A little critique to Leo's style on the forum

[Someone here]

I think we all agree that Leo on YouTube is not Leo in the forum.  He doesn't show more than 10% of his actual potential and intelligence and intellectual capacity as you see him on YouTube talking for 3 hours straight about the most complicated topics. 

I want to understand why?  Why Leo doesn't put much effort in his replies instead of these shorts nuggets that he throw here and there.  Its rare to find Leo replying in more than 5 lines .

also his somewhat arrogant an non- compassionate style.  I hate it when Leo locks a thread and then leave the last post an insult to the OP and say something along the lines " watch out or I will kick you out of here ". Like why use this tone with your followers and supporters (almost everyone here loves and supports Leo and his work ,otherwise they wouldn't be here).

I don't resonate with Leo's content on his forum . He doesn't engage people in the forum other than a short message and in  most times its about pick up . It seems he doesn't embody his own teachings and is more so intellectualizing them. He's a genius in my view, but doesn't embody nor engage his questioners on a level that Eckhart Tolle or Rupert Spira would. 

@Leo Gura I hope you can clarify a bit your attitude towards this forum and your fans.

thank you 

[Yarco]

He's not an Eckhart Tolle woo-woo teacher and never claimed to be. He's one of those Zen masters who hits you with a stick when you start to fall asleep or answer a question wrong. Being forward and upfront is a teaching style, if you don't like it you're might be better suited to another teacher.

If I had to guess, some of this attitude may have been from being on old forums back in the day. Check out his video "How I Lost 65 Pounds in 5 Months" where he references one of these posts @ 15m34s... I get the same kind of vibe from some of the stuff he writes here today.

"Shut up. Who the hell are you to whine to me? Shut up already! Stop boring me with your stories. Don't give me your little stories."

He's in a tough position and I don't envy it. Most of the actual spiritually advanced people who watch him don't waste their time making thousands of posts on forums. They're actually doing the work, or at least have fulfilling enough lives that they don't need to waste their time arguing with people on the internet. So in some sense, I'd guess that most of us here are among the worst people that watch Leo's videos, slightly above those who just stay in Youtube comments and don't have the agency to make their way over here. You have to admit that most of us say pretty dumb stuff and ask dumb questions here. Reading dumb posts for years on end because you feel like you have an obligation to your community, I'd be pretty short-tempered sometimes too.

That being said I get the concerns you have and I do see room for improvement. After the last big forum shakeup, I recall him saying he would try better to make higher-quality posts and be more empathetic. Personally I haven't seen a change for the better but maybe this post will be a chance to try and recalibrate. Or maybe just take a step back from the forum for a couple weeks or something.

Like a paying customer suggested a certificate of completion for the life purpose course and he just replied "No" 

On the plus side, just the fact you can make a post like this without it getting immediately locked or you getting banned is the sign of a good leader, it's not like he rules the forum with an iron fist. I deserve to have been banned about 5x over by now  He is a benevolent and loving God. Sometimes love means giving someone a non-compassionate response.

I do think a lot of the disagreements, problems, resentment, and inter-member hostility would just go away if we got rid of the politics section. That's where I see most of the kind of arrogance and non-compassionate style you're referencing. That whole section a big distraction and impediment to this work. Imagine if we just got rid of it and went back to the core of what Actualized.org was originally about. No politics, no current events.... if we won't still be talking about something 2 years from now, then it's probably not worth talking about at all. (inb4 "No")

[Someone here]

⁷@Yarco

In my opinion Leo is the best spiritual teacher out there. 

I also see why he rubs people the wrong way. It's because he's extremely blunt and to the point leaving virtually no room for game playing/mental masturbation. With Leo, either you're serious or you're not and there's no middle ground. No room for running in circles for years and years never having your bubble broken.

not sure if that's a good thing or bad thing .probably both .

[puporing]

I don't know all the answers but one problem with your proposal is that he might get swarmed by messages from people which would be a huge undertaking of his time. Just think about it, someone acting in a way that indicates availability and acting compassionately all the time is going to get swarmed.  

[Yarco]

There's also a reason people say "Never meet your heroes."

Maybe Sadhguru and Eckhart Tolle are dicks too. Maybe you'd think most people are dicks if you interacted with them enough. The difference is you'll never know, you don't get to personally interact with Sadhguru or Tolle 1-on-1 on a forum, you can't @ him for his opinions on every topic under the sun.

Remember first and foremost you don't really know Leo, you just have a parasocial 1-dimensional idea of what you think he is like from his videos. That's maybe where most of the disconnect is coming from -- scripted videos vs authentic off-the-cuff comments. Aside from Youtube videos, comments you see here, little clips on his blog of him out at the club... you have no idea what he's really like 95% of the time. Nobody can live up to being that infallible guru that you watch deliver a lesson for 1-2 hours a week.

