Circumventing chains of causation to awakenings

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Just seems arbitrary 

very mysterious 

It's not so arbitrary. You just take for granted that God is responsible for maintaining your sanity.

If you could easily break material reality you would quickly go insane.

Don't take sanity for granted. Most people's minds are so toxic and out of control, if their thoughts could materialize they would be living in a self-created hellscape of madness.

You guys have no idea the things consciousness is capable of. Straight up madness and horror, if your mind is not pure. You think your life sucks now? Wait till you experience infinite hell.

[Someone here]

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not so arbitrary. You just take for granted that God is responsible for maintaining your sanity.

If you could easily break material reality you would quickly go insane.

Don't take sanity for granted. Most people's minds are so toxic and out of control, if their thoughts could materialize they would be living in a self-created hellscape of madness.

You guys have no idea the things consciousness is capable of. Straight up madness and horror, if your mind is not pure. You think your life sucks now? Wait till you experience infinite hell.

Did you experience any hell Realms in one of your psychedelic trips ?  

I remember one of the members here had a hellish experience on salvia before  where he said that the trip ripped him apart . He said (I'm quoting him here): "It showed me worlds that are so beyond this one that describing even the tiniest part could fill 500 books and not get even remotely close. It showed me all levels of existence, and then threw me out of them as if they're nothing. It's simply unimaginable, no words could come close, or touch this experience in any way imaginable. If you've ever done some psychedelic and broken through, multiply that by a million and it's still a tame experience in comparison. It breaks reality. This experience happened more than a decade ago and I'm still collecting the pieces. I honestly have no idea what the fuck happened. It's hard to talk about because while I faintly remember the experience, I just know I can't English it because it would be like trying to stick a fork into the moon.

I know this doesn't help much but I literally can't share the experience not because I don't want to but because it was out of this world and as such, unable to be mapped to any concept from this world. If you ask me, it was beyond even death. I was infinity, forever. How I ever found a way back to my body is a mystery. It was the weirdest thing that ever happened to me by a factor of one trillion.

This should go without saying but please do NOT take Salvia. I haven't benefited much from this experience, other than being shown that everyone is completely full of shit and nobody actually knows what's going on. If you're going to do psychedelics, take any "lesser" psychedelic, they are far easier to integrate. Even DMT, while I haven't done it, doesn't sound like it has the potency of Salvia. I've read hundreds of trip reports from DMT and not a single one mentioned being stuck in infinity or experiencing months or years in another world. Salvia CAN take you there. So can Datura. Stay away from those  "

Please Leo tell me that hell doesn't exist ? 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Someone here

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Please Leo tell me that hell doesn't exist

Oh it exists, if you imagine it.

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Oh it exists, if you imagine it.

 I don't understand in what sense are you defining imagining here. Is it in a sense of law of attraction that what you think a lot creates your reality ?

For example, if you regularly engage with the thought that you’re a failure and feed more attention to it, you’ll start to feel down, worthless, discouraged and perhaps even depressed.

But if you engage with more empowering thoughts, they would boost your confidence and thus trigger a more positive emotional state which will then be reflected in how your body reacts: standing up straight, upbeat and energized.

Or are you meaning as in what me as the godhead imagining?  Who controls this imagining?  And why would I imagine hell for myself If I have enough consciousness?  And who gets to decide what I'm imagining?  Me or me (ego self or God self )?

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Or are you meaning as in what me as the godhead imagining?  Who controls this imagining?  And why would I imagine hell for myself If I have enough consciousness?  And who gets to decide what I'm imagining?  Me or me (ego self or God self )?

I mean the deepest form of imagining which spawns what you call material reality, like the walls of your house.

Infinite consciousness can spawn hell realms as real as the walls of your house. You already know this because you've had nightmares. Now just imagine your nightmares come to life.

Why? Because consciousness is everything imaginable. And hell is imaginable.

[Someone here]

25 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I mean the deepest form of imagining which spawns what you call material reality, like the walls of your house.

Infinite consciousness can spawn hell realms as real as the walls of your house. You already know this because you've had nightmares. Now just imagine your nightmares come to life.

Why? Because consciousness is everything imaginable. And hell is imaginable.

I think Infinite possibilities does not mean everything is possible. Infinite possibilities refers to combinations and permutations. Impossible combinations are impossible. Possible combinations, however, are infinite. Words can be confusing, but the statement essentially means “everything possible is possible, and everything impossible could never occur. 

But then again what's possible is infinite. 

If one can rap oneself around the concept of FOREVER without melting his brain, it really puts things into perspective, especially if you can think about multiverses. Anything you can conceivably imagine has happened, is happening, and will happen an infinite amount of times. So, you name it you got it .that's pretty scary and depressing tbh .infinity is the most scary shit ever .

 

[Proserpina]

As someone who has gone insane,  I can say hell exists

Ovens that smell of human flesh, the smell of death and hell everywhere, food that you can't eat that smell and taste terrible,  tortured groans, growls and strange sounds in the dark, demonic possession

And I'm not even a low consciousness person. If I was, the degree to which I see things,  I'd be in a psychward still.  

 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Proserpina

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Benton said:

@Someone here We can conceive of impossible things. They are possible. Reality is mind.

 

Can you conceive of a square circle? 

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Proserpina said:

As someone who has gone insane,  I can say hell exists

Well that's sad news.

[Proserpina]

Devastating. Especially since anyone can be sent to it. In fact you're more likely if you're awake. You aren't really guilty of anything but inexperience. Enlightened masters tend to be experienced. 

You aren't supposed to be without these things.  But not reactive and constructive.  

Edited June 1, 2022 by Proserpina

[Preety_India]

@Someone here everything is possible. The opposite of everything exists.

