly believe what I say. Don’t believe me because others convince you of my words. Don’t believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts. Don’t rely on logic alone, nor speculation. Don’t infer or be deceived by appearances. Do not give up your authority and follow blindly the will of others. This way will lead to only delusion. Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real.

Don’t blindly believe what teachers say. Don’t give up your authority and follow.

Don’t trust others to have your truth and your answers. Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real.

 

[VeganAwake]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Yes so there is indeed a chance of misunderstanding and falling into the trap of blindly trusting the teacher. Which might make the student go out and do reckless things .

 I think that @Leo Gura should add to the guidelines of the forum the following :

Don’t blindly believe what I say. Don’t believe me because others convince you of my words. Don’t believe anything you see, read, or hear from others, whether of authority, religious teachers or texts. Don’t rely on logic alone, nor speculation. Don’t infer or be deceived by appearances. Do not give up your authority and follow blindly the will of others. This way will lead to only delusion. Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real.

Don’t blindly believe what teachers say. Don’t give up your authority and follow.

Don’t trust others to have your truth and your answers. Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real.

 

Agreed

Yeah apparently Common Sense isn't that common.?

I'm just saying people shouldn't bite the hand that feeds them because they can't tell whether it's feeding them turkey dogs or ribeye steak. 

❤ 

[Someone here]

45 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:

Agreed

Yeah apparently Common Sense isn't that common.?

I'm just saying people shouldn't bite the hand that feeds them because they can't tell whether it's feeding them turkey dogs or ribeye steak. 

❤ 

Yes .According to Indian  tradition, the Buddha offered the answer on one of his many journeys: “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. ... Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.”

If you follow Buddha’s teachings then you don’t need trust. You hear what the teacher teaches and you go back to your practice. You verify everything the teacher teaches in your own practice. You don’t need to trust the teacher - you do need to trust yourself. And you need to trust the teachings. The teaching are not the same as the teacher.

Many spiritual traditions, especially those derived from hinduism, proscribe to the belief that one must completely submit to a Guru in order to achieve any spiritual anything. The Guru is the gate keeper - he will either let you in or he won't. The Guru is the supreme authority and the disciple submits to the Guru fully, completely, unquestioningly. That is supposed to be the only way to enlightenment. I personally disagree with that, so did Buddha.

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Someone here said:

Yes .According to Indian  tradition, the Buddha offered the answer on one of his many journeys: “Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. ... Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.”

If you follow Buddha’s teachings then you don’t need trust. You hear what the teacher teaches and you go back to your practice. You verify everything the teacher teaches in your own practice. You don’t need to trust the teacher - you do need to trust yourself. And you need to trust the teachings. The teaching are not the same as the teacher.

Many spiritual traditions, especially those derived from hinduism, proscribe to the belief that one must completely submit to a Guru in order to achieve any spiritual anything. The Guru is the gate keeper - he will either let you in or he won't. The Guru is the supreme authority and the disciple submits to the Guru fully, completely, unquestioningly. That is supposed to be the only way to enlightenment. I personally disagree with that, so did Buddha.

Haha yeah and in that sense you can't even listen to so-called buddha teachings/recommendations.

Enlightenment is just not a something that a someone can give or not give you.

It's a loss..... it's absolutely not a gaining of anything!!

Q) So what's lost?

A) The sense of self that is convinced enlightenment is something that is attained for itself. It's the clear revelation that this self simply never happened....it just seemed to.

 

❤ 

 

 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, VeganAwake said:

Haha yeah and in that sense you can't even listen to so-called buddha teachings/recommendations.

Enlightenment is just not a something that a someone can give or not give you.

It's a loss..... it's absolutely not a gaining of anything!!

Q) So what's lost?

A) The sense of self that is convinced enlightenment is something that is attained for itself. It's the clear revelation that this self simply never happened....it just seemed to.

 

❤ 

 

 

 I know you are a fan of this whole "no self" movement that is becoming the spiritual trend these days.  But in my experience there is a difference between the ego self (the false self which is illusory) and the true Self (we might call it God or Love or Infinity or whatever ).

And i know you are allergic to this notion of "true self " and you call it "spiritual ego ", but please keep an open mind . You might be missing something significant and your awakening might be lacking .

Enlightenment is both a gaining and a losing process. You lose your false self and gain the true infinite Self .