[Someone here]

@puporing

 Could be. I'm definitely not saying my opinion is correct. It only comes from my personal level of consciousness.  I'm also biased because Leo got me to where I am now, which in my mind, is a solid place. I'll admit that I'm a bit of a Leo fan boy.

And about anything He's said/done recently about recruitment conspiracies and banning people.. That's all just human drama, and I have no interest in it.

I think anybody who uses this forum will be in a pretty good place whether they listen to Leo or not. But I think Leo should work a little bit on his attitude when dealing with his fans here. Maybe more respectful tone. Give more than one-liners to deep complicated topics etc 

[puporing]

@Someone here You're kinda putting him on a pedestal. This forum is free to access for one and there's not even a limit to how many posts you can make or questions you can ask. Therefore we cannot dictate how he chooses to be on this forum. Maybe he wants to show a side of himself that he normally can't and not make everything about "work". Careful what you wish for and turning this place in to "work" for him.

There are enough people who respond to posts with more than one liners that you don't really need more. There's already enough complacency where people don't even watch his videos and come with very obvious questions if they have.

And then there're ones who get plenty of suggestions and advice like seeing a therapist or work on moving out of their abusive situations, and they simply don't want to. I don't think that would change even if Leo was being super nice. If anything it would probably cause even more procrastination.

Edited May 30, 2022 by puporing

[Federico del pueblo]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

I want to understand why?  Why Leo doesn't put much effort in his replies instead of these shorts nuggets that he throw here and there.  Its rare to find Leo replying in more than 5 lines .

Think about it. Do you know how much time that would take if Leo always wrote long well thought out replies?

He's got a 36k post count, writes many replies every day.

That's a lot of work already.

[Someone here]

10 minutes ago, Yarco said:

There's also a reason people say "Never meet your heroes."

Maybe Sadhguru and Eckhart Tolle are dicks too. Maybe you'd think most people are dicks if you interacted with them enough. The difference is you'll never know, you don't get to personally interact with Sadhguru or Tolle 1-on-1 on a forum, you can't @ him for his opinions on every topic under the sun.

Remember first and foremost you don't really know Leo, you just have a parasocial 1-dimensional idea of what you think he is like from his videos. That's maybe where most of the disconnect is coming from -- scripted videos vs authentic off-the-cuff comments. Aside from Youtube videos, comments you see here, little clips on his blog of him out at the club... you have no idea what he's really like 95% of the time. Nobody can live up to being that infallible guru that you watch deliver a lesson for 1-2 hours a week.

 

6 minutes ago, puporing said:

@Someone here You're kinda putting him on a pedestal. This forum is free to access for one and there's not even a limit to how many posts you can make or questions you can ask. Therefore we cannot dictate how he chooses to be on this forum. Maybe he wants to show a side of himself that he normally can't and not make everything about "work". Careful what you wish for and turning this place in to "work" for him.

There are enough people who respond to posts with more than one liners that you don't really need more. There's already enough complacency where people don't even watch his videos and come with very obvious questions if they have.

 

5 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

Think about it. Do you know how much time that would take if Leo always wrote long well thought out replies?

He's got a 36k post count, writes many replies every day.

That's a lot of work already.

That's fine, but it doesn't really help people to awaken, so it wouldn't be appropriate behavior for a teacher. spirituality and enlightenment are only unserious when people are far enough along to see that. For newbies and even fairly advanced people, these things are very serious, and treating it like a joke only causes confusion. 

Leo doesn't treat most of us seriously .he just spread one-liners here and there and he oversimplified a lot of things that need further explanation. He do it in his videos .the dude can talk off the cuff for fucking 4 hours without losing track .why doesn't he show his full potential in the forum as well ?

 

[Matthew85]

Leo receives hundreds and some weeks thousands of messages. It's not possible for him to write an in depth detailed reply to each one. He does the best that he can. 

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Matthew85 said:

Leo receives hundreds and some weeks thousands of messages. It's not possible for him to write an in depth detailed reply to each one. He does the best that he can. 

This is not a valid excuse . After all that's the nature of his work .he should be fine with writing long ass replies when things need to be clarified in more depth. Which he rarely does .

[Matthew85]

Rather than criticizing maybe perhaps try to see what it would be like to have thousands of people messaging you seeking your advice and help. He is one person, he doesn't have a big staff to help him. Try appreciating all he offers and gives us instead of criticizing. Also, he has discussed many times the trap of people becoming to reliant on a teacher or guru instead of doing the work to find the answers within themselves. With all he has offered, if he vanished today you could contemplate and work with his content for many years and continue to derive more insights from it. 

[puporing]

21 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Leo doesn't treat most of us seriously .he just spread one-liners here and there and he oversimplified a lot of things that need further explanation. He do it in his videos .the dude can talk off the cuff for fucking 4 hours without losing track .why doesn't he show his full potential in the forum as well ?

