Circumventing chains of causation to awakenings

[Matthew85]

11 hours ago, amanen said:

I've come to the same conclusion.

It has nothing to do with the drug, it has all to do with you.

I have yet to find a more direct mean than psychedelics though, yet I know this should be theoretically possible.

I don't know how to get rid of the required backstory of supposedly taking a drug to increase your consciousness level

@amanen Well, I think the belief that it is possible is the first step. There are instances of people having instantaneous profound shifts in their state of consciousness, they just are rare. 

[Matthew85]

13 hours ago, Rokazulu said:

Anything is possible, not everything is probable.

I assume if you haven't experienced that state now, it is because something in you— doesn't want the immediate experience, despite what is in you that does. Some call this a necessary gradual ascension. In other words, the body needs to prepare itself by building up the necessary conscious energy to take on the enormous vibration, of which you speak.

Then the probability of an instant shift becomes much more likely.

@Rokazulu Good point! I have experienced the state, I just haven't been able to sustain it. I am not opposed to a more gradual process. There can a lot of joy and discovery in that process as well. It just once I awakened to realize I was imagining my limitations, lack of awareness, and these processes to awaken, I began to contemplate the possibility of a more instant shift in my state of consciousness. I agree with your point about the body being prepared to hold the energy though. 

[Proserpina]

@Benton Thank you for the advice! I'll definitely look into the chakras and the throat chakra. 

I figure I need to work on my baseline but I can easily reach high levels of consciousness through meditation which would melt away the hellish realms , so I don't think that's the issue. Even if at first the hell would meld around it, the last war cries from the hell beings. I think my issue is inexperience and being intimidated by the final war cries. I get too skittish too easily, when I have nothing to be afraid of.  That's what I was told. 

What's the saying? It's the darkest before the dawn. That was very true for me.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Proserpina

[bambi]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I mean the deepest form of imagining which spawns what you call material reality, like the walls of your house.

Infinite consciousness can spawn hell realms as real as the walls of your house. You already know this because you've had nightmares. Now just imagine your nightmares come to life.

Why? Because consciousness is everything imaginable. And hell is imaginable.

But there is no purpose for God to do this. In the same way I can take my hand and put it on a stove until its all ash, and then my arm, then my leg, then my face, and burn myself slowly to death; I dont? Why because that would be fucking stupid

Just because God could possibly imagine an infinite hell, that would be completely stupid, God would be a moron, which it clear isn't. You are robbing all intelligence from God

If I have enough intelligence not to do it, and I am God, then God also has enough intelligence not to do it

Have you ever experienced this infinite hell? No. 

[bambi]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no worst or bad from God's POV. Hell is as good as heaven.

If you were truly interested in consciousness you would not shy away from exploring hell. Then again, you also wouldn't get stuck and it wouldn't bother you.

Thats like saying if you are truly interested in exploring yourself and life, you would torture and mutilitate yourself but you wouldnt get stuck doing it, just enough to completely disable you in pain for 5 years. Do you see the nonsensical nature of this

[bambi]

11 minutes ago, Benton said:

@bambi Suffering and ecstacy are equivalent in Gods eyes. 
You are too identified with being human for this to seem appealing to you.

 God loves himself infinitely. And that includes his suffering. 

Either you are God or you aren;t, and if you are, you can answer these questions, and if you arent you can't

Think about what you are saying, God would consciously chose to create suffering for no purpose, thats not how this works lol, thats an insult to the intelligence

[The0Self]

On 5/29/2022 at 1:08 PM, Matthew85 said:

Since all of the different methods we utilize to have insights and awakenings are being imagined by us to justify a shift in our state, there should be an even more direct route. We should just as easily be able to circumvent or bypass all these steps we create and just experience the shift now. We are already awakened and imagining that we aren't. Have any of you had success in bypassing any chains of causation? If so, how did you achieve it? Was is just a matter of intention, conviction and focus? 

In a sense, yes. It's all about unyielding passion for unfiltered reality, calling upon unseen powerful forces that come to your aid. All your desire must be concentrated down to one single point -- that's what drives you to awaken.

But first, it's important to point out: The goal of self inquiry is not about getting rid of a self. It's not even about finding out clearly that there is no self... It's about a shift in identity, which takes the process the rest of the way. That first awakening is very much not no-self or abiding nondual awareness -- it's universal Self.

With that said, the universal Self or knower, which must be clarified with self inquiry for awakening to happen, was actually accessible the whole time... it just was almost impossible to see without having exhausted the objective looking... ALMOST impossible... The truth is, it's already all there is to any experience -- illuminating it. It's what you are. It's knowing without any objective knowing. However, any thought (that which appears to be other than me; that which I am aware of) will distract from this, and so... With simple reference to anything and everything that appears to me: It's not reality -- it's something of which I am aware. The thought-overlay is not just thoughts in your head -- it's anything that appears to you... The illusory inner-world screen pervades all of experience without your knowledge, making reality seem as other than it is.