 

[Someone here]

@Benton @Preety_India

So are you saying “all possibilities exist”? 

 Let’s agree, shall we, that “all possibilities” is a much smaller set than “all things that could be imagined or conceived”. In other words, things that might happen are constrained by what is possible within the local rules. The rules might differ elsewhere, but they still need to be constrained enough for “elsewhere” (other universes?) to hold together and function within themselves.

The way I’ve heard / read it is “In an infinite universe, or an infinity of universes, anything that is possible will happen.” The same could be said about “infinite time”.

depends on what you mean by ‘impossible’. I would argue that the safe bet is ‘no’. The impossible is not possible in a parallel universe because in order for it to be possible it could never be impossible. Are you going to spontaneously sprout a giant squid from your lower half that will then turn around and eat you? That’s impossible, and it ain’t going to happen in any parallel universe either, unless there’s one where you were tricked into ingesting some microscopic squid that then would develop inside you and do that. So may be it’s not impossible but highly unlikely, even in a parallel universe.

[Proserpina]

Crazy people on the street who have schizophrenia are crazy because they are aware they can be swallowed up into another dimension where hell exists at any point, especially when the meds stop working.  I'm sure that's even happened.  That dimension was bleeding through to mine and I was sure I would be swallowed up.  Which is fine, God doesn't give more than anyone can handle. 

There is evidence but the people have been gaslit and slapped with labels out of fear. 

[Leo Gura]

It's not a matter of possibilities. It's a matter of you imagining it. Your imagination is unlimited.

You have no problem dreaming up nightmares.

[Preety_India]

19 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Benton @Preety_India

So are you saying “all possibilities exist”? 

 Let’s agree, shall we, that “all possibilities” is a much smaller set than “all things that could be imagined or conceived”. In other words, things that might happen are constrained by what is possible within the local rules. The rules might differ elsewhere, but they still need to be constrained enough for “elsewhere” (other universes?) to hold together and function within themselves.

The way I’ve heard / read it is “In an infinite universe, or an infinity of universes, anything that is possible will happen.” The same could be said about “infinite time”.

depends on what you mean by ‘impossible’. I would argue that the safe bet is ‘no’. The impossible is not possible in a parallel universe because in order for it to be possible it could never be impossible. Are you going to spontaneously sprout a giant squid from your lower half that will then turn around and eat you? That’s impossible, and it ain’t going to happen in any parallel universe either, unless there’s one where you were tricked into ingesting some microscopic squid that then would develop inside you and do that. So may be it’s not impossible but highly unlikely, even in a parallel universe.

It's about what you imagine. What you imagine becomes reality. 

If you imagine impossibility, then reality will be impossible. 

If you imagine possibility, then reality will show you what's possible. 

 

[Vibes]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's not a matter of possibilities. It's a matter of you imagining it. Your imagination is unlimited.

You have no problem dreaming up nightmares.

@Leo Gura 

The only reason I can come up with for God to want to imagine the worst possible situation is this: when I feel great, fewer things bother me and I am much more open to new experiences. In God mode, I assume I will be completely open and so free that imagining a hellish realm is not that bad.

[Someone here]

@Preety_India @Leo Gura

Imo If you are talking about human Imagination(thoughts and mental images) then it is not limitless. Our perceptional knowledge sets the limit on our ability to imagine. We just cannot imagine anything whose basic component parts were not perceived through senses.

Imagination is actually a ‘diffusion’ of two or more mind images into one. For example imagine a ‘golden mountain’. Here two separate images i.e. ‘golden’ and ‘mountain’ have been merged into one.

Imagination does not imply impossibility. It is not impossible to make a toy golden mountain. If a rich government takes this challenge, a real golden mountain also can be built. Whatever can be imagined can be drawn on drawing board or can be made into man made product (at least toy) as well. So there is no factor of impossibility in this .

Imagination does have limits. And yet, imagination is infinitely flexible.

The building blocks of imagination are experience, so if you haven't experienced something, you can't use that as the basis of imagination. Imagination is also constrained by experience, so the more you know as a fact that cannot be disproven the more limited imagination may become.

Maybe you are talking about some lofty metaphysical imagination that is beyond the capacity of human imagination.  Idk 

[Proserpina]

41 minutes ago, Vibes said:

@Leo Gura 

The only reason I can come up with for God to want to imagine the worst possible situation is this: when I feel great, fewer things bother me and I am much more open to new experiences. In God mode, I assume I will be completely open and so free that imagining a hellish realm is not that bad.

Not Leo, but I can't think of a reason why I encountered a hellish realm. There was no romantic or nice reason. A slap in the face after you've experienced a literal bleeding through of a heavenly realm and the reasoning for everything being love. 

That was a part of the trauma. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Proserpina

[Leo Gura]

58 minutes ago, Vibes said:

@Leo Gura 

The only reason I can come up with for God to want to imagine the worst possible situation is this: when I feel great, fewer things bother me and I am much more open to new experiences. In God mode, I assume I will be completely open and so free that imagining a hellish realm is not that bad.

There is no worst or bad from God's POV. Hell is as good as heaven.

If you were truly interested in consciousness you would not shy away from exploring hell. Then again, you also wouldn't get stuck and it wouldn't bother you.

[Proserpina]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

There is no worst or bad from God's POV. Hell is as good as heaven.

If you were truly interested in consciousness you would not shy away from exploring hell. Then again, you also wouldn't get stuck and it wouldn't bother you.

That's true, I think. Doesn't feel like it (because you're in hell) but that's what is going on. 

You can become forgetful though and then become stuck. But if you're in that state at all you have the capacity to become unstuck. 

 Which is why those who are psychotic could do with guidance, something we could use in our western civilisation. I had to rely on someone in my imagination for guidance.