The ego doesn't go away with enlightenment. Ego is a deep and fundamental aspect of mental operation. Its Rather a projected self image, which you had taken to be real, is seen as an illusion. There is no doer. You see how the ego program works. A feeling like pride arises from it, and you realize that emotion makes no sense.

It is not the ego that needs to die, but its illusory beliefs. Both enlightenment and death are creations of the egoic mind. The truth is, neither really exist, you only think they do!

Your task in awakening to the truth of your existence is not to rid yourself of ego, but to purify it and to live in harmony with it.

you call it enlightenment, then it is so…. If you call it realization… it is so… it does not matter what you call it…

Now this How part :

It is very simple ,Hold on to something that is eternal, Whatever is temporary, drop it… you will find the Self eventually.

Even this “how” is also illusion and temporary….. when you sleep, where this “how” goes!

“How” is also the mind…. And mind is Maya, illusion…. By searching “how”, you are creating a distance from the self….. if the “how” is gone… well you can drop it in a second or in few lifetimes, that's your choice of the mind .but if this “how” is gone and the mind stops to hold on to this thought of “how”… what remains is the Self.

 

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Someone here

[Razard86]

On 5/30/2022 at 9:04 PM, Breakingthewall said:

many people with thousands, or millions of followers who listen to their ideas, would acquire a kind attitude with condescending touches, allowing their favorite students the privilege of being close to their energy, and so on. Leo is impertinent, harsh, unpleasant, even tyrannical. my opinion: he does this to preserve its primary and essential value: total integrity. without total integrity you are a clown, and he knows it. he doesn't want to be a shadguru-type clown, he doesn't want to give up to his freedom. His harsh behavior is detachement. 

That is an interesting take. Sadhguru calls himself a slave. They say when you become a celebrity you lose your freedom. As you can see the creator of this forum....made an entire thread of how Leo NEEDS TO BE. The irony is he doesn't realize that he is being tyrannical and judgmental and trying to pressure Leo to conform to his ideal of how Leo should be.

When you become a public figure....people try to force you to fit the image they have of you in their minds. Its very fascinating. 

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

forum....made an entire thread of how Leo NEEDS TO BE. The irony is he doesn't realize that he is being tyrannical and judgmental and trying to pressure Leo to conform to his ideal of how Leo should be.

When you become a public figure....people try to force you to fit the image they have of you in their minds. Its very fascinating. 

I'm not telling leo how he should act . Its his forum after all and he could run it whichever way appeals to him. I was just giving my thoughts on areas where he can improve his communication with members and not degrade them so much .There are structural reasons teachers have too much work to do, and not enough time to do it. Districts do not prioritize work or collaboration time and continuously pile on more responsibilities. But today I’m not writing about what districts and administrators can and should do .I'm only suggesting. 

[VeganAwake]

9 hours ago, Someone here said:

 I know you are a fan of this whole "no self" movement that is becoming the spiritual trend these days.  But in my experience there is a difference between the ego self (the false self which is illusory) and the true Self (we might call it God or Love or Infinity or whatever ).

And i know you are allergic to this notion of "true self " and you call it "spiritual ego ", but please keep an open mind . You might be missing something significant and your awakening might be lacking .

Enlightenment is both a gaining and a losing process. You lose your false self and gain the true infinite Self .

The ego doesn't go away with enlightenment. Ego is a deep and fundamental aspect of mental operation. Its Rather a projected self image, which you had taken to be real, is seen as an illusion. There is no doer. You see how the ego program works. A feeling like pride arises from it, and you realize that emotion makes no sense.

It is not the ego that needs to die, but its illusory beliefs. Both enlightenment and death are creations of the egoic mind. The truth is, neither really exist, you only think they do!

Your task in awakening to the truth of your existence is not to rid yourself of ego, but to purify it and to live in harmony with it.

you call it enlightenment, then it is so…. If you call it realization… it is so… it does not matter what you call it…

Now this How part :

It is very simple ,Hold on to something that is eternal, Whatever is temporary, drop it… you will find the Self eventually.

Even this “how” is also illusion and temporary….. when you sleep, where this “how” goes!

“How” is also the mind…. And mind is Maya, illusion…. By searching “how”, you are creating a distance from the self….. if the “how” is gone… well you can drop it in a second or in few lifetimes, that's your choice of the mind .but if this “how” is gone and the mind stops to hold on to this thought of “how”… what remains is the Self.

 

 

Lots of stories bro!

 

❤