Seeking, by definition, means "if I'm aware of it, it's not what I'm looking for" (if what you're aware of is what you're looking for, then you wouldn't be seeking now would you?), so just bring that out in the open and apply it to self inquiry -- whatever I am aware of, it's not me / not what I'm looking for. Instead of allowing doership-effort to waste energy by putting all its energy into hiding itself, just bring it out in the sunlight and allow it to authentically do what it's programmed to do -- if I'm aware of it, it's not what I'm looking for; take the effort away from doership in the world, and apply it either to looking for what is aware (rest in the knowing requiring no object; not the same as focusing on it, because if you're focusing on it you're aware of it, and if you're aware of it then it's not you), or to relaxing all voluntary effort other than the effort to do just that i.e. release any effort when you notice it (if something is already happening, stopping it voluntarily would be an example of an effort that you should release when you notice it).

Edited June 2, 2022 by The0Self

[bambi]

Just now, Benton said:

@bambi You are God. But you do not realize it.

No I do, and thats why I am telling you the stupidity of your proposition of pointless infinite suffering, thats an insult to Gods intelligence

[Galyna]

On 5/29/2022 at 0:08 PM, Matthew85 said:

Since all of the different methods we utilize to have insights and awakenings are being imagined by us to justify a shift in our state, there should be an even more direct route. We should just as easily be able to circumvent or bypass all these steps we create and just experience the shift now. We are already awakened and imagining that we aren't. Have any of you had success in bypassing any chains of causation? If so, how did you achieve it? Was is just a matter of intention, conviction and focus? 
 

 

btw, Dispenza took “me” even further. His book supernatural. After reading it and still reading, I came to this big realization. 
By practicing and meditating,  I have realized the secret of manifestation. 
the core of it is still that there is no other…

I will post my insight shortly. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Galyna

[Proserpina]

@bambi To get to that state at all requires a deep love for the Self. You can become forgetful though, lost. But not truly lost, you always have the capacity to reawaken. 

The man who accompanied me was called 'Moses'. I swear to God he was like a biblical figure who simply got lost along the way.  

[Proserpina]

God does what it does, knowing it can get lost or forget.  

[Matthew85]

@The0Self Thank you! Your reply was very helpful.

9 hours ago, The0Self said:

But first, it's important to point out: The goal of self inquiry is not about getting rid of a self. It's not even about finding out clearly that there is no self... It's about a shift in identity, which takes the process the rest of the way. That first awakening is very much not no-self or abiding nondual awareness -- it's universal Self.

Yes. I have already experienced the universal expanded self. This is not so much my goal currently because I wouldn't be able to function as a human in that state. There is another state I have accessed that is a step down from this. I'm not sure what to call it. I feel very expansive and connected to everything, but I am still Matthew and able to fully enjoy life and the human experience. But all my fears and concerns are gone. I feel very empowered and tremendous joy and appreciation for everything. My goal is to achieve sustaining this state. 

[Matthew85]

6 hours ago, Galyna said:

btw, Dispenza took “me” even further. His book supernatural. After reading it and still reading, I came to this big realization. 
By practicing and meditating,  I have realized the secret of manifestation. 
the core of it is still that there is no other…

I will post my insight shortly. 

@Galyna Looking forward to hearing your insights. I am glad his books are resonating with you. 

[bambi]

11 hours ago, Proserpina said:

@bambi To get to that state at all requires a deep love for the Self. You can become forgetful though, lost. But not truly lost, you always have the capacity to reawaken. 

The man who accompanied me was called 'Moses'. I swear to God he was like a biblical figure who simply got lost along the way.  

No this is a big misconception, lol

 

There is no chaos, or nothing happening that isn't already known by God, its pseudo. God can try to infinitely deceive itself such it appears cchaotically and random, but thats only to you, the small self or ego, God knows precisely what it is doing

 

This is something @Leo Gura is also seeemingly missing, there is nothing random about your life, or what has been happening to since your birth (materialist will say it is) In fact its the complete opposite, you are in a highly intelligent organised game, designed by yourSelf for your self, thats precisely why you are all on this forum, it isnt be just random chance lol

 

This notion of God creating pointless infinite suffering is nonsense, you can suffer all right, but it precisely in this life now, not some other hell dimension, and your suffering will be down to you not God, and your suffering will lead you precisely back to God, such that you cant possibly stay in this suffering 'infinitely' lol

[Galyna]

10 hours ago, Matthew85 said:

@Galyna Looking forward to hearing your insights. I am glad his books are resonating with you. 

Yep, will do on the weekend. Want to know what our community thinks. 
This book absolutely resonates with me. A door to a freedom, I recognized that I can be a free creator.

thanks for your advise. ?

[Matthew85]

On 6/1/2022 at 0:50 PM, Leo Gura said:

Don't take sanity for granted. Most people's minds are so toxic and out of control, if their thoughts could materialize they would be living in a self-created hellscape of madness.

@Leo Gura This is a very individual thing. I experience instant manifestation in my dreams while sleeping all the time and the vast majority of my dreams are very enjoyable.