Why should you expect that in the first place? Are you consistently doing the work. Because I can promise you you don't need him to reply for like 99% of the work. It's already out there. Not only his videos. The booklist. How many people read books on his booklist? Wisdom from other "teachers", have you dug into them? If you did all that and contemplation, heal any remaining wounds, deconstruct everything and take a psychedelic the awakenings will happen. At the least, you'd be able to ask the kinds of questions that will get his attention and his help and I've seen it.

[Someone here]

@Matthew85 of course I like him and learn from him a lot .that's why I'm here on this forum after all .

But I'm talking about basic civility.  statements  like " I will kick you out of here " when locks a thread is really disrespectful for the members .he can  use more gentle language when is giving a chance to a member or else he will ban him.

[Matthew85]

@Someone here I hear ya. Well, you have to remember Leo is working to embody his insights and teachings as well. Try to have some patience with him. He is learning and evolving as all of us are. 

[puporing]

Yes in his latest video he did mention that he is not that perfect list he gave and is growing in that aspect.

This is an exercise in and of itself. That we should work to accept someone where they're at, not needing something from them.

Edited May 30, 2022 by puporing

[Loba]

I think he could work on his Fe a bit more, if he did, his followers would start to as well and then this place would be warm, welcoming, etc.

I think a lot of people here, me included are lost on how to properly use Fe - I didn't learn it growing up.  I don't exist in an environment at home that promotes kind behaviour either.  It is strict and very verbally rude, on all sides.

It would be interesting to go on an Fe journey with everyone.

My main thing is his comments about women make me feel insecure.  If he could be more respectful towards that, as someone here who isn't a perfect woman by any means, I think he needs to be more lenient towards his expectations of women in the world.  We don't live in a woman's world.  It's hard to learn to be feminine.

 

[Oeaohoo]

Leo is probably just busy doing more important things. He still has a little bit of the moronic American Tony Robbins style preacher in him, but I’m sure that will fade in time - no way that can survive a psychedelic onslaught! Besides, forums - and particularly Internet forums - encourage stupidity.

If you ever met an enlightened person, you might be surprised at how conventionally “rude” they can be.

9 hours ago, Yarco said:

I do think a lot of the disagreements, problems, resentment, and inter-member hostility would just go away if we got rid of the politics section. That's where I see most of the kind of arrogance and non-compassionate style you're referencing. That whole section a big distraction and impediment to this work. Imagine if we just got rid of it and went back to the core of what Actualized.org was originally about. No politics, no current events.... if we won't still be talking about something 2 years from now, then it's probably not worth talking about at all. (inb4 "No")

Politics and personal development are not separable. As Aristotle demonstrated, personal development leads naturally into politics: ‘Every state is as we see a sort of partnership, and every partnership is formed with a view to some good (since all the actions of all mankind are done with a view to what they think to be good). It is therefore evident that, while all partnerships aim at some good the partnership that is the most supreme of all and includes all the others does so most of all, and aims at the most supreme of all goods; and this is the partnership entitled the state, the political association.’ And: ‘To live alone, one must be either a beast or a God’!

Actualized was originally about very low-level self-help advice. The level of content has advanced tremendously since the early days

8 hours ago, Loba said:

My main thing is his comments about women make me feel insecure.  If he could be more respectful towards that, as someone here who isn't a perfect woman by any means, I think he needs to be more lenient towards his expectations of women in the world.  We don't live in a woman's world.  It's hard to learn to be feminine.

 

In many ways it is a very feminised world: materialism (from mater, the mother), egalitarianism (the Great Mother cults in antiquity were particularly popular amongst the lower classes, and she was celebrated for her tolerance and inclusion of all), the obsession with sex and the woman as lust object, the triumph of sentimentality over rationality, the fetishisation of the outsider and of the marginalised, and so on. But, I agree, in many other ways it is a brutal Hobbesian dog-eat-dog pit of false bravado and fake masculinity.

It is nobody’s world. That is why women think it’s a man’s world and men think it’s a woman’s world.

[Gesundheit2]

Don't act entitled. We're lucky that he's even participating here and engaging with all this nonsense.

[Someone here]

11 hours ago, Matthew85 said:

@Someone here I hear ya. Well, you have to remember Leo is working to embody his insights and teachings as well. Try to have some patience with him. He is learning and evolving as all of us are. 

What? Leo always present himself as the most woke teacher ever . He always claim that he have accessed state of consciousness that no other human being have accessed in the entire history of mankind  . And now you say he is still learning?   . This is confusing and conflicting. 

The issue isn't Leo accessing some radical states of consciousness. It's his huge messiah complex and him acting like an a hole. Especially whenever he locks a thread. He always leave a harsh comment like "I will ban you " or "I will kick you outtta here ", . I'm just wondering why he is not more gentle with his